Google calls Pale Moon a robot

Walter Dnes · Post by **Walter Dnes** » 2025-09-15, 14:12

Operating system: linux (Devuan)
Browser version: 33.8.2
32-bit or 64-bit browser?: 64
Problem URL: https:www.google.com (also entering search terms in URL bar)
Browser theme (if not default):
Installed add-ons: Modify HTTP Response 1.3.8
Installed plugins: (about:plugins):

If possible, please include the output of help->troubleshooting information (as text):

See screencap below. Pale Moon versus Chromium (not Chrome). Pale Moon gets the robot screen. Same computer, same IP address. Also happens if HTTP Response is disabled.

Post by **Night Wing** » 2025-09-15, 14:45

I went to Google and searched for "initial github setup" just like you did. I didn't get the challenge prompt . What I got was a page which would not fully load because it was stuck in an endless loop for Google's..............AI (artificial intelligence which is not intelligent). It locked up Pale Moon where nothing on Pale Moon worked.

I had to kill Pale Moon by using my Taskmanager and then reload Pale Moon to get back to your post in this topic thread.

therube · Post by **therube** » 2025-09-15, 16:24

Are you blocking JavaScript?
If so, Goggle seems to no longer allows said blocking ("for security reason", of course

).
(In the past, I'd set a useragent override to Lynx/2.9.2 which got around the JS requirement, but as of the past Friday, that "hack" stopped working.)

(In SeaMonkey) with default UA, Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.22, www.google.com is bring up captcha's.

I then changed the UA to FF 115 ESR's UA & that worked (no more captcha, but again, JS required).

(I then changed Search from google to www.startpage.com

.)

So I suspect a useragent change, for www.google.com, will work to alleviate the captcha?

(mail.google.com still works, JavaScript required for mail.google.com, but JS not required, google.com.)

Goodydino · Post by **Goodydino** » 2025-09-15, 17:38

I just discovered that google search now demands javascript. A few years back, I could use google.ca to search and it did not object to javascript being disabled. Now google insists on using google.com and on using javascript to search.

Post by **Moonchild** » 2025-09-15, 18:51

Another reason to use DuckDuckGo?

Lucio Chiappetti · Post by **Lucio Chiappetti** » 2025-09-15, 19:00

I don't use google search since ages (occasionally I use google maps) but I tried the search in object without any problem (I have uBO).
NB I never do searches being logged in, and I reply "reject all" to the first popup.

Post by **moonbat** » 2025-09-15, 21:52

I switched to Startpage as a Google substitute like 15 years ago.

frostknight · Post by **frostknight** » 2025-09-15, 21:55

therube wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 16:24
Are you blocking JavaScript?
If so, Goggle seems to no longer allows said blocking ("for security reason", of course ).

Running more code and especially heavy/bloated code is good for security? I call heavy BS on that.

This is the same reason I avoid systemd on linux.

Off-topic:
Not just that systemd is supported by the us government...

But yeah, Google is full of it.

frostknight · Post by **frostknight** » 2025-09-15, 21:57

Moonchild wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 18:51
Another reason to use DuckDuckGo?

For sure... I stopped using Google I think around the time I learned about duckduckgo.

I forget when I learned of it though. Probably XP/Vista days.

When windows 2000 was out I still used Google due to well... reasons

Walter Dnes · Post by **Walter Dnes** » 2025-09-16, 15:08

therube wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 16:24
Are you blocking JavaScript?

No.

therube wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 16:24
I then changed the UA to FF 115 ESR's UA & that worked (no more captcha, but again, JS required).

I went to https://www.useragents.me/ and to the category "Latest Linux Desktop Useragents" and selected "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:136.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/136.0". We'll see what happens.

Goodydino · Post by **Goodydino** » 2025-09-16, 18:47

Walter Dnes wrote: ↑
2025-09-16, 15:08

therube wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 16:24
Are you blocking JavaScript?
No.
therube wrote: ↑
2025-09-15, 16:24
I then changed the UA to FF 115 ESR's UA & that worked (no more captcha, but again, JS required).
I went to https://www.useragents.me/ and to the category "Latest Linux Desktop Useragents" and selected "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:136.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/136.0". We'll see what happens.

The user-agents listed on that page are not the latest. Currently, the latest user-agents are:
Safari 18.6
Chrome 139.0
Edge 139.0
Opera 121
Firefox 142.0

River Moon · Post by **River Moon** » 2025-09-17, 13:59

Walter Dnes wrote:Pale Moon gets the robot screen.

Google's "Our systems have detected unusual traffic..." can be triggered by all sorts of trivial things. Recently its become more picky about the User Agent.

You probably need to play with your User Agent, try dropping the Goanna/6.7 part?

I had been feeding Google the User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 Windows because this gave a more 'classic' layout of the search results. Recently this started triggering the "unusual traffic" challenge. I now have:

Code: Select all

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 11.0; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0

which seems to have fixed the problem.

I also fell foul of the requirement to have Javascript active because Google started including this:

Code: Select all

<noscript> redirect:
<noscript><style>table,div,span,p{display:none}</style><meta content="0;url=/httpservice/retry/enablejs?sei=[tracking code]" http-equiv="refresh">

Which throws you to here: https://www.google.co.uk/httpservice/retry/enablejs... which is particularly difficult to avioid.

