Would like to know how to return from v33.8.2 to v33.8.1.2 Topic is solved

[Pallid Planetoid]

Operating system: Windows 10
Browser version: v33.8.3
32-bit or 64-bit browser?: 32-bit
Problem URL: https://palemoon.start.me/p/OmoAeM/start-page
Browser theme (if not default): Black Moon 0.1.5

There are no "errors" displayed in Error Console.

I would like to know what the procedure is to safely return from the current v33.8.2 to the former v33.8.1.2 (I'm hopeful since this most recent version is a "minor development" it will not be difficult to accomplish - perhaps as simple as updating over the current version with the former version - if so, please direct me to where I go to do this including the steps to do so.).

Thanks in advance.

My most recent backup profile goes way back to 2024-08-13 prior to the major development v33.3.0 (2024-08-13). There has been this major development and one other v33.8.0 (2025-07-01) since my profile backup (I hope this doesn't matter and I can simply return to v22.8.2 without any problems on the profile I am currently using).

The problem I'm having is since updating to v33.8.2 the start.me start-page loads very erratically in small sections at a time (browser status line switches very rapidly back-and-forth from waiting for f.start.me to sending something for a very long time which is not what is usual) and in the end the Google Calendar Widget ultimately fails to load about 90% of the time (see image screen-shot below). For a while I was getting some kind of "secure connection failed" errors on the google calendar widget and the weather widget - but that error issue eventually cleared (for the most part at least) for both widgets and just the calendar widget still has a problem eventually rendering as illustrated in the screen-shot below (sometimes the widget will reload successfully on a "refresh" of the widget - but that's not at all consistent).

These problems did not occur at all prior the 33.8.2 version of Pale Moon (that I've just tonight updated to) and does not occur in any other browsers. It would appear to me that v33.8.2 is in some way the cause of the problem (since pre-33.8.2 did not have these issues as described).

Upon updating this is what I get for the google calendar widget:

google calendar fails to render as of PMv33.8.2.png

I'm wondering if the change included in the most recent PM update -quote : Changed the way the address bar focus is handled when navigating to a fragment (#hash or anchor) within an existing URL. It will now re-focus the page the same way a normal address navigation would (resetting the "editing" state, unless the user is actively typing). -- is possibly contributing to the way the start.me start-page is loading so erratically in bits-and-pieces of the page and in the end having difficulty with some widgets with embedded data (most specifically the calendar widget in this case).

Has anyone else (that is using the start.me start-page) noticed (among the problems as of the current PM update) how the start-page renders the start-page in small sections at a time (images and/or thumbnail icons loading in small groups a little bit at a time).

[Pallid Planetoid]

Have cleared browser cache and Offline Website data - no improvement.
Rebooted computer - no improvement.
Have updated (back) to PMv33.8.1.2 (32-bit) over v33.8.2 using former versions installer - since the start.me load is not acceptable, figured I might as well try this.

Still no improvement!

The Calendar widget almost never renders, the Weather widget sometimes renders, the Comic widget is very slow at rendering and the icons for links to web-pages basically very slowly render one at a time (instead of very quickly virtually all at once as was the case before).

Examples of issues referenced above:
Weather widget feed will sometimes render partially (first screen-shot below) other times not at all (second screen-shot below) and occasionally render correctly.

Weather Widget partial for awhile.png

Weather Widget.png

render down the list mostly one at a time.png

None of this occurred prior to my updating Pale Moon to the current 33.8.2.

That is, up to 33.8.2 - the widgets would render w/out any problems and the icons would display all of them at once as I scroll down the page of my start-page.

I'm at a loss as to what has happened to my start.me start-page (all other browsers behave in the same manner that Pale Moon did just hours prior to updating PM to 33.8.2).

One would assume 33.8.2 had something to do with the change in how the start-page rendered immediately in the manner I've described right after updating to 33.8.2.

If anyone else is using start.me - please post how your start-page is doing - thanks in advance.

