27.0.1 & AB latitude

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Roger Fink

27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Roger Fink » 2016-11-29, 03:51

Hello, I've just updated to 27.0.1, but I am going to revert back to the previous version. The newer version requires an upgrade to AB Latitude and once that is installed, the browser takes a very long time to open up. When I disable ABL, things are back to normal and everything is fine.

Part of the problem may be at this end - I'm running an old ThinkPad T60p with an early dual core processor. Perhaps those with faster computers are having better luck.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by lyceus » 2016-11-29, 05:23

Roger Fink wrote:Hello, I've just updated to 27.0.1, but I am going to revert back to the previous version. The newer version requires an upgrade to AB Latitude and once that is installed, the browser takes a very long time to open up. When I disable ABL, things are back to normal and everything is fine.

Part of the problem may be at this end - I'm running an old ThinkPad T60p with an early dual core processor. Perhaps those with faster computers are having better luck.
Hello!

I think that maybe the new ABL needs a clean install, please clean your cache/history/cookies and update the lists of ABL. I hope this can speed up the process of starting Pale Moon!

Lyceus

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by ron_1 » 2016-11-29, 23:55

I know I'm not explaining this quite right, but that's the way 3.5 works. Something to do with loading all the filters before the browser loads. I'm sure Tobin can explain it better than me. (This lag is really pronounced with older computers; I know from experience.)

EDIT:
MC explains it in passing here: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=10414&p=72210#p72205

Roger Fink

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Roger Fink » 2016-11-30, 03:05

Thanks for the three replies to my post, including especially the one that was lost when I deleted my initial follow-up post, which was not a good move.

But to the matter at hand - even acknowledging that my old hardware has something to do with the delay, I still think having the ABL delay occur after the launch is the better solution. If the design of the browser and add-ons were a unified effort from a single source (which I realize is impossible), the browser launch delay would never have been seriously considered IMO. The way it is now suggests that the browser is subordinate to the extension. It also undermines the tradition of extensive backward compatibility which I think is a great feature of this browser. I'm glad the developer feels he has solved his problem, but he's done it at my expense.

I hope there is an upgrade to ABL that fixes this. In the meantime I'm back to 26.5.0, since at the moment it is providing a much better overall browsing-with-ABL experience.

Slightly off topic, but the only reason I was able to revert successfully was because I had saved an older version of ABL (as I recall Win-7 System Restore kept the ABL upgrade). Since this kind of situation arises from time to time, I'd like to suggest keeping the next-to-last version of all extensions available for download.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Jottum » 2016-11-30, 07:20

lobocursor wrote:
Roger Fink wrote:Hello, I've just updated to 27.0.1, but I am going to revert back to the previous version. The newer version requires an upgrade to AB Latitude and once that is installed, the browser takes a very long time to open up. When I disable ABL, things are back to normal and everything is fine.

Part of the problem may be at this end - I'm running an old ThinkPad T60p with an early dual core processor. Perhaps those with faster computers are having better luck.
Hello!

I think that maybe the new ABL needs a clean install, please clean your cache/history/cookies and update the lists of ABL. I hope this can speed up the process of starting Pale Moon!

Lyceus
Hi,

Thanks for this, unfortunately it didn't solve the problem for me. Since installing version 27 (27.01 now) Pale Moon is slow (I mean sloooow :) ) at start up. Since there's no splash screen, one has no idea if Pale Moon is really starting or not. Compared to version 26 it takes about three times longer to load. Although a bit annoying, I can live with it. If this is a common experience, others (new users) might not be so understanding.

For the record, both on my Windows 7 and Kubuntu machine the behavior is the same.

Edit: Timed startup, from clicking the icon to interface show: 16 seconds.

