Windows 11 still sucks.

Off-topic discussion/chat/argue area with special rules of engagement.
Forum rules
The Off-Topic area is a general community discussion and chat area with special rules of engagement.

Enter, read and post at your own risk. You have been warned!
While our staff will try to guide the herd into sensible directions, this board is a mostly unrestricted zone where almost anything can be discussed, including matters not directly related to the project, technology or similar adjacent topics.

We do, however, require that you:
  • Do not post anything pornographic.
  • Do not post hate speech in the traditional sense of the term.
  • Do not post content that is illegal (including links to protected software, cracks, etc.)
  • Do not post commercial advertisements, SEO links or SPAM posts.
We also ask that you keep strongly polarizing topics like politics and religion to a minimum. This forum is not the right place to discuss such things.
Please do exercise some common sense. How you act here will inevitably influence how you are treated elsewhere.
User avatar
Pentium4User
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1329
Joined: 2019-04-24, 09:38

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Pentium4User » 2025-08-03, 09:41

chrisriley+3000 wrote:
2025-08-03, 09:10
We have not downloaded Windows 11 yet. I hope in the future that we are not forced too, but if Windows 10 won't do anymore security updates, then what are we suppose to do? We also may not get used to it as we have been using Windows 10 for 5-6 years now, and it's working fine. Honestly I don't think we should change anything yet. If possible, could you guys give us some more pros and cons, that will determine what we do in the near future.
If you don't want to switch to W11, you have to use an entirely different operating system.
There are some easy to use Linux distributions like Ubuntu or OpenSUSE.
The profile picture shows my Maico EC30 E ceiling fan.

User avatar
back2themoon
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3093
Joined: 2012-08-19, 20:32

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by back2themoon » 2025-08-03, 10:08

chrisriley+3000 wrote:
2025-08-03, 09:10
...but if Windows 10 won't do anymore security updates, then what are we suppose to do.
I'm fairly confident those security updates available for the IoT version until January 2032, won't be all that hard to "find and apply" on Pro...

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-03, 10:38

Pentium4User wrote:
2025-08-03, 09:41
If you don't want to switch to W11, you have to use an entirely different operating system.
I don't think that's a viable suggestion for someone who doesn't want to switch within the Windows family of OSes.
back2themoon wrote:
2025-08-03, 10:08
I'm fairly confident those security updates available for the IoT version until January 2032, won't be all that hard to "find and apply" on Pro...
I'll most likely switch to LTSC myself soon, if I don't bite the bullet and feel like fighting constant telemetry and corp pushing of Win 11.
With some trickery, you can even do an overlay install of W10LTSC on top of your existing W10 without losing your apps and data -- but you'll of course have to get a new license for the W10 LTSC (since it'll be the Enterprise one, not Pro); you can get cheap OEM keys to activate, though, which is cheaper than even getting the piddly 1-year "extended support" Microsoft is offering to desktop users for 30 bucks.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Massacre
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 175
Joined: 2020-05-01, 13:16

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Massacre » 2025-08-05, 14:06

Pentium4User wrote:
2025-08-03, 09:41
If you don't want to switch to W11, you have to use an entirely different operating system.
There are some easy to use Linux distributions like Ubuntu or OpenSUSE.
No. For now, you can use Windows 10 LTSC 1809 (Extended support ends on January 9, 2029). Did not test any IoT versions that claimed support until year 2032. Actual problems will arise when software you need cease support of your specific Windows version (usually, several months or even years after end of extended support).

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-06, 19:27

I can just say I had a completely painless switchover on my workstation to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 (21H2) without as much as a hiccup with the many applications I have installed. If you're like me and find Windows 11's whole premise flawed, it's definitely something to consider. I personally wouldn't want to use 1809, as a lot of improvements have been made in 21H1 and H2 compared to that version. Switching over from Win 10 Pro was as simple as downloading the LTSC ISO from Microsoft, setting a few registry keys to satisfy its setup check (making it think it's a refresh in-place upgrade/overlay install) and then mounting the ISO from within Windows itself and launching setup. Completely painless procedure.
After install just needing re-activation with a valid key or digital license (or going the high seas route if you really can't spare a tenner, your call) and it's good to go dodging the whole pseudo-apple "lock everything down to Microsoft online" thing and the loss of QoL in the half-assed desktop revamp and in-OS ads for "other" Microsoft (and adjacent) products (I mean... seriously? don't do that.)
I don't really think I'll run into compatibility issues any time soon with 21H2.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 515
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by dbsoft » 2025-08-06, 22:47

I know I am late to this conversation, but I have a bit of a different take on Windows 11. I actually kind of like it. It is the first version of Windows I didn't mostly hate.

