Mozilla deprecates NPAPI / Pale Moon will keep NPAPI Thread

General discussion and compatibility support about browser plug-ins.
(e.g. Adobe Flash, Java plugin, authentication plugins, Unity)

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Mozilla deprecates NPAPI / Pale Moon will keep NPAPI Thread

Unread post by back2themoon » 2015-10-08, 23:42

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-10-08, 23:58

The Pale Moon browser will continue to support any NPAPI Plugin regardless of MozCo's decisions on what Firefox does.

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by LimboSlam » 2015-10-08, 23:59

What! WOW!

I mean yeah I knew this was coming, but this is pretty stupid! Well...... looks like my school is in trouble and others if they switched thinking they aren't Chrome (Chrome did this a couple moths back).
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by megaman » 2015-10-09, 00:06

I would go without the pesky plugins, they state that plugins also cause performance issues. And having to go hunting them down is also a pain, to play/do something we like.
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by LimboSlam » 2015-10-09, 00:55

Forever, will this be supported even when websites make the transition to support these new technology's browsers are pushing towards them?

As long as possible?
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by loxodont » 2015-10-09, 02:45

I've always disabled the unwanted plugins, installed by Google Earth and others.

What I technically don't understand, if Mozilla says they want to get rid of NPAPI, because of performance, does it make much sense to keep it in (code-wise?) for just the Adobe flash plugin?
To me it sounds like 'we remove it, but we keep it'. No :?:

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by Omitooshi » 2015-10-09, 05:02

Is there anything that they will not deprecate?

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-10-09, 10:26

Conflicting information:
In the rare cases where a site needs to extend Web technologies, the recommended solution is to develop the additional features as a Firefox add-on.
Firefox add-ons are being deprecated. In addition, a "WebExtension" that they are moving towards will not be able to replace native plugin code because those are restricted to whatever WebExtension API is available.

So what are they actually saying?
"If you need the browser to do something for your plugin our Web API doesn't support, then you should invest time and effort into something that we won't be supporting for much longer either. Oh wait, that's not our problem. Just fold already."

Also, I find it funny that they mention stability issues. That's what we have OOPP for. And making an exception for the biggest cause of instability there is: Flash. I've never, in my life had any other NPAPI plugin crash on me, that I recall. Performance? How can JS in WebAPIs be more performant than native compiled code? Seriously.
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-10-09, 12:36

The only other plugin besides Flash that has given me trouble in the history of NPAPI was Acrobat Reader (Yes they renamed it to Adobe Reader.. shut up.. I tend to call things what they were originally called).. Given Adobe also makes that.. What a shock.. As an aside, back when Flash was still being made by Macromedia it did seem much more stable..

The entire internet let alone technology in general has NO idea or plan on what it is going to do day to day.. I suggest having a fall back position when technology fails us.. Like gardening! That is my plan anyway.

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-10-09, 13:40

Off-topic:
Matt A Tobin wrote:I suggest having a fall back position when technology fails us.. Like gardening! That is my plan anyway.
Considering I have a "black" thumb, that won't work for me. I can always fall back on translations or doing art, or maybe even something completely different like helping out in a dog shelter! Who knows. Suggestions? ;-)
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by Tharn » 2015-10-09, 17:21

NPAPI has a lot of frivolous plugins that present a security nightmare, even from established vendors and companies. But it also has a few plugins that are essential for some folks. Flash, Java, even Silverlight. For example, part of my job involves a web interface that's programmed in Flash. I think it's not necessarily a bad idea to want to set the bar higher for plugins, but this reeks of yet another "we're doing Chrome, guys" instead of something more constructive.

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by megaman » 2015-10-09, 17:36

Tharn wrote:NPAPI has a lot of frivolous plugins that present a security nightmare, even from established vendors and companies. But it also has a few plugins that are essential for some folks. Flash, Java, even Silverlight. For example, part of my job involves a web interface that's programmed in Flash. I think it's not necessarily a bad idea to want to set the bar higher for plugins, but this reeks of yet another "we're doing Chrome, guys" instead of something more constructive.
I agree with you, I'm not okay with the Chromification.
Yet, Flash is heavy, at least on Palemoon in my laptop. Is Edge using the ActiveX? Edge is also giving me a struggle on watching streams. IE11 doesn't hog it, down. (When the stream ends, Flash is done, and the chat of the stream performs as it should.)
HTML5 is not giving this horror, so Flash has to go or needs to be made light-weight. (I tried Flash version 13ESR, and it doesn't make a difference. I tried to disable Flash's Hardware Acceleration and still struggling.)
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by loxodont » 2015-10-09, 19:47

Matt A Tobin wrote:The only other plugin besides Flash that has given me trouble in the history of NPAPI was Acrobat Reader
For basic functionality PDF-XchangeViewer's optional plugin has been a good Adobe Reader replacement for me, though I haven't used it for a longer time now and not in newer PM 25.+ versions.
Matt A Tobin wrote:I tend to call things what they were originally called
This isn't one of your best ideas; think of Pale Moon. I would prefer to keep that name even if FF goes finally up in the edge and Chrome-a-like smoke and it's name will be history or free for sale.

