prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

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Astara
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prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-15, 07:44

Frequent updates keep resetting search engine. Can this stop? I didn't mind trying out an alternate search engine, but DDGG has a fatal flaw. The tabs I open w/middle click don't open in background - I have to switch to them then press enter in addr bar then wait for results....

I'm used to spawning off multiple pages in background so I don't have to wait but can just switch to the new tab.

If I goto google website, the pages open normally in background. Of all the weird thing to force on people -- how web pages from results open in background. I thought it was a browser setting, but settings related to that are set to normal settings. First time I've seen such an annoying behavior.

Thanks!
Astara

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Potkeny » 2020-02-15, 08:37

Astara wrote:
2020-02-15, 07:44
The tabs I open w/middle click don't open in background - I have to switch to them then press enter in addr bar then wait for results....

I'm used to spawning off multiple pages in background so I don't have to wait but can just switch to the new tab.
If I search for something in DDG, then middle-click the results, they all open in the background, can switch to their loaded tab whenever I want to. (Checked both in my daily profile with addons and a fresh new portable).

Is this the behaviour you want to have, but somehow yours doesn't do?

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Moonchild » 2020-02-15, 11:14

Astara wrote:
2020-02-15, 07:44
Frequent updates keep resetting search engine. Can this stop?
Check your extensions or privacy settings. Pale Moon doesn't touch search engine settings on upgrade.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-15, 23:20

Potkeny wrote:
2020-02-15, 08:37
Astara wrote:
2020-02-15, 07:44
Is this the behaviour you want to have, but somehow yours doesn't do?
Correct. I use middle click and it puts the address in the address bar (of a newly opened background tab) but doesn't do the equivalent of hitting "return". Whereas google does work. I also had google as my search provider until recently and after a recent upgrade, had it changed to DDGG again.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-15, 23:49

Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-15, 11:14
Astara wrote:
2020-02-15, 07:44
Frequent updates keep resetting search engine. Can this stop?
Check your extensions or privacy settings. Pale Moon doesn't touch search engine settings on upgrade.
Extensions? I wouldn't knowingly add an extension that would change my search provider.

In the pale moon directory, there used to be a google.xml in the palemoon subdir "./browser/searchplugins" that was removed in the last update. I wouldn't have thought some extension would be modifying that directory.

FWIW...I'm talking about when I type my search into the address bar and hit enter -- that used to goto Google.
Now it is being redirected to DDGG. I don't see where I should change my search engine. Wasn't search from the address bar called the keyword search as in the keyword.URL below?

The entries in the config-registry (about:config) seem to be ignored:

browser.search.context.loadInBackground;true
browser.search.defaultenginename;Google
browser.search.openintab;true
browser.search.order.1;Google
browser.search.searchEnginesURL;http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&o ... afe=off&q=
browser.search.selectedEngine;Google
browser.search.suggest.enabled;false
browser.search.update;false
keyword.URL;http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&o ... afe=off&q=

So what about the above would be picking DDGG?

Or are you saying that some extension is redirecting my search to DDGG -- that would seem more than a little bit odd to me.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-16, 00:01

Astara wrote:
2020-02-15, 23:49
In the pale moon directory, there used to be a google.xml in the palemoon subdir "./browser/searchplugins" that was removed in the last update.
If you add Google to your personal search engines in your profile it will stick.

What versions did you upgrade from/to?

See:
Google Search to be removed from Pale Moon (Announcement)
Google Search to be removed from Pale Moon (Discussion)

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-16, 19:47

I am not sure of the exact version, but some upgrade this year changed the search behavior (don't understand exactly why).

A year ago it as at PM v26.5.0. That's the one, dunno if you remember, where I said when I used the function to "check for updates", it came back as being up-to-date.

I eventually worked around that using a fresh copy of PM -- but that was many months ago.

I didn't use any added extension for search. FF (and PM) has (or had?) an option to send non-URL looking input on the address bar to a configurable search engine of your choice as managed by the (for lack of a better term) PM/FF "registry" (about:config).

It was no plugin that stopped working, but seemingly the entries I used to use to manage the search from the address bar.

Forgive my ignorance but what the bleep was google trying to dictate to you? How can they have any leverage to control what you design? Obviously I've been using their search from PM in the same old way I've always done it and I don't see how or why google would have a say so in such. Though they seem to be trying to tell everyone how to run their personal computers to best serve google. :problem:

But from everything that was said, some default was changing -- ok, fine. I should be able
to point search at "search-engine-specific-prefix&q=look for this", no?