[Moonchild]

I use start.me all the time, and I have not seen any issues. Then again I also don't use it for more than a bookmark collection and news reader (I don't use the calendar or weather widgets).
I'd have a look at your page (at the given URL) but it's a private page so I can't access it.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Oh well, maybe at some point things will start working as they should again (we both use bookmarks and apparently the manner in which your bookmarks get rendered hasn't changed (i.e. render as usual - quickly and at virtually all the same time instead of the change I get now).

We also both use news feed links (i.e. your reference to "news reader" - actually since there aren't any icons used for News Feeds - I don't have any problem with this part of my page. The issue seems to be due to the icons that take forever to display.

And as I said, the status bar of the browser show hectic cycling through requests/responses flashing back-and-forth so fast you can't even read what's occurring very well - this was not the case just prior to my updating PM to v33.8.2.

So I'll check back with Pale Moon occasionally to see how things are and hope the recent issues I'm getting will eventually all clear up. In the meantime - I guess I'll at some point get around to updating Pale Moon (once again) to keep it current.

On a side note: a few months back (edit: actually 8-9 months ago) - my comic widget remained broken for an extended period of time (would not render for an entire 30 day period a few months back) - I tried and tried to get start.me support to provide me with a release just prior to when the issue arose. What finally transpired is that after a month of the same issue the Comic widget just started rendering once again w/out me doing any thing at all (which would suggest to me the problem was NOT on my end presumably).

So we'll see...

Thanks for the feedback.

Edited the "side note" above to reflect the 8-9 months ago when the Comic widget had issues for very close to 30 days and then self-cleared back then (w/out any changes on my part).

[Pallid Planetoid]

For the record - this is the way the Weather widget should look (and as can be seen below - we find the comic widget that in this case took a very long time to render).

the way the weather should display - and the comic below took a very long time to render.png

I also notice that while the start-page is trying to display - during that time when I click on the link to use the forum it takes a very long time for the forum to render in the new browser tab (this is not the case when at some point the start-page activity comes to an end - the forum will then render very quickly).

[Lucio Chiappetti]

Problem URL: https://palemoon.start.me/p/OmoAeM/start-page

I would like to know what the procedure is to safely return from the current v33.8.2 to the former v33.8.1.2

In general a "safe procedure" would be what I use. I have set updates to "check for updates". Usually I get the forum message before the suggestion to update. Anyhow what I do is to make a backup of my palemoon installation and of my profile, then in Help->Cehck for updates trigger the update. This way I lways have locally the previous version.
I must add I never had a problem requiring to go back. On my "scratch" laptop (used when travelling) I update unconditionally without backup. On a friend's PC (Windows unlike me which am on Linux) I suggested automatic update.

I do not know what problem you have on start.me, for me it displays a login page (I cam't go further since I do not have an account, in general I like to browse without logging in to anything)

[Moonchild]

Not sure what to tell you. it all loads fast and without delays for me.
Try restarting your computer and your router?

[Drugwash]

Not sure if at all related but something in the discussion above clicked with my own experience. For a few versions now a strange issue happens: after starting up Pale Moon, if I try to open the router page (http://192.168.0.1/) from bookmarks in the existing blank tab (I'm not using start.me or anything - just blank tab) it takes forever, and the page either remains blank or displays a very broken collection of page elements.

However, if I close the tab while it tries to open the page, and immediately attempt to reopen it from bookmarks, it renders the page immediately and correctly.
Same thing happens with other [local] pages that use the http protocol - not https.

Was thinking there might be common ground here between the two issues. I do have Tab Utilities Phoenix 2.1.2 installed since ages, and the option to close the browser when last tab is closed is disabled.

@Pallid Planetoid: if you could try to disable the aforementioned option in your browser and try the procedure mentioned above (close first start.me page attempt and reopen it afterwards) maybe we could find if it's the same issue and possibly what triggers it.