HTH
Jottum
Last edited by Jottum on 2016-11-30, 09:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Al6bus » 2016-11-30, 08:19

Roger Fink wrote:the browser takes a very long time to open up.
+1
with abl 3.0.3.1 2sec to browser start + 1 sec to unfreeze )) feels all loads sync
with abl 3.5 waiting....nothing happened.................starrrtttt (4-5sec) feels first loads only filter subscription, only then begins to load the browser itself :crazy:
its really annoying

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We hope for e10s(multiprocessing) or another alternative implementation :)

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Moonchild » 2016-11-30, 10:13

There are 2 approaches to this problem, and there are going to be two groups of people, either in favor of one or the other:
  1. ABL 3.0 method, which loads the filter subscriptions after the browser has started and will start filtering "whenever it's ready". This will leave the browser open to load and display ads that you would normally block until it decides its done loading and setting up the filters.
  2. ABL 3.5 method, which loads your filter subscriptions and filters upon browser startup. This prevents any loading and display (and connections to ad servers) for blocked content, but obviously will delay the browser's start until it is done setting up its rules.
Even in the land of the original Adblock Plus, people asked for method 2 when the dev changed the approach to be method 1.

I clearly understand that if you close and re-open the browser regularly, that this delay can become annoying, and the only workaround I can suggest at this point is to use a lighter-weight blocker like µblock.

I'm hoping Tobin can find the time to re-visit ABL 3.0 to make it compatible with Pale Moon v27, or maybe someone else can chip in and see if they can help out. I've not been involved with the development of either version of ABL so I can't really help here.
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KNTRO

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by KNTRO » 2016-11-30, 12:22

Moonchild wrote:
  1. ABL 3.0 method, which loads the filter subscriptions after the browser has started and will start filtering "whenever it's ready". This will leave the browser open to load and display ads that you would normally block until it decides its done loading and setting up the filters.
  2. ABL 3.5 method, which loads your filter subscriptions and filters upon browser startup. This prevents any loading and display (and connections to ad servers) for blocked content, but obviously will delay the browser's start until it is done setting up its rules.
Hey, Moonchild, thanks a lot for this explanation! It's now too much easier to understand how the old and the new version of ABL work.

Personally, since I'm running both Pale Moon 26.5.0 & Pale Moon Portable 27.0.1 from a SSD, the difference of startup times is really, really minimal. In the case of Pale Moon 26.5.0 is nuts! :clap:

So, after your explanation, I understand the ABL 3.5's method is better for privacy but I can't imagine the startup timing impact over traditional HDDs… :shock: I really hope Tobin can significantly enhance ABL in the near future.

Again, thanks a lot for this exposition!

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Jottum » 2016-11-30, 13:03

Moonchild wrote:There are 2 approaches to this problem, and there are going to be two groups of people, either in favor of one or the other:
  1. ABL 3.0 method, which loads the filter subscriptions after the browser has started and will start filtering "whenever it's ready". This will leave the browser open to load and display ads that you would normally block until it decides its done loading and setting up the filters.
  2. ABL 3.5 method, which loads your filter subscriptions and filters upon browser startup. This prevents any loading and display (and connections to ad servers) for blocked content, but obviously will delay the browser's start until it is done setting up its rules.
Even in the land of the original Adblock Plus, people asked for method 2 when the dev changed the approach to be method 1.

I clearly understand that if you close and re-open the browser regularly, that this delay can become annoying, and the only workaround I can suggest at this point is to use a lighter-weight blocker like µblock.

I'm hoping Tobin can find the time to re-visit ABL 3.0 to make it compatible with Pale Moon v27, or maybe someone else can chip in and see if they can help out. I've not been involved with the development of either version of ABL so I can't really help here.
Thanks for the explanation, I can live with it. You could consider a splash screen, at least people see what's going on and have the assurance Pale Moon is indeed loading. Paint Shop Pro comes to mind, it takes quite some time to load and the splash tells you what it's loading.

All that said, thank you very much for you hard work on this wonderful browser I use every day.

Jottum

half-moon

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by half-moon » 2016-11-30, 13:04

KNTRO wrote: but I can't imagine the startup timing impact over traditional HDDs…
Off-topic:
Are you implying HDDs are slow?

KNTRO

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by KNTRO » 2016-11-30, 13:16

Off-topic:
half-moon wrote:Are you implying HDDs are slow?
Nop. I'm just saying any piece of software works slower on a traditional HDD than with a SSD. It's not a secret.

Can you get these times on a HDD?

