Hatred At Mozilla Forums

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JodyThornton
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Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by JodyThornton » 2014-08-24, 16:43

Look at the last two posts. I felt that I was clear, and not disruptive in the least bit whatsoever.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... #p13731197

Loud Noise (appropriate name) proceeds to call me a whiner, and locks the thread. What is it that he and his cronies afraid of? What is going on there? What did Moonchild ever do wrong to Mozilla? Sorry, but I hate when people develop an agenda.

Well in another thread, where I brought up Pale Moon, I gave those jerks a peace of my mind and walked away. I just don't understand it at all.

Anyway, I'm glad for Pale Moon, and hope for it's bright future.
Last edited by JodyThornton on 2014-08-24, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Moonchild » 2014-08-24, 17:00

Unfortunately, it seems to be the modus operandi for staff on that forum. You're not the first getting stung over there, and probably won't be the last.

Sad as it is there seems to be a disproportionate amount of hatred, user-bashing and abuse of moderation powers when it comes to alternative browsers based on Mozilla code and in particular Pale Moon. As already seen in some other threads on this here forum, MozillaZine apparently operates on a "snipe and bait" policy (admitted by the mentioned moderator, even) whenever anyone mentions Pale Moon, because they seem to be convinced that anyone going there and posting there mentioning the browser is "sent there" with malintent.

I'm afraid all that can be done about it is simply not go there and save yourself the waste of breath, negativity, personal attacks and general bad taste in your mouth from your visit. Maybe someday they will see the light that MozillaZine is supposed to be for "all things Mozilla", including actual forks of Firefox, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Parsifal » 2014-08-24, 17:26

As far as I remember, even a long time before Pale Moon, the mood, that is the staff's and moderator's moods have always been tangent to elementary politeness once the topic was beyond praise for their chapel. Exercising a critical approach (in good or bad), being out of the row or coming with questions they consider as childish irritated more than one members of the staff. They always seem upset. A strange place, I'd say as it is now not worthy of Mozilla, of Mozilla as it once was. Maybe have they always anticipated on what Mozilla has become. I'm not sure it is an anti mozilla fork, an anti Pale Moon phobia, stricto sensus. In French we would say there is a "culture d'entreprise" problem (don't know how to translate that, it means a company's staff state of mind, a company's culture). A pity because, individually, they may be all charming, one never knows and is not likely to ever know if they keep on moaning the way they too often do.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Night Wing » 2014-08-25, 00:11

JodyThornton wrote:Look at the last two posts. I felt that I was clear, and not disruptive in the least bit whatsoever.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... #p13731197

Loud Noise (appropriate name) proceeds to call me a whiner, and locks the thread. What is it that he and his cronies afraid of? What is going on there? What did Moonchild ever do wrong to Mozilla? Sorry, but I hate when people develop an agenda.

Well in another thread, where I brought up Pale Moon, I gave those jerks a peace of my mind and walked away. I just don't understand it at all.

Anyway, I'm glad for Pale Moon, and hope for it's bright future.
The person he was referring to as another Pale Moon fanbois was "me". A Firefox user said Pale Moon did not work with the new Google Maps and I politely pointed out Pale Moon does work in the new Google Maps. LoudNoise removed my post within 10 minutes of time so the same MISINFORMATION is still in that topic forum. He also sent me a private message which he pointed out I could be banned.

People like LoudNoise, in my opinion, are nothing more than the usual "controlling individuals" who love "power" and the feeling it gives them. I pay no attention to these types of people.
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by lyceus » 2014-08-25, 02:16

Just my 0.02 :mrgreen:

MozillaZine only promotes Firefox since they are developing another "son": FirefoxOS for phones. So if you come there and say to people that there are other options beyond the agenda of the "graduated web browser that now is an OS for your phone", they will kick you out ASAP. They already mark their road plan and won't change that since there is a better cake in mobile OS than just a half baked browser like Firefox is now.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Night Wing » 2014-08-25, 02:39

Mozilla's Firefox browser has been slowly losing market share to Google's Chrome browser on the Desktop.

I seriously doubt Mozilla's new or developing FirefoxOS for mobile will hardly make a dent against Google's Android mobile market share. Android is too well established and Google has much deeper pockets when it comes to money advertising.

In other words money wise, Mozilla is now the 80 pound chimpanzee going against Google which is now the 800 pound gorilla.
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Trippynet » 2014-08-25, 08:25

Unfortunately, it's a familiar story. The second you mention something that isn't Firefox or Seamonkey (even generally and in passing), you will be pounced upon, accused of being some sort of fanatical, trolling fanboy and the thread will be promptly locked up (usually with a few unpleasant insults thrown in for good measure). Doesn't matter how it happens, the context or anything else. The reaction is always the same.