I understand you want the default to point to DDGG, which I didn't have anything against using on occasion, but I simply put my own search-option xml in the search subdir in case I wanted to use it in the search box, but never really used it as the search string configuration via the 'registry' entries pretty much met my needs.

So now...I guess I want to understand why several people said only a default was changing, but we could switch it back would result in the search config entries no longer working. It sorta feels like something has hijacked my search results. How can it be fixed please?

Tnx,
Astara

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-16, 20:44

Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 19:47
How can it be fixed please?
coffeebreak wrote:
2020-02-16, 00:01
If you add Google to your personal search engines plugins in your profile it will stick.
Don't add Google to the search plugins in the installation directory. That will cause you problems.

Instead, add it to your profile.
Install it from the Search Plugins section of the Pale Moon Add-ons Site by clicking on the entry for Google. This will place it in your profile where it will never be interfered with by any browser update. After installing, just re-select it as default in the normal way. The choice should stick.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-16, 21:38

google-not-supported-byPM.jpg
This certainly doesn't look like "we will support you changing the default" nor
"we aren't prohibiting you from installing a google search plugin".

So I really don't want to add a plugin. I want to know why I can't change it in about:config --
what broke, since plugins seem to be unreliable.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Moonchild » 2020-02-16, 21:48

Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:38
I want to know why I can't change it in about:config
Because that's not how search engine settings are stored.
Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:38
what broke, since plugins seem to be unreliable.
The searchplugins aren't the same as content plugins (despite the name).
Searchplugins are simple files with the necessary information to add a search engine entry to the browser natively. It isn't "code". There is some basic javascript on the page that triggers the necessary browser API to install the search engine using the provided data, and that's all!

I'm not sure why it wouldn't work for you. I just verified in Pale Moon 28.8.2.1 x64: the Google searchplugin works just fine when clicked, and pops up the normal dialog box to add it (and optionally set default in one go).
google1.jpg
Since your installation might be in an unsupported state with the way you manipulated previously, I recommend you try removing Pale Moon (uninstall it), remove any leftover files from c:\program files\ (or the (x86) equivalent) related to Pale Moon, and reinstall it.
If that doesn't help, go to your profile folder (you can easily access it through the troubleshooting Information window), close Pale Moon, and then remove both search.json and search-metadata.json to reset the state of the search engines to a fresh state. Then restart Pale Moon and try installing the Google searchplugin again.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-16, 22:16

Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:48
Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:38
I want to know why I can't change it in about:config
Because that's not how search engine settings are stored.
It used to work unless it was removed. Suppose I wanted to keep the plugin pointed at DDGG, but just
wanted the search from the addr bar to redirect?
Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:48
Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:38
what broke, since plugins seem to be unreliable.
The searchplugins aren't the same as content plugins (despite the name).
Searchplugins are simple files with the necessary information to add a search engine entry to the browser natively.
Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:48
I understand that from examining the existing .xml files in the browser dir.
It isn't "code". There is some basic javascript on the page that triggers the necessary browser API to install the search engine using the provided data, and that's all!
To say XML isn't code really depends on what is processing it and how it is treated.
That's not a problem.

But this is:
Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:48
I'm not sure why it wouldn't work for you. I just verified in Pale Moon 28.8.2.1 x64: the Google searchplugin works just fine when clicked, and pops up the normal dialog box to add it (and optionally set default in one go).
google1.jpg
Being able to specify a search string that is triggered when a non-URL was/is entered in the browser was a more reliable method.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Moonchild » 2020-02-16, 23:00

Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 22:16
Being able to specify a search string that is triggered when a non-URL was/is entered in the browser was a more reliable method.
I'm sorry but that simply isn't enough data for modern search engines to -fully- function. This is why searchplugins exist and why current versions of Pale Moon act the way they do. That will not be changed.

Off-topic:
Please try to quote only relevant parts of posts you are replying to, and try to use proper nesting levels for quotes to prevent confusion about who said what. You can verify before posting by using "preview".
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by moonbat » 2020-02-17, 02:24

Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 22:16

Being able to specify a search string that is triggered when a non-URL was/is entered in the browser was a more reliable method.
More reliable than what? In that case, stick to DDG and use their bangs feature to run site specific searches.

Otherwise if you'd rather use the address bar only for searching and don't want your site specific searches to route through DDG, learn to use keyword searches.
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