That said, I also was kind of expecting Windows to just be rolling updates, maybe Windows 11 would be one of the major updates of Windows 10. So that aspect definitely completely took me by surprise.

Also, the system requirements are just insane. They seem to be completely arbitrary and basically just cull the majority of computer systems out there from being supported. About half of my computer systems cannot officially support Windows 11 because the processors are too old or they don't have secure boot.

I kept expecting them to go back and change the system requirements so many of the completely capable systems would become supported and not destined for the trash heap or recycling bin. Or if they didn't change the Windows 11 requirements, I had hoped they would extend Windows 10 support for longer. However they seem to be intransigently continuing down this insane path that will: 1) Force people to buy computers they don't need. 2) Switch to Linux or some other platform. 3) Use an OS that is no longer receiving regular updates.

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-06, 23:15

dbsoft wrote:
2025-08-06, 22:47
but I have a bit of a different take on Windows 11. I actually kind of like it. It is the first version of Windows I didn't mostly hate.
That's probably because the aesthetic and operation is a lot more towards Apple desktop environments. It'll be pleasing for some portion of people in that respect.
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly like the lack of elegance in Win 10, myself, and I do think the aesthetic of 11 is marginally better in some respects, but the tradeoffs are just too much for me to give Win 11 a positive verdict, myself.
dbsoft wrote:
2025-08-06, 22:47
I also was kind of expecting Windows to just be rolling updates,
Everyone was. It was what was promised to the millions of users and enterprises alike. But that went out the window (no pun intended) with the change in top leadership and the sudden shift to what we have now.

The whole reason behind the hardware requirements in my opinion is also for a very specific purpose: Lock users into the Microsoft Online ecosystem. If you go along with a Microsoft account login for Windows (which is pushed hard), it comes with automatic bitlocker encryption tied to your online account (unless you explicitly switch it off); it is vendor lock-in in the worst way possible because it uses an uncopyable and locally unrecoverable key stored in the TPM, so you are forced to be deeply embedded in Microsoft's online ecosystem to log in and be able to use your PC/access your data (if you don't have net access, you can't unlock your PC... and you can't access your stuff. But fret not they say because it'll also be safely on their servers...). Allowing local accounts/lowering requirements goes against that premise so they won't give into that and will cut support for people in that situation because it doesn't benefit the new Microsoft leadership's tethered-presence vision. It's a very selfish PoV but that is what I see. Of course the fallout is an incoming mountain of perfectly capable computers going out of use. After very long, Linux seems to have finally broken 5% desktop market usage so I really don't see much happening there either for the other 95%. I don't think many people will go my route either despite it being simple, so yeah, people without cash to burn on new hardware are probably going to stay on what they have and not get updates.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Massacre
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 175
Joined: 2020-05-01, 13:16

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Massacre » 2025-08-06, 23:35

Moonchild wrote:
2025-08-06, 19:27
I can just say I had a completely painless switchover on my workstation to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 (21H2)
"Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) does not have extended support and so support will end on 12 January 2027" (except IoT - haven't tested myself)
I personally wouldn't want to use 1809, as a lot of improvements have been made in 21H1 and H2 compared to that version.
Which ones? Are those core or optional features?

User avatar
null_ID
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 17
Joined: 2024-03-04, 22:38

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by null_ID » 2025-08-06, 23:42

I am forever grateful to the people using and developing Puppy Linux for showing me the ways of the Penguin, my gateway drug to Tuxland. Thanks to Puppy, I now have access to nearly endless supply of still viable computers, unrestricted for me to use how ever I want.

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 515
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by dbsoft » 2025-08-06, 23:53

Moonchild wrote:
2025-08-06, 23:15
The whole reason behind the hardware requirements in my opinion is also for a very specific purpose: Lock users into the Microsoft Online ecosystem. If you go along with a Microsoft account login for Windows (which is pushed hard), it comes with automatic bitlocker encryption tied to your online account (unless you explicitly switch it off); it is vendor lock-in in the worst way possible because it uses an uncopyable and locally unrecoverable key stored in the TPM, so you are forced to be deeply embedded in Microsoft's online ecosystem to log in and be able to use your PC/access your data (if you don't have net access, you can't unlock your PC... and you can't access your stuff. But fret not they say because it'll also be safely on their servers...).
The local account is still possible, I do that every time... although they keep making it harder and harder to do, which is really annoying. Both Windows 10 and 11 have stupid telemetry, I use some software to block it on both. The bitlocker and TPM stuff is also optional, although it seems like if you get Windows 11 pre-installed you may have to reinstall it to get rid of it, which is even more annoying.