Pointing out that the Mozilla code is open source and that 3rd party builds/forks are therefore encouraged by Mozilla doesn't seem to register with them. It's not official Firefox, so you are the enemy in their eyes. Not much you can do except shake your head sadly, roll your eyes and leave them to it.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Parsifal » 2014-08-25, 08:38

You can also change your UserAgent string specifically for forums.mozillazine.org to that of Firefox latest whatever it is, say all the good you can lye about Firefox, and post a "question regarding a friend who didn't understand anything about life since he installed a Firefox fork but whom you'd wish to help until he understands one day that the truth is in Firefox and Firefox only". Without insisting too heavily of course. Maybe you'll get information that way, then be hired in a whatever intelligence service. It's already been done, it still occurs, join the band!

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2014-08-25, 08:43

Parsifal wrote:You can also change your UserAgent string specifically for forums.mozillazine.org to that of Firefox latest whatever it is, say all the good you can lye about Firefox, and post a "question regarding a friend who didn't understand anything about life since he installed a Firefox fork but whom you'd wish to help until he understands one day that the truth is in Firefox and Firefox only". Without insisting too heavily of course. Maybe you'll get information that way, then be hired in a whatever intelligence service. It's already been done, it still occurs, join the band!
I changed my per-site user agent to "Mozilla/4.79 [en] (Win95; N)".. Think of that what you will 8-)
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Parsifal » 2014-08-25, 08:53

Matt A Tobin wrote:I changed my per-site user agent to "Mozilla/4.79 [en] (Win95; N)".. Think of that what you will 8-)
I think you're playing with your life. Never be excessively frank :)

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Trippynet » 2014-08-25, 08:55

I've posted with this one before now:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; IRIX64 IP28; en-US; rv:1.9.0.19) Gecko/2013020113 Firefox/3.0.19
To make it more interesting, yes that's a genuine UA from one of my computers :)

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by buggy » 2014-08-25, 09:18

Trippynet wrote:Not much you can do except shake your head sadly, roll your eyes and leave them to it.
Wonder how it is possible to hear noise when you are alone???
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Jonguy30 » 2014-08-25, 10:12

It's always been like this over there. And I think they also know the UA trick by now. I've seen them talking about it there.

I think it will be more interesting to hear their reaction about Pale Moon 25. They will be quite surprised when Pale Moon still has the classic UI and all the classic firefox features. No doubt the response will be "They won't be able to maintain it for long 'because reasons/angry wall of text/it's not as simple as changing the GUID' (yes, they've said that).

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Moonchild » 2014-08-25, 10:41

They don't know the first thing about the Pale Moon code base. Because, plainly put, they never looked at it. So they can assume whatever they want about pale Moon 25 but it will most likely be very far from the truth unless they actually do check out the source code and see the work on it (since way before v24, by the way)
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Night Wing » 2014-08-25, 11:34

Parsifal wrote:You can also change your UserAgent string specifically for forums.mozillazine.org to that of Firefox latest whatever it is, say all the good you can lye about Firefox, and post a "question regarding a friend who didn't understand anything about life since he installed a Firefox fork but whom you'd wish to help until he understands one day that the truth is in Firefox and Firefox only". Without insisting too heavily of course. Maybe you'll get information that way, then be hired in a whatever intelligence service. It's already been done, it still occurs, join the band!
I'm not going to change my user agent to specifically placate Mozillazine and the obnoxious types on there which includes LoudNoise. And I don't give a damn they don't like any user who prefers Pale Moon or any other browser over Firefox.

I only visit Mozillazine for one thing and one thing "only". As of right now, Firefox 24.7.0 ESR is my backup browser to default Pale Moon so I visit Mozillazine to look for info on the constant changes which happen to Firefox every 6 weeks for people who do not use the ESR versions of Firefox. Many of these changes, I do not care for them and this is been happenng (for me) since Firefox 12. When Mozilla does away with the non Australis 24 ESR versions and only offer the Australis 31 ESR versions, Firefox will "not" be my backup browser to Pale Moon anymore. I think this is going to happen around Sept 2nd.

In Windows 7, for me the backup browser will be Internet Explorer unless I can find an alternative browser. Since there is no Internet Explorer for linux Mint, this is why I need to "get off my duff" and test out SlimBoat in both Windows and linux.

At least on the Pale Moon site, anyone can mention any other browser be it Firefox, Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome, Comodo Dragon, Iron, Cool Novo, etc; "without" any user on here bashing anyone for the browser they use or the differences when compared against Pale Moon.
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by JodyThornton » 2014-08-25, 14:37

Night Wing wrote:The person he was referring to as another Pale Moon fanbois was "me". A Firefox user said Pale Moon did not work with the new Google Maps and I politely pointed out Pale Moon does work in the new Google Maps. LoudNoise removed my post within 10 minutes of time so the same MISINFORMATION is still in that topic forum. He also sent me a private message which he pointed out I could be banned.

People like LoudNoise, in my opinion, are nothing more than the usual "controlling individuals" who love "power" and the feeling it gives them. I pay no attention to these types of people.
Haaaaaa! I have since received a ban notice too. Look familiar?

Board warning issued

Sent: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:51 pm
From: LoudNoise
To: JodyThornton
The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.

This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=42&p=13731695#p13731695 .
In particular, faq.php?mode=rules#f4r1 . This is a free warning, just to let you know that you have violated the rules. The second will earn you a week off. The third is a total ban from the forum.