It's true, internet technology is slowly moving to the dark side; gardening could be a nice plan, sure, but still I think there'll always be a need for optimized light sabers and such. Also, I'm not good at plants.
Anyway, I'm old and will not see a Death Star be finished in my time, I guess not even the end of the internet.
If I'm wrong, I would suggest cat shelters, as I can tell they are a pleasure, even if you get nothing paid :)

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by Tharn » 2015-10-09, 20:27

Off-topic:
It's an interesting and certainly astute point that technology may be running away with us, and our good sense how to use it. Aldous Huxley has spoken of this 50 years ago (!), about the power of something as simple as radio programmes and the emerging TV market to create opinion and to become a drug. You think it got any better since then? If you want to do something good for yourself, besides planning for a life without technology - stop watching TV. Discontinue newspaper subscriptions and make it a point not to carry your smartphone everywhere. And remember - you're not being fed the truth. You're being fed a position. Giving it to you straight would be fatal. Whew, what a screeching off-topic that turned out to be. ;)

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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by LimboSlam » 2015-10-09, 20:44

Ok, I got my answer for the Unity Web Player plugin, which I use because I'm a tutor for the Special ED students and this is greatly needed for certain videos/audio and games on those websites that call for it, this is part of a reward system I use for them.

Unity Blog wrote:.......all Web Player content will still be playable in browsers that support NPAPI plugins. Unity will still allow downloading of the Unity 5.3 Web Player to run any existing content. Note that it will be necessary to use either a browser which still supports NPAPI or on older version of a browser released before NPAPI support was dropped. Additionally, Web Player builds will no longer be maintained so it will be necessary for us to make end users aware of the potential security risks. Unity deeply understands the importance and historical relevance of Web Player powered games and keeping this back catalogue of games playable is something we care about. We have formed a working group to investigate alternative technical solutions and will update the community as we progress.......



I hope this could be done for all NPAPI plugins.
With Pale Moon by my side, surfing the web is quite enjoyable and takes my headaches away! :)
God is not punishing you, He is preparing you. Trust His plan, not your pain.#‎TrentShelton #‎RehabTime

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NPAPI Support

Unread post by lewisje » 2015-10-09, 21:06

I just read that Mozilla plans to remove NPAPI support (except for Flash) by the end of next year: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases ... n-firefox/

Judging by this calendar, the specific release of Firefox by which most NPAPI plugins will be unavailable is 52 (also, conveniently, the ESR release after the upcoming one): https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar

Also, when 64-bit Firefox is released by the end of this year (either 42 or 43), it will have this similarly restricted NPAPI support, and if Mozilla develops Shumway (HTML5-based SWF player, an analogue to PDF.js) well enough, it could kill off NPAPI altogether.

Does Pale Moon plan to stop supporting NPAPI plugins?

lewisje

Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by lewisje » 2015-10-09, 21:10

I just posted a thread asking about this very issue, but I'm fine if it isn't approved.
Matt A Tobin wrote:Yes they renamed it to Adobe Reader.. shut up.. I tend to call things what they were originally called
Actually, the latest version of Reader for Windows 7+ and OS X (not Linux) is "Adobe Acrobat Reader DC" so they went back to the old name.

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Re: NPAPI Support

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-10-09, 23:35

lewisje wrote:Does Pale Moon plan to stop supporting NPAPI plugins?
No.

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Re: NPAPI Support

Unread post by LimboSlam » 2015-10-10, 00:06

Moonchild wrote:
lewisje wrote:Does Pale Moon plan to stop supporting NPAPI plugins?
No.

Ok yes this for now, but how about in the long run? Say 2-3 years from now?
With Pale Moon by my side, surfing the web is quite enjoyable and takes my headaches away! :)
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Re: Mozilla announces the end of NPAPI plugins in Firefox

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-10-10, 00:12

There is no advantage to us to remove NPAPI.. In fact it would be work. It would also be work to restrict NPAPI to specific plugins on a code level. Again, why would we remove this?

2-3 years down the road? We would still be capable of running NPAPI.. Why wouldn't we be..

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