All of these things you basically only have to deal with at install time, which don't get me wrong is awful.... but once installed you don't have to do anything about them again, and I find it more pleasant after that point.

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-07, 07:00

Massacre wrote:
2025-08-06, 23:35
Are those core or optional features?
Mostly talking about core - I don't really use optional features (except WSL and Sandbox) so can't really tell.
Massacre wrote:
2025-08-06, 23:35
except IoT - haven't tested myself
I used the IoT ISO for my install, so I should be good until... 2032, was it? Even if just an extra year it gives me more space to evaluate.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-07, 07:02

dbsoft wrote:
2025-08-06, 23:53
All of these things you basically only have to deal with at install time, which don't get me wrong is awful.... but once installed you don't have to do anything about them again, and I find it more pleasant after that point.
Oh absolutely; my main point was what I think is the whole reasoning behind this pretty much 180 they did on rolling release updates on Win 10 and slapping these stupid hardware requirements on it. Not saying it can't be worked around by tech savvy people or what not, but trying to make sense of why on earth they did this.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
frostknight
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 869
Joined: 2022-08-10, 02:25

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-08-16, 12:06

Moonchild wrote:
2025-08-03, 10:38
I don't think that's a viable suggestion for someone who doesn't want to switch within the Windows family of OSes.
Our of curiosity, what specifically makes you prefer windows over linux? I am very curious given you know quite a bit about linux yourself.

I just ask what your reasons are. Not thinking I can necessarily change your mind, but I would be curious to know regardless.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Feelings are not facts
If you wish to be humbled, try to exalt yourself long term If you wish to be exalted, try to humble yourself long term
Favourite operating systems: Hyperbola Devuan OpenBSD
Say NO to Fascism and Corporatism as much as possible!
Also, Peace Be With us All!

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 38837
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-08-16, 13:13

frostknight wrote:
2025-08-16, 12:06
Our of curiosity, what specifically makes you prefer windows over linux? I am very curious given you know quite a bit about linux yourself.
To clarify, I was referring to chrisriley's post, who's someone who doesn't want to swap within the Windows family.

As for my own preference? I'm pretty sure I've already explained the many facets of Linux vs. Windows and my reasoning for it many times; do a search on the forum :) I don't particularly feel like re-iterating it again. They range from UI maturity to something as simple as undiscoverability within the GNU toolset, to compatibility across the board (e.g. games), to lacklustre "Linux alternatives" to essential tools for office work, and more. Some of the same workflow-breaking things I encounter with Windows 11 as well, for example system-modal dialog boxes that should be application-modal; lack of drag&drop cross-application via the taskbar, etc. - For how much Microsoft says they are wanting to make things more of an ecosystem, they have a funny way of showing it by breaking cross-app interchange of data.
"There is no point in arguing with an idiot, because then you're both idiots." - Anonymous
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
frostknight
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 869
Joined: 2022-08-10, 02:25

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-08-16, 14:09

Moonchild wrote:
2025-08-16, 13:13
To clarify, I was referring to chrisriley's post, who's someone who doesn't want to swap within the Windows family.

As for my own preference? I'm pretty sure I've already explained the many facets of Linux vs. Windows and my reasoning for it many times; do a search on the forum :) I don't particularly feel like re-iterating it again.
Can you show me the posts then? I would likely end up searching for a long time.

Also, if I preform too many searches in a certain time, I get blocked for a while.

Which is annoying lol.

I recall some file managers allow drag and drop btw. Depends...
And as for the UI, I stopped liking windows UI around vista coming out although looking back, XP also had bad UI.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Feelings are not facts
If you wish to be humbled, try to exalt yourself long term If you wish to be exalted, try to humble yourself long term
Favourite operating systems: Hyperbola Devuan OpenBSD
Say NO to Fascism and Corporatism as much as possible!
Also, Peace Be With us All!

User avatar
RJARPCGP
Moongazer
Moongazer
Posts: 7
Joined: 2025-07-16, 04:42
Location: USA(Springfield, Vermont)

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by RJARPCGP » 2025-08-22, 00:52

24H2 got messed up. I'm making an attempt to go back to 10 on one of my rigs.