[Moonchild]

if I try to open the router page (http://192.168.0.1/) from bookmarks in the existing blank tab (I'm not using start.me or anything - just blank tab) it takes forever, and the page either remains blank or displays a very broken collection of page elements.

However, if I close the tab while it tries to open the page, and immediately attempt to reopen it from bookmarks, it renders the page immediately and correctly.

That's very curious behaviour. I'm wondering if it's got to do with "one too many lazy-loaded UI script" which I've been wondering about for a few years, to be frank, from what we inherited from Mozilla. Maybe getting back to the "roots" of sync loading stuff we'd need anyway might be an idea.

Was thinking there might be common ground here between the two issues.

I'm not sure how. start.me is https, to begin with, and a remote address, not a local IP.

But. if you can get a handle on this to lead to improvements, I'm all ears.

[Drugwash]

I'm wondering if it's got to do with "one too many lazy-loaded UI script"

Frankly I wouldn't know what to say, it's all too vague to be able to get a handle on anything. I do let the browser to "settle" - load whatever it has to load - for a minute or so after starting it before attempting to open any page. It doesn't seem to matter, but maybe there are [internal] things that load later under specific conditions. Wouldn't know how to debug such issue.

I'm not sure how. start.me is https, to begin with, and a remote address, not a local IP.

I was thinking it could be related to the idea of the very first page load attempt after startup, also matching certain specific condition(s) - which again don't know how to detect.

Let's see if the behavior can be reproduced by Pallid Planetoid on their machine, it'd be at least a starting point. Otherwise it doesn't bother me very much, it's easy to get by, and anyway it's their topic not mine.

[Pallid Planetoid]

I'm not a tech person - but trying to figure out what you want via these comments:

Not sure if at all related but something in the discussion above clicked with my own experience. For a few versions now a strange issue happens: after starting up Pale Moon, if I try to open the router page (http://address you posted/) from bookmarks in the existing blank tab (I'm not using start.me or anything - just blank tab) it takes forever, and the page either remains blank or displays a very broken collection of page elements.

I'm assuming the IP address you posted is your unique "router page" IP and I have my own.

So I've found this (to find out my router IP):
To find the router's IP on Windows, type "ipconfig /all" into Command Prompt and find the address next to "Default gateway."

So doing the above in a "Command Prompt" - and looking for the "address next to 'Default gateway'" - I get this:

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
999.999.9.999

So I'm presuming my router's IP (as referenced above) is 999.999.9.999 that we see next to "Default Gateway" (as described above)......

So using this (999.999.9.999) address entered into a new browser tab - I get the following screen-shot below:

router IP untruested redacted IP.png

So it would appear that perhaps I'm not doing what you are requesting (note: using the address you posted, i.e. http://IP you posted/ that my Pale Moon browser switches to a secure address (i.e. using https) as I only allow "https" on my browser - I get a delay of 20 seconds and then I get ("the connection has timed out") what you see below: - but I'm assuming this is not the IP address for the router I'm using (since that is yours - right?)

drugwash IP address redacted results.png

Question:
Am I understanding and doing the correct thing to get the info you want?

Oh and one last caveat - using your "http://IP you posted/" (i.e. forcing non secure http) I get the "This Connection is Untrusted" dialog (which I presume is to be expected) - my Pale Moon converts addresses to a secure address (i.e. "https", fwiw) if I don't intervene.

Note: I've gone back in and redacted the IP's - as it seems to me that it might be a "security" issue to post the actual IP's....

Now I have a question (that would I guess on the surface appear to be off-topic) - but my goal is to get these start-page widgets to render correctly in Pale Moon (as the all do in all other browsers).

So - I'm wondering why is Pale Moon's "cached web" content and offline "web content" and "user data" both remain zero all the time.

cached web content and offline web content and user data remains zero always.png

It's been my experience that these two functions accumulate and thus increase in size (until I might clear them at some point perhaps)....

