Pale Moon on updatable live USB

[Garland]

My wife's Win8.1 10-year-old laptop is literally falling apart and producing at least a daily BSOD. My matching laptop is falling apart too, but no BSODs. I bought 2 new PCs with this processor:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... tions.html
I am in the process of configuring the new PCs with Win10 to be as secure and private as I achieved with Win8.1, but it may take me a month or two to sanitize them and bring them online. I am so horrified by Win11 that I plan to migrate to installed Linux or BSD (after 40 years of DOS/Windows).

In the short term, I need an updatable live USB for my wife to use to watch videos and surf the internet (while I configure Win10). The main application is Pale Moon, which I want to keep up-to-date, install add-ons and configure. For banking and shopping sites, we use Firefox ESR with uBO and https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js
For security & privacy online, I want the USB to load into 32GB of RAM and then forget all changes upon reboot. But I also want to update the USB (or remaster another USB) when I make changes while offline. Here is a list of Linux distributions that load into RAM (sadly no BSD distributions do this):
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?cate ... RAM#simple
The distribution I use for a live USB doesn't need to be what I will migrate to for the eventual installed distribution, which I am leaning toward BSD or from this list:
https://itsfoss.com/systemd-free-distros/

So far, the best fit for my live USB needs seems to be antiX because it has Firefox ESR. Does antiX work with Pale Moon? Does Steve Pusser's build for MX Linux work well in antiX?

Some other interesting candidates are Puppy Linux (Slackware64 Official Pup has up-to-date Pale Moon available) and MX Linux. They have bleeding-edge Firefox instead of Firefox ESR. I have read that the former will not utilize user.js. Can anyone confirm or deny this with Puppy Linux and MX Linux? Also, are there any 64-bit Puppy Pups with up-to-date Pale Moon already included in the ISO?

A general concern I have is that my processor from 2024 Q1 is too new for these older distributions. Main concern is video and chipset (no WiFi and my mouse, keyboard and USB ethernet are 10 years old). MX Linux offers ahs/Advanced Hardware Support with Linux kernel 6.14, which came after 2024 Q1. I dare not try bleeding-edge builds based on Debian 13, since 13.1 was just released yesterday. Any comments on compatibility with new hardware?

[Night Wing]

Some other interesting candidates are Puppy Linux (Slackware64 Official Pup has up-to-date Pale Moon available) and MX Linux. They have bleeding-edge Firefox instead of Firefox ESR.

I have a desktop tower computer which has two SSD's in it. One SSD is running 64 bit MX Linux 23.6 (Libretto) Xfce and the other SSD is running 64 bit Debian 13.1 (Trixie) Xfce. I cannot offer any input in antiX, Puppy Linux, Slackware, etc; so keep that in mind.

I am typing this post using 64 bit linux Pale Moon (GTK2) 33.8.2 running in 64 bit MX Linux. My Pale Moon version is "not" installed either. I create the path, along with the Pale Moon logo, to the launcher for Pale Moon. And I get my Pale Moon versions from the link below.

https://www.palemoon.org/download.shtml

In MX 23.6, the default browser is 64 bit Firefox and this version (at the time of this posting) is (142.0.1).

The Firefox browser which comes with MX Linux by default is "not bleeding edge". These Firefox versions are the "stable" versions. The bleeding edge versions of Firefox are the "Firefox Nightly" versions and they do not come with MX Linux. I stay away from the Nightly versions of Firefox since I am not a power user.

Below is the system information for this SSD running MX Linux 23.6 at the time of this posting. Also note, this motherboard has a 12th generation Intel i7 processor in it.