We do help folks with problems with Palemoon and other third party builds. As noted, we either help them or direct them to where they can get help. We have a problem with a small number of Palemoon users who like to cause trouble. The thread you mentioned in this post was locked because A) The question from the OP was answered and B) You were trying, like most folks we have a problem here, to turn a simple question into an off topic rant about how you folks are treated badly. Off topic rants will get locked ASAP, just like this one did.


Now the thread in question was ABOUT Pale Moon which just makes this more hilarious. To be fair, I really let off about him on a SeaMonkey thread (Edit: that shows me that they must be REALLY looking for stuff to catch you with). Another one of his minions decided to make a big deal about my mentioning Pale Moon (though I was being tongue and cheek by stating it was the browser we weren't supposed to talk about). I did utter obscenities, and I was and am sorry, but I was so exhausted by Loud Noise's treatment of other posters (so I knew I had the warning coming.)

Now how does Mozilla and MozillaZine relate? Are they the same "company"? What gives here? Loud Noise's love of power seems a bit on the borderline of sickness.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Night Wing » 2014-08-25, 16:18

@Jody Thornton

Yes, I received the same standard private canned message forum he probably sends out to many users everyday on a daily basis.

And you are correct. The original topic was titled Pale Moon until he split it off. Just goes to show how biased he is against Pale Moon. The man must eat "lemons for breakfast everyday" since he has such a sour disposition. No wonder Mozilla is not affiliated with Mozillazine and does not want to be associated with Mozillazine. From other people who are not on the Pale Moon site, since they are Firefox users, they tell me they no longer visit Mozillazine because of the rudeness over there by that bunch.
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Jonguy30 » 2014-08-25, 16:44

Moonchild wrote:They don't know the first thing about the Pale Moon code base. Because, plainly put, they never looked at it. So they can assume whatever they want about pale Moon 25 but it will most likely be very far from the truth unless they actually do check out the source code and see the work on it (since way before v24, by the way)
The mozillazine moderator in one thread said he had "looked at" the pale moon source code. He said PM is a "minor rebuild" and "not much different from firefox" and "removed features". Even that isn't true anymore since the release of "Sumozi".

I don't believe he he has ever looked at the code, since he's still saying these things. I also don't think he realizes what backporting is. Pale Moon has every relevant feature and security fix from the newest firefox, it's not the same as 24 ESR, nor will it be based on 31 ESR either.

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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Moonchild » 2014-08-25, 19:55

I tend to keep a repo setup with a basic comparison between Pale Moon and Firefox 24 ESR (which is also what I use to pull sec changes). if they want to argue that it's a minor rebuild then they can chew on some stats: 355 files modified, 1896 files removed and 350 new files added (on a base comparison with the current 24.7 release, not counting untracked files). Also they can chew on the feature table you're familiar with that doesn't fall out of the sky by itself either ;)
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Re: Hatred At Mozilla Forums

Post by Trippynet » 2014-08-25, 20:26

The interesting aspect is that they've effectively invented a problem that didn't really exist. Pale Moon is one of of the longest running, best known and most well developed Firefox forks around. It's also a fork which (crucially) has made a pledge to diverge from current FF development by avoiding Australis, hence it's inevitable that it will appear from time to time in Mozilla/Firefox related conversation on their boards - especially when people mention distaste/disapproval with Australis.

The response of a certain bunch of regulars was to see it as a threat and to use every possible FUD tactic going to try and dissuade people from switching to it. They also began to increasingly see any positive mention of PM as an act of trolling, even when it was just brought up in idle conversation. As a result of their excessive, heavy handed and unpleasant attitude towards Pale Moon, this resulted in some people sticking up for PM and pointing out the various holes in their arguments (this is admittedly where I originally came in as far as they're concerned).

Their response to me criticising their general attitude and pointing out holes in their arguments was just to label me as some sort of fanatical fanboy/troll, and they're currently applying the same label to anyone else that dares to mention Pale Moon in any sort of positive way, using justification that "we've had lots of problems with trolls".

In actual fact if you look back, they've had hardly any problems at all. I've seen virtually no sign whatsoever of anyone stupidly trolling, baiting or blindly promoting. PM has received occasional positive mentions because it's a simple and stable fix to a well-known Firefox design "issue" and they have twisted this in their minds into some sort of trolling siege. Any other debates that have sprung up have been entirely as a result of their unpleasant and heavy-handed attitude to such posts.

Incidentally, there's no point in going there or saying anything to them. It's impossible to argue with them or disagree with them, because as soon as you do, you're just immediately labelled as another fanatical troll for them to ridicule. They are so single-mindedly obsessed with their views on this that they are the very fanatics they accuse certain PM users of being. I've given up commenting on such topics there as they're just not worth the effort and the outcome is always the same.

As a final parting note, I'd again like to stress that this is not levelled at all mozillaZine users, just a specific (and unfortunately vocal) group of them. Believe it or not, I have managed occasional civilised conversations with others on there...

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