So why do they both remain ZERO?... all the time (it gives me the impression something is not working as usual here)...

Thanks in advance.

Edited: to redact IP addresses.

[Drugwash]

Sorry you got so involved with the router and IP, I must've explained things the wrong way. I only mentioned the router because that's when it happens to me consistently right after starting the browser. The idea was for you to test by disabling closing the browser when last tab is closed (in Preferences > Tabs), close the browser, then start it back. Then when the start.me page is lagging just close the tab and try reloading the same page (manually, by typing start.me in the address bar, if it doesn't automatically go back there). If it loads everything fine the second time then it might be the same issue as mine - otherwise they are different and I'm out of your hair. Sorry for the confusion.

[Pallid Planetoid]

... test by disabling closing the browser when last tab is closed (in Preferences > Tabs), close the browser, then start it back. Then when the start.me page is lagging just close the tab and try reloading the same page (manually, by typing start.me in the address bar, if it doesn't automatically go back there).....

1) set pref for browser to not "close the window when the last tab is closed".
2) then closed the browser, then start it back up.
3) as start-page is lagging - I closed the tab (note: I have set - when opening a new tab I render a custom URL (which consists of a file I've written that resides on my computer that I've been using in Pale Moon and other browsers in many cased 10+ years) - which is a simplistic link page of sites I use). This should not interfere in any way with the test as I continue to step 4 to start my start-page again (in the new browser tab).
4) after closing the (lagging) start.me tab (as mentioned in step 3) I then paste a copy of the start.me URL (as opposed to typing it) into the browser address bar to start my start.me start-page again.

Results: No change - I get the same rendering of my start-page (as before).

So I don't get a good load of the start-page the second time as you do.

Thanks for the suggestion - though

[Pallid Planetoid]

to continue with one more point in regards to my start.me rendering issues that have just now cropped up this week....

I will occasionally get this result for the calendar widget - (that quite frankly - I don't recall I've ever gotten this in the entire time (8+ years) I've used this widget in my start-page).

occassionally get 'secure connection failed' for google calendar.png

[Drugwash]

Results: No change - I get the same rendering of my start-page (as before).

OK, thank you for testing and sorry it didn't yield any positive results that we could work with. Hopefully someone else could help you with some tips as to what to try next. Good luck!

[Pallid Planetoid]

I'll try posing my previous question again (as it is probably getting lost in all the milieu...)

To the point of my question - I'm thinking that the reason for my slow loading of the start-page is BECAUSE of Pale Moon not using any "cached web" content and offline "web content" and "user data" like it should be...

Here's my (revised) question once again:

Now I have a question (that would I guess on the surface appear to be off-topic) - but my goal is to get these start-page widgets and myriad of icons to render more quickly in Pale Moon (as they all do in all other browsers).

So - I'm wondering why is Pale Moon's "cached web" content and offline "web content" and "user data" both remain zero all the time.

cached web content and offline web content and ser data remains zero always.png

-- It seems to me that this data should not remain zero all the time but should rather accumulate with data and thus increase in size (until I might clear them at some point perhaps) to assist in making pages load faster....

If I'm correct on this then (i.e. on the right track...)...

Why do they both remain ZERO?... all the time (it gives me the impression something is not working as usual here - and such could be the reason for my issue loading the page in a timely manner)...

I just now checked again - both still remain ZERO over the past 12 hours since I last checked to post my original question. The data (numbers) should not be remaining zero all the time (but should rather be incrementing over time) - right?

And I would add - the issue remains while using the browser in "Safe-Mode" - which is not using any extensions - so am I correct to say it can't be an "extension" issue?

Btw, I use the "Greedy Cache" extension that has the settings:
1) Load resources from cache
2) Enforce caching of images

Both enabled.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Results: No change - I get the same rendering of my start-page (as before).

OK, thank you for testing and sorry it didn't yield any positive results that we could work with. Hopefully someone else could help you with some tips as to what to try next. Good luck!