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-39-amd64 [6.1.148-1] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-39-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.0 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.38 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.20.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0 Distro: MX-23.6_x64 Libretto September 15  2024 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: MAG B660M MORTAR WIFI DDR4 (MS-7D42) v: 1.0
    serial: <superuser required> UEFI: American Megatrends LLC. v: 1.M0 date: 04/17/2025
CPU:
  Info: model: 12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700K bits: 64 type: MST AMCP arch: Alder Lake gen: core 12
    level: v3 note: check built: 2021+ process: Intel 7 (10nm ESF) family: 6 model-id: 0x97 (151)
    stepping: 2 microcode: 0x3A
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 12 mt: 8 tpc: 2 st: 4 threads: 20 smt: enabled cache: L1: 1024 KiB
    desc: d-4x32 KiB, 8x48 KiB; i-8x32 KiB, 4x64 KiB L2: 12 MiB desc: 8x1.2 MiB, 1x2 MiB L3: 25 MiB
    desc: 1x25 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 800 min/max: 800/4900:5000:3800 scaling: driver: intel_pstate
    governor: powersave cores: 1: 800 2: 800 3: 800 4: 800 5: 800 6: 800 7: 800 8: 800 9: 800 10: 800
    11: 800 12: 800 13: 800 14: 800 15: 800 16: 800 17: 800 18: 800 19: 800 20: 800
    bogomips: 144383
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected
  Type: mds status: Not affected
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Not affected
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling mitigation: Clear Register File
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Enhanced / Automatic IBRS; IBPB: conditional; PBRSB-eIBRS: SW
    sequence; BHI: BHI_DIS_S
  Type: srbds status: Not affected
  Type: tsa status: Not affected
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel AlderLake-S GT1 vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: i915 v: kernel ports: active: none
    empty: DP-1, DP-2, HDMI-A-1, HDMI-A-2, HDMI-A-3, HDMI-A-4 bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:4680
    class-ID: 0380
  Device-2: AMD Vega 10 XL/XT [Radeon RX 56/64] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: amdgpu v: kernel
    arch: GCN-5 code: Vega process: GF 14nm built: 2017-20 pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16
    ports: active: HDMI-A-5 empty: DP-3,DP-4,DP-5 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:687f class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.20.0 driver: X:
    loaded: amdgpu,modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0.0
    screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 509x286mm (20.04x11.26") s-diag: 584mm (22.99")
  Monitor-1: HDMI-A-5 mapped: HDMI-A-4 model: ViewSonic VX3276-FHD serial: <filter> built: 2022
    res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 70 gamma: 1.2 size: 698x393mm (27.48x15.47") diag: 801mm (31.5")
    ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1920x1080 min: 720x400
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: AMD Radeon RX Vega (vega10 LLVM 15.0.6 DRM 3.49
    6.1.0-39-amd64) direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Alder Lake-S HD Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    alternate: snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:7ad0 class-ID: 0403
  Device-2: AMD Vega 10 HDMI Audio [Radeon 56/64] driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 3
    speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 bus-ID: 03:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:aaf8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-39-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Alder Lake-S PCH CNVi WiFi driver: iwlwifi v: kernel modules: wl bus-ID: 00:14.3
    chip-ID: 8086:7af0 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8125 2.5GbE vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 2
    speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 4000 bus-ID: 05:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8125 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel AX201 Bluetooth type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8 bus-ID: 1-14:8 chip-ID: 8087:0026
    class-ID: e001
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 2 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 3.0 lmp-v: 5.2
    sub-v: 356b hci-v: 5.2 rev: 356b
  Info: acl-mtu: 1021:4 sco-mtu: 96:6 link-policy: rswitch sniff link-mode: peripheral accept
    service-classes: rendering, capturing, audio, telephony
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 912.89 GiB used: 18.32 GiB (2.0%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: SanDisk model: SSD PLUS 480GB size: 447.13 GiB block-size:
    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 04RL scheme: GPT
  ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 2B6Q
    scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 446.88 GiB size: 438.79 GiB (98.19%) used: 18.32 GiB (4.2%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 256 MiB size: 252 MiB (98.46%) used: 274 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 6 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 26.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 41.0 C mem: 44.0 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 687
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2404 libs: 1265 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala,synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 0
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/mxlinux/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
Info:
  Processes: 364 Uptime: 3h 1m wakeups: 1 Memory: 62.52 GiB used: 1.81 GiB (2.9%) Init: SysVinit
  v: 3.06 runlevel: 5 default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: UEFI

[Garland]

Thank you Night Wing for documenting your setups that are working with Pale Moon. For Debian 13.1, did you get the Pale Moon package from the MX 23 repo (based on Debian 12)?