Just for the records: I still use traditional HDDs. Right now I have 2 HDDs Seagate —3TB each— and I'm gonna grab another Seagate HDD —4TB— soon. But I use them for storage only, not for OS nor for programs.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by lyceus » 2016-12-01, 03:05

Jottum wrote:Thanks for this, unfortunately it didn't solve the problem for me. Since installing version 27 (27.01 now) Pale Moon is slow (I mean sloooow :) ) at start up. Since there's no splash screen, one has no idea if Pale Moon is really starting or not. Compared to version 26 it takes about three times longer to load. Although a bit annoying, I can live with it. If this is a common experience, others (new users) might not be so understanding.

For the record, both on my Windows 7 and Kubuntu machine the behavior is the same.

Edit: Timed startup, from clicking the icon to interface show: 16 seconds.

HTH
Jottum
Well I did the jump to 27.0.1 myself and I found something interesting:

1. I got installed both versions 3.0 and 3.5 at once and they mess each other work.
2. My lists got corrupted.
3. I couldn't add elements to my block list

The solution I found was:

1. Uninstall 3.0 then reboot
2. Uninstall 3.5 then reboot
3. Disable ADB element hiding add-on then reboot
4. Clear cache just in case
5. Install 3.5 with EasyList then reboot
6. Enable ADB element hiding add-on then reboot

Things seem back to normal so far. I hope this works.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Jottum » 2016-12-01, 08:41

lobocursor wrote:Well I did the jump to 27.0.1 myself and I found something interesting:

1. I got installed both versions 3.0 and 3.5 at once and they mess each other work.
2. My lists got corrupted.
3. I couldn't add elements to my block list

The solution I found was:

1. Uninstall 3.0 then reboot
2. Uninstall 3.5 then reboot
3. Disable ADB element hiding add-on then reboot
4. Clear cache just in case
5. Install 3.5 with EasyList then reboot
6. Enable ADB element hiding add-on then reboot

Things seem back to normal so far. I hope this works.
Thank you for that lobocursor, indeed one has to remove version 3.0 before installing 3.5. I've followed your instructions and unfortunately all it proved is that it is 100% sure ABL is the culprit (Not that I doubted that). Without it Pale Moon starts in 2 seconds ­ with it - after the uninstall/reboot - it's back to 16 seconds after reinstalling ABL on my machine.

Other then the delay ABL is causing, I'm very pleased with version 27.01, it seems to be overall faster than 26.

Jottum

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Skaendo » 2016-12-02, 00:21

Switch to uBlock Origin. I did, problem solved.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by JodyThornton » 2016-12-02, 00:26

I was going to say that same thing. uBlock Origin works with Aplomb (except on some Facebook groups' photo galleries there is a weird page reloading issue). But otherwise it works great!!!

Roger Fink

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Roger Fink » 2016-12-02, 16:57

Since I've decided for the present not to upgrade to PM 27.*, can anyone suggest a way to download ABL 3.0.3.1? I'm currently using 3.0.2, which I had stored on my computer.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by coffeebreak » 2016-12-02, 17:17

PM extensions archive: ftp://archive:get@ftp2.palemoon.org/extensions/
(see also post by Moonchild here)

Roger Fink

Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Roger Fink » 2016-12-02, 17:48

Thanks Coffeebreak. Got it bookmarked now.

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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by Moonchild » 2016-12-02, 18:55

I'm quickly getting frustrated with the startup delay with ABL 3.5 as well (and that's on my dev machine...) but I don't know enough about ABL or bootstrapped extensions to do anything about it.

I'm hoping someone can either:
  • Look at ABL 3.0 and make it compatible with Pale Moon 27, OR
  • Create a fresh fork off of ABP 2.8.2 which should work with our platform (being it states that it works with Firefox/Fennec 38.0 and above) -- since it's GPL3 licensed, this should be no problem.
EDIT: never mind, I think I already figured it out. I can revive 3.0 in a v27 compatible way, myself.
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Re: 27.0.1 & AB latitude

Post by ron_1 » 2016-12-02, 19:52

Moonchild wrote:
I can revive 3.0 in a v27 compatible way, myself.
Not to be pushy, but how soon will we see this available?

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