I'm observing a change in results today (while doing some testing) - the start-page is loading as expected (very quickly) by way of me opening a new tab and pasting the start-page URL in the address bar - after the initial starting of the start-page was horrendously slow.

This is without my disabling the "Close the window when the last tab is closed" setting and exiting the browser and then starting the browser again and entering the start-page manually....

All I'm doing is opening a new tab and pasting the start-page URL in the address bar for the new tab - and the start-page repeatedly loads as expected (as it had been in the past) very quickly...

So it DOES look like after starting the browser up and experiencing the slow loading of the browser initially - and then entering the start-page URL again in new tabs address bar the start-page loads fine. (just doing things a little different than how you had instructed me to do ).

So what does this new development mean?

I'm hoping my finding out I get the same results as you (under the scenario I've just described) is going to help in understanding the issue we both have....

I know one thing - it sure is nice to see the start page load "normally" again.

So how do we get Pale Moon to load the page "normally" the first time when starting the browser?

[Pallid Planetoid]

if I try to open the router page (http://192.168.0.1/) from bookmarks in the existing blank tab (I'm not using start.me or anything - just blank tab) it takes forever, and the page either remains blank or displays a very broken collection of page elements.

However, if I close the tab while it tries to open the page, and immediately attempt to reopen it from bookmarks, it renders the page immediately and correctly.

That's very curious behaviour. I'm wondering if it's got to do with "one too many lazy-loaded UI script" which I've been wondering about for a few years, to be frank, from what we inherited from Mozilla. Maybe getting back to the "roots" of sync loading stuff we'd need anyway might be an idea.

Was thinking there might be common ground here between the two issues.

I'm not sure how. start.me is https, to begin with, and a remote address, not a local IP.

But. if you can get a handle on this to lead to improvements, I'm all ears.

Hey Moonchild - check out my last post (just above) with important news!, hopefully this new development will help to determine the issue we are having (i.e. Drugwash and myself).

Also - why isn't Pale Moon using any cache in my case (re: my post prior to my last one). I had been wondering if this could be my problem - but I can definitely say that my start-page certainly does load plenty fast simply using a similar scenario as Drugwash was discussing previously. Now the page consistently loads quickly just opening a new tab and entering the start-page URL - after initially getting the very slow load when initially starting Pale Moon.

Why would we have this issue (Drugwash and myself) - but others (like yourself) - not have the issue?

[Moonchild]

Well, if your caching is broken, then that would explain.

Check "about:cache" to see if there is any issue with it (and check the cache paths).
Maybe "Greedy Cache" is being detrimental -- try disabling it?
Also check browser.cache.disk.* preferences that have non-standard values.

[Drugwash]

Following your advices above I might've found something: browser.cache.disk.smart_size.first_run is set to false for me.
Also browser.cache.disk.capacity is manually set to a relatively large value (245760), so maybe that one shouldn't be part of the problem.

In about:cache I got the following:

Code: Select all

memory
Number of entries: 	12
Maximum storage size: 	32768 KiB
Storage in use: 	225 KiB
Storage disk location: 	none, only stored in memory
List Cache Entries
disk
Number of entries: 	208
Maximum storage size: 	245760 KiB
Storage in use: 	3558 KiB
Storage disk location: 	/home/<username>/Apps/palemoon_sse2+gtk3_Drugwash/profiles/<profile_name>/cache2
List Cache Entries
appcache
Number of entries: 	0
Maximum storage size: 	512000 KiB
Storage in use: 	0 KiB
Storage disk location: 	/home/<username>/Apps/palemoon_sse2+gtk3_Drugwash/<profile_name>/OfflineCache 

Let's see what the OP finds on their own system, maybe something matches.
I will set browser.cache.disk.smart_size.first_run back to original value (true) and see if this fixes anything.

EDIT: No, setting the above to true didn't fix the issue for me.