It occurred to me today that I could have one live USB for Pale Moon with MX 23.6+ahs for playing videos and general internet, and a different live USB (antiX?) for Firefox ESR for banking/shopping. MX Linux with ahs supports my modern CPU+chipset, is well documented and has GUI tools to make it easier for Windows refugees like me. A better first step...

I was being poetic instead of specific when referring to Firefox 142 as "bleeding edge". arkenfox/user.js doesn't have a release for Firefox 142, but they do for Firefox 140, which is also the base for the latest Firefox ESR. It is a lot of work to customize user.js, so I prefer to stick with Firefox ESR, which changes bases less often. My security strategy is to use a live USB without persistence for online sessions, so using the latest released Firefox is less important.

[Night Wing]

Thank you Night Wing for documenting your setups that are working with Pale Moon. For Debian 13.1, did you get the Pale Moon package from the MX 23 repo (based on Debian 12)?

I do not use any repo for linux Pale Moon in "both" MX Linux and Debian. For Debian, I started with Debian 12.2 (Bookworm) and upgraded to the various point releases (3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11). A few weeks ago, I upgraded to Debian 13 (Trixie). Just a few days ago, I upgraded to the newest point release (13.1). And I always get my 64 bit linux Pale Moon (GTK2) from the previous link I posted to you in my first message and it is still:

https://www.palemoon.org/download.shtml

I have been using linux distros since January of 2013. I enjoy the Xfce desktop environment so when I used to go "distro hopping", I always looked for a distro that offered Xfce since Xfce (for me) was very easy to learn and use.

The distros I have tried at various times have been Mint, MX Linux, Debian, Xubuntu, Chalet OS, Manjaro, Sparky Linux, Spiral Linux, Peppermint, etc. In all of these distros, I got my linux Pale Moon from the link above.

And in all of these distros, past and present, my linux Pale Moon was "not" installed. Some people are under the impression Pale Moon must be "installed" in a linux distro for it to run and work. That is not true today and it was not true back in 2013. And I have never used the "portable" version of Pale Moon either.

The method I use to "not" install Pale Moon works in any distro which offers the Xfce desktop environment. As an example. When I used Mint, I chose Xfce and Pale Moon works uninstalled.

But Mint also offers the Cinnamon desktop environment. And my method which works in Xfce, the steps I take in Xfce will not work in Cinnamon. Just the quirks of the many different desktop environments in linux distros.

When Pale Moon updates to a newer point or major release, I "manually" go to the link above, download the tarball, extract the Pale Moon folder to where I want it and then use it.

Since my Pale Moon is not installed, any time I go distro hopping, I have to manually create the path and the logo to the Pale Moon launcher icon to where the Pale Moon folder is on any distro I am using. I only have to do this "one time". From then on, I do not have to create the launcher icon again.

When a new version comes along whether it be a point or major release, all I have to do is manually download the tarball, delete the extracted folder from the previous version of Pale Moon and place the new extracted folder where the previous folder was. Takes me about one minute of time to do this and I do not mind that it takes me one minute of time to do this.

If I have a SSD that fails where I have to format the drive to reload a distro, I have to again manually create the path and logo to the launcher icon to where the extracted Pale Moon is located.

[Garland]

Thanks for clarifying your non-installation method. I did not pick up on that the first time. I value your experience from distro hopping. My new PCs are very fast, so I have no concerns about Xfce taking more resources than some other desktops. Short learning curve is important to me. Since Xfce is the default desktop for MX Linux, I expect it will be more popular and less buggy.

Why are you using GTK2 instead of GTK3?

I lean toward using Steve Pusser's installer package for my first experience since I expect better support from the MX forum with that and easier to make Pale Moon the "default" browser in Xfce. Do I understand correctly that Steve Pusser doesn't offer both GTK2 and GTK3 versions because the MX Linux Xfce default is GTK3?