User avatar
back2themoon
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3093
Joined: 2012-08-19, 20:32

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by back2themoon » 2025-08-22, 09:57

I'd suggest renaming this to "Windows 11 will forever suck".

Can't believe they are still dealing with severe SSD issues and other major breakage so damn often. Wasn't this supposed to be Windows 10 with a "modern-er UI" (i.e worse and over-simplified)?

I guess their constant and poorly tested "I want more AI" updates messed that simple notion up, too.

User avatar
Massacre
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 175
Joined: 2020-05-01, 13:16

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Massacre » 2025-08-22, 19:13

back2themoon wrote:
2025-08-22, 09:57
Can't believe they are still dealing with severe SSD issues and other major breakage so damn often. Wasn't this supposed to be Windows 10 with a "modern-er UI" (i.e worse and over-simplified)?
It is indeed "Windows 10" but with artifically imposed hardware requirements and less testing before release. They also have LTSC version, maybe with less bugs (if you don't auto-update it).

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1632
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by athenian200 » 2025-08-27, 20:20

Yeah, here's my situation with Windows 11. I've had to pause updates on my laptop that has it, because I'm worried that if I let it apply KB5063878, it will ruin the laptop's built in SSD that unfortunately has a Phison controller and is DRAM-less. So I'm currently in an uncomfortable limbo state with it where I'm worried about missing updates and opening a window of vulnerability, but also afraid of updating because Microsoft isn't withdrawing or hotfixing the problematic update in a timely fashion and is seemingly reverting to the old "manual sysadmin" approach of saying it's on us to rollback the update or avoid triggering the error condition until they complete their investigation and do something about it.

As far as my desktop PCs, my Dad owns a company and had access to licenses for Windows Server 2022 (with desktop experience), and I somehow convinced him to let me use that. That one should get support until 2031, but I really, really, wouldn't recommend it for the average user. Overall though, it surprising how much more verbose Server 2022 is about various error conditions than standard Windows 10, along with how many of the rear-facing tools like PowerShell or the error console I'm used to being brought front and center rather than buried, and also how it seems to lack many of the things people here don't like, such as the store and Microsoft accounts. It feels a lot like an older version of Windows with a more modern GUI.

If I didn't know better, I'd think Microsoft only keeps the Home and Pro editions of Windows around at this point as a way of beta testing stuff for Server and Enterprise LTSC users... then again, I thought they used Vista for beta testing Windows 7 too, so this isn't the first time I thought Microsoft did something like that. I will say that I think Windows is now in as much flux today with Windows 11 as it was during the Vista era, and what we're looking at now is likely an incomplete version of a more AI-powered version of Windows.

In an odd way, it is starting to remind me of the old divide between 9x/ME for consumers, and NT for enterprises. Everyone "knew" NT was the good version of Windows, but had to deal with a worse experience on their home PC for a long time. Windows XP was the first attempt to change all that, but now it feels like that divide has somehow come back in a slightly different form... good versions of Windows on the enterprise level, with the consumer version being in constant beta and very unstable.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

User avatar
Mæstro
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 927
Joined: 2019-08-13, 00:30
Location: Casumia

Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Mæstro » 2025-08-28, 01:14

athenian200 wrote:
2025-08-27, 20:20
[Windows Server 2022] seems to lack many of the things people here don't like, such as the store and Microsoft accounts. It feels a lot like an older version of Windows with a more modern GUI.
I have heard so much about Windows 10 LTSC and the like, and I understand that certain users have created comprehensive themes and shells to remove flat design from the younger Windows versions and otherwise model them after their elders. I have never tried these for myself, but knowing these exist makes Windows 10 somewhat more respectable in my eyes. The same could hold for the newest Windows versions also if the same conditions were met.
what we're looking at now is likely an incomplete version of a more AI-powered version of Windows.
I doubt that this is what is happening for two reasons. The first is that it is unclear what an ‘AI-powered version of Windows’ even means. The first clear picture it conjures to mind is implausible. In any case, there is a firm barrier to how much Copilot can inject itself into the system. As long as Peking restricts foreign LLM software, Microsoft could only weave Copilot deeper into Windows on pain of fracturing the OS into Chinese and global versions.
Life is a fever dream Mæstro would enjoy.
How is your computer at 96°C and not on fire?
All posts 100% organic. Ash is the best letter.
What is being nice online?
Debian 10 ELTS / Official PM build