I now have Javascript active but strip out all of Google's inline Javascript:

Code: Select all

/* Remove inline scripts */
var eli = document.getElementsByTagName('script');
for (var i = eli.length - 1; i >= 0; i--)
{
	eli[i].remove();
}

Getting Google search to play nice can be a constant battle.

Post by **Night Wing** » 2025-09-17, 15:01

Just throwing in my two cents in here. Keep in my mind I am using the default settings in Pale Moon.

I got the same thing from Google earlier this morning when a "scammer" rang my landline phone. I knew it was a scammer spoofing a phone number so I went to Google to confirm my suspicion.

After I typed in the scammer's phone number and tapped my Enter key, I immediately got the "bot" challenge. Reminded me a lot of Cloudlfare too. I was told by one of my friends when the challenge prompt comes up, if one checks the box too quickly telling Google you are not a bot, you can get blocked.

But if one waits about 5-7 seconds and then checks the box, you will gain access. I waited about 7 seconds, checked the box and then tapped my Enter key, I was allowed to proceed. BTW, the phone number did not match any results on the page I had access to.

I was curious so I dialed the scammer's number back and I got a recording saying the number I had just dialed was "out of service and not valid".

Post by **Moonchild** » 2025-09-17, 15:36

River Moon wrote: ↑
2025-09-17, 13:59
Getting Google search to play nice can be a constant battle.

Not sure why you insist on using a service that requires you to jump through a ton of hoops. Google Search is easily rivalled by plenty of other search engines these days.

Gemmaugr · Post by **Gemmaugr** » 2025-09-17, 16:38

Moonchild wrote: ↑
2025-09-17, 15:36

River Moon wrote: ↑
2025-09-17, 13:59
Getting Google search to play nice can be a constant battle.
Not sure why you insist on using a service that requires you to jump through a ton of hoops. Google Search is easily rivalled by plenty of other search engines these days.

I don't know about plenty..

Sadly, most search sites are just frontends for google and/or bing;

google frontends:

Kagi
Startpage
Presearch
Ask
SearX (not all instances, but most)
DogPile
Gibiru

Bing;

DDG
Yahoo
Metager
Oscobo
You
Lilo
Qwant
Ecosia
MonsterCrawler
SwissCows
EntireWeb
Petal
ZapMeta
Ekoru
Lycos
Neeva
SearX (Not all instances, but most)
DogPile

Actually independent search sites (engine/crawler/index)

Brave search
Mojeek
RightDao
Wiby
InfoTiger
Stract
Greppr
Marginalia
Yep

https://www.searchenginemap.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... or#General

https://digdeeper.club/articles/search.xhtml

Ah, right. I myself mostly use Brave search and Mojeek.

frostknight · Post by **frostknight** » 2025-09-18, 00:21

Moonchild wrote: ↑
2025-09-17, 15:36
Not sure why you insist on using a service that requires you to jump through a ton of hoops. Google Search is easily rivalled by plenty of other search engines these days.

Couldn't agree more...

Although for me, searx and duckduckgo are all that I use right now.

UCyborg · Post by **UCyborg** » 2025-09-21, 14:00

River Moon wrote: ↑
2025-09-17, 13:59
I had been feeding Google the User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 Windows because this gave a more 'classic' layout of the search results. Recently this started triggering the "unusual traffic" challenge. I now have:
Code: Select all
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 11.0; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0

Isn't Win11 still 10.0 internally? Unless that was your plan to try to confuse their user agent checking.

I haven't seen this message in a while, though I did encounter it in the past. It usually resolved on its own rather quickly.

I just use native user agent now except for accounts.google.com, which wants to see Firefox for login to 3rd party sites via Google account to work.

jarsealer · Post by **jarsealer** » 2025-09-21, 16:07

UCyborg wrote: ↑
2025-09-21, 14:00
I just use native user agent now except for accounts.google.com, which wants to see Firefox for login to 3rd party sites via Google account to work.

Is the default user agent mode in PM supposed to be native? mine's set to Firefox compatibility since install.

I wonder if that helps make PM more recognizable as an independent browser, and websites consider optimizing for it as well.

UCyborg · Post by **UCyborg** » 2025-09-21, 16:34

Native in how things are labelled in settings means that neither "Gecko" or "Firefox" are added to the user agent string. "PaleMoon" is always there unless removed with some site-specific override. Gecko mode adds "Gecko" portion, Firefox mode adds "Firefox" portion in addition to "Gecko". I imagine most code out there doesn't check for "PaleMoon" specifically, probably the only way for Pale Moon to be more noticeable would be with its users making a rumble.

River Moon · Post by **River Moon** » 2025-09-22, 08:13

UCyborg wrote:Isn't Win11 still 10.0 internally? Unless that was your plan to try to confuse their user agent checking.

My using NT 11.0 is just me poking fun – I am never going to use Windows 11 – and I don't think it makes any practical difference. I think it's the Firefox, Gecko, and 52.0 that are doing the heavy lifting.

In this case the Gecko/Firefox made the 'unusual traffic' finger-waging go away, and the 52.0 gives a very diffeent look to Google's search results. One that I prefer over the newer incarnation.

As far I'm concerned the User Agent is a fiction designed to be manipulated for the sole purpose of getting the results you want.

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