[Vent] Being Pale Moon user is frustrating

[UCyborg]

Speaking of frustrations, it appears to me with recent updates, 32-bit version took notable hit in stability. While they're talking about crashing bugs in 33.9.1, in my use, it's only the 32-bit version that is randomly crashing, and that's with light use, I realize it shouldn't be pushed too hard.

I also got them on another computer with 32-bit version (where I normally use 64-bit version). Same old sites basically.

[Mæstro]

Instability in the 32-bit version should be reported in the Browser Support forum with as much information about conditions which cause crashing, even if they are probabilistic. (It was certainly a reportable bug when Windows Me could crash while idling on desktop!) Unlike predatory SNS, a support group like here would actually welcome your feedback in the hope that we can squash these bugs.

[UCyborg]

They could be related to known bugs.

[MasterSlenderTR]

It's what it is. Not enough developers.

That's why I suggested (optionally) using WebView2 for user selected sites.
You don't even have to install WebView2, you can use the Fixed version.

Download the latest Fixed version (x64, not arm64): https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/m ... H#download

Extract that cab file to (for example) C:\Microsoft.WebView2.FixedVersionRuntime.142.0.3595.94.x64, rename it to C:\WebView2

Add this environment variable and that's it.

Code: Select all

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Environment]
"WEBVIEW2_BROWSER_EXECUTABLE_FOLDER"="C:\\WebView2"

I'd recommend this PM extension over WebView2: https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/subwebview/

[Navigator]

Am I missing something? Can I see somewhere in GUI to what % zoom level is set? Basilisk shows it in URL bar if zoom level is set to other than 100%.

Try Zoom Label.

[Night Wing]

Am I missing something? Can I see somewhere in GUI to what % zoom level is set? Basilisk shows it in URL bar if zoom level is set to other than 100%.

Try Zoom Label.

I also use Zoom Label. It works great. Very good suggestion.

[chrisriley+3000]

Yes, it can be annoying and frustrating for me too, because I still go on several gaming sites that are powered by Pale Moon, some days it runs smoothly, other days the sites are down. One of them is Bonuslevel.org, another is Armor Games, NewGrounds, Crazygames and Miniclip. Not sure if any of you are familiar with those specific websites. It's like a roll of the dice, you never know when the site is going to be down and not working.

[Mæstro]

Sticking with archived versions of these sites is best.

[UCyborg]

I do use slightly modified version of Zoom Label extension, which I posted here. I was just wondering about the lack of native indicator in the browser itself.

On the random hangs, can't reproduce them when attempting to reproduce them. Just happens out of the blue when least expected.

I frequented miniclip.com years ago when they still had Flash version of 8 Ball Pool. The site seems to have changed a lot. Did their library just disappear? I remember first time visiting the site about 20 years ago. Far cry from today.

[UCyborg]

Welp, 34.0.1 did nothing for hangs. Still, when there's too much action, hang. Statistically, it seems more likely to happen when you have some Google's page crunching and switch to another tab at the time. You can still resize window, just can't click anything and web content doesn't reflow.

Even if I got the browser built on my own, attached Visual Studio's debugger, paused it, would anything be obvious to me? I'm an idiot and my brain struggles to comprehend most technical concepts.

[browserman]

It just seems to me that PM doesn't want to handle more then 2.5 GB memory without lagging.

On 32-bit processes that's actually expected. Its address space is 4GB maximum and a good chunk of that is unaddressable on 32-bit operating systems, as well.

Way back in v15 using Process explorer, I could visually see PM dropping memory usage when closing tabs. That is no longer the case. It seems to take forever to drop memory usage these days.

It's still the case if websites use the normal trifecta of html/css/js with each for their own designated purpose (document structure/styling/active content), and even then it's not immediate on purpose for performance and caching reasons. Current website usage patterns often want many things re-used and available on-demand with minimal delay, which requires you don't immediately throw things away when a tab is closed.
The additional problem with "modern" websites is that you have a very JS top-heavy setup that creates really large and complicated data structures in memory that the garbage collector has to run in overtime for to understand and clean up. That takes time, especially if you don't want to interrupts the user in their continued browsing and need to "trickle" the cleanup tasks.

This is interesting: I disabled dns-prefetching (for privacy when searching and all results (links) being sent over to my ISP), and I can "feel" no performance difference. If PM hangs, it should still be checking for ctrl+w or mouse-click on the tab's 'x' to close it immideately (=very user friendly), but here you mentioned garbage collection. Is it possible to just kill & wipe everything, not caring about re-use but instead reload what is needed after?

Well, then a tip about how to run PM with excellent performance: disable javascript

[frostknight]

Thanks to this github repo project called conty:

https://github.com/Kron4ek/Conty

I now use waterfox if I really cannot access my stuff any other way.

Reddit and mandtbank are being painfully aggravating lately...

I rarely use reddit though. Also I avoid regular reddit.

old.reddit isn't as bloated and trashy looking.

[UCyborg]

I actually came across the website that consistently hangs the browser in a way I described. And it doesn't happen in fresh profile. That may make ruling out things easier.

[UCyborg]

Interesting, it happens with combination of uBlock Origin and PassIFox (or PassIMoon). I may make a separate more detailed thread about it in the following days.

[Geroom]

I get this problem a lot on websites that are heavy, but i have an old computer. It doesn't happen when i use Firefox forks though like r3dfox, at least not the same as on Pale Moon.

[ownedbywuigi]

I get this problem a lot on websites that are heavy, but i have an old computer. It doesn't happen when i use Firefox forks though like r3dfox, at least not the same as on Pale Moon.

From what I can tell, the lack of multi-processing (e10s) on Pale Moon/UXP seems to be the main reason of website slowdown for me, as disabling e10s on r3dfox seems to produce similar speed to browsing the web on Pale Moon/UXP

[Mæstro]

To discuss the titular theme more generally, I feel less frustrated as a Pale Moon browser than I feel here, as in many branches of my life (as hinted at odd times in other posts), that the world have chosen to leave me behind without ever consulting me on the decision. We all know that there are large communities devoted to rejecting us as ‘outdated’ or ‘obsolete’, and our choice of browser is no exception. Commercial institutions have never cared about our well being, and make the internet ever more hostile for us. Academic institutions are litle beter, from what I have heard of how web design is taught these days. Having our own website and devoted community is not enough to wash away the mark of ‘crank’ in which the rest of the world have dipped us. The stain can leave one feeling rather melancholy sometimes, without shaking our doubts in our position’s integrity. What is there to shake this ill feeling left over from a world which likes to batter us?

[UCyborg]

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Sorry, no constructive suggestions...

Could be just me being one of those users whose usage touch parts that may be less exercised by other Pale Moon's users in general. Though some have even crazier amount of extensions and what not.

I noticed if you just open the dev tools on Inspector, click event indicator near the element with attached event handler, then click the arrow to follow it in source code, debugger opens, but doesn't open the file at line in question. "Cold start" issue, if you try again on Inspector page, then it's fine the second time.

[UCyborg]

On the bright side, I noticed I can create folders and upload files again on Nextcloud with PM 34.2.0. Both Nextcloud and Jenkins still look a bit off, though Jenkins' appearance improved recently.

[jarsealer]

Off-topic:
I'd imagine Pale Moon would get more interest if a decent sized you-tuber made a video about it, maybe in a browser comparison topic.