I have no experience or habits with GTK2 vs GTK3, and I am not seeking portability to old distributions that only offer GTK2. My understanding is that GTK2 uses Python2 and GTK3 uses Python3. I have Python programming skills that may come in handy for debug or automation in Linux, and I have forgotten Python2 techniques over the last decade. Our new PCs have FHD 22-inch monitors, so readability differences between GTK2 & GTK3 will be less of an issue.

[Night Wing]

Why are you using GTK2 instead of GTK3?

I lean toward using Steve Pusser's installer package for my first experience since I expect better support from the MX forum with that and easier to make Pale Moon the "default" browser in Xfce. Do I understand correctly that Steve Pusser doesn't offer both GTK2 and GTK3 versions because the MX Linux Xfce default is GTK3?

Point 1.

I use GTK2 instead of GTK3 because GTK3 has a quirk in it which affects the Bookmarks Toolbar in Pale Moon. I'll explain below.

Lets say you want to use the horizontal Bookmarks Toolbar using Pale Moon GTK3 and you have many bookmark folders which over run the toolbar. If this happens, at the end of the BT, there is an asterisk. If you click on that asterisk, the rest of your bookmark folders will appear in a vertical menu. But if you want to put one of those bookmark folders onto the horizontal toolbar, you will find you "cannot" drag that folder onto the Bookmarks Toolbar.

But if you are using Pale Moon GTK2, then you "can" drag any bookmarks folder in the vertical menu onto the horizontal Bookmarks Toolbar. This is why I use Pale Moon GTK2. Basically, I learn through "trial & error".

Point 2.

I do not know anything about Steve Pusser's builds for Pale Moon because I do not use Steve Pusser's builds for Pale Moon. At the link where I get my Pale Moon from in my two previous posts in this topic thread, those builds come from the user on here who goes by the username "trava90" (Travis).

Travis' builds are spot on for linux Pale Moon and he has been the maintainer for Pale Moon for many years now. I have never had any problems come up using his linux builds whether I'm using MX Linux or Debian.

[Garland]

Thanks for all your help Night Wing. I successfully used Rufus to create a live USB of MX Linux 23.6+ahs with the Xfce desktop. Installed Steve Pusser's Pale Moon installer. Successfully plays music on headphones and extends the desktop to my TV over HDMI. Some questions...

Pale Moon says it successfully made itself the default browser. But MX Welcome items still open in Firefox. And other help items still open in MX Viewer. Is there an Xfce setting or something else to make Pale Moon the default browser?

How do I configure MX to not check for updates? I plan to check for them manually.

[Night Wing]

Some questions...

Pale Moon says it successfully made itself the default browser. But MX Welcome items still open in Firefox. And other help items still open in MX Viewer. Is there an Xfce setting or something else to make Pale Moon the default browser?

How do I configure MX to not check for updates? I plan to check for them manually.

Since my Pale Moon is "not installed", I do not think I can make my Pale Moon the default browser in MX and have everything open in Pale Moon with your example concerning MX Welcome. It never bothered me that Pale Moon is not the default browser in MX. And since my Pale Moon is not installed, MX never checks for updates.

But you will have to remember you wanted Pale Moon installed in MX where I do not. In other words, this is one the quirks you are finding out about MX. You might have to get on the MX Forums site and send a post in the public forum or a private message to Stever Pusser. He should know the answer since he used to be on our Pale Moon forums site.

https://forum.mxlinux.org/

[moonbat]

Is there an Xfce setting or something else to make Pale Moon the default browser?

Been a while since I used XFCE (I used to have PM installed as default browser), but there's a default applications setting in its equivalent of system settings, where you can set the default browser, email client etc. If PM is installed, it should show up there.

[Garland]

Thank you moonbat for the "default applications" clue. Applications Menu>Settings>Default Applications did it!

Now I need to figure out how to configure MX to not automatically check for updates...

[moonbat]

Now I need to figure out how to configure MX to not automatically check for updates...

There should be something related to updates in the system settings. Best way is to set it to notify you when there are updates but not automatically install them. That way you can see what's going to be updated and unselect the ones you don't want to update.
Else if you really only want to not let Pale Moon get updated, better to stick to the packaged archive version (i.e. no system install and you'll have to manually set it as default browser, create desktop shortcuts etc) which has its own configurable updater.