Starting a new app with UXP

Discussions about applications built on UXP that do not have a dedicated board.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-06-28, 21:56

My first release will be for Windows and Ubuntu. I hope it doesn't bother you that intend to target Mac in the future as well, using DBSoft's MXP fork of UXP? I want to target all major platforms for users of all kinds can use my software, as I've done as much as i can with other software I've released (with the exception of Linux when it comes to applications built with the Xamarin platform) and in some cases i only target windows in other (Due to limitations of the libraries I've been using) and in others just macOS.I hope that isn't a problem.

And of course others than just me benefit from this template.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-28, 22:05

noobsoftware wrote:
2021-06-28, 21:56
I want to target all major platforms for users of all kinds can use my software, as I've done as much as i can with other software I've released (with the exception of Linux when it comes to applications built with the Xamarin platform) and in some cases i only target windows in other (Due to limitations of the libraries I've been using) and in others just macOS.I hope that isn't a problem.
That isn't a problem; I suggest you let Mac users know the back-end is different -- and of course any resulting problems will be on your head as a result ;) I hope your experience with Mac people will be less strenuous than ours </understatement>
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-06-28, 22:11

I will do that.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-06-28, 23:37

Moonchild wrote:
2021-06-28, 22:05
That isn't a problem
Except I do have a problem with it. Any support given to enemy forks maintained by scumbag leeches are actions I consider to be against us. I will not support it. I hope you have a copy because that is all you are going to get from me.

dbsoft thinks so little of the codebase we have developed over the past 3 years he is willing to sacrifice it to switch to Waterfox Classic the moment things get too tough and then try and (fail to) paste Pale Moon's front end on it. NO... NO WAY IN HELL will I allow ANY OF YOU to give HIM any kind of legitimization using my specially created work.

There is ALWAYS another shoe to drop.. So, I'm out, you're on your own.
Of course, all these failures mount up and could easily end up costing more collectively than paying a proper rage would.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-06-29, 00:06

I think his dedication to maintaining the MXP platform shows that he won't be switching to waterfox or anything else, but that's just my hope. Thanks for all your effort, and help. I can't do anything but respect your decision although i think your continued work on this would support the future of UXP and XUL based applications. If anyone else on this forum has expertise and knowledge and wants to support the idea of a UXP template that would be nice.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-06-29, 01:57

I think you will find that I am the only game in town. Too bad your poor decisions had to ruin it for everyone else. Guess I am partly to blame too.. I should have looked at your history more closely before agreeing.

Never trust a Mac or a BSD user and using Macintosh makes you both.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-29, 12:50

What a wonderful discussion to wake up to.
(especially after arguing on IRC up to 4 AM about a channel dispute)

I'm sorry but I don't see why this has to be such a problem. If you choose to develop Open Source, then you cannot control who makes use of it. So stop trying.

This isn't a war. We're not intelligence agents and other FOSS developers are not enemies just because they have a different vision of how to develop a project or for what target platform they do so. Of course it is very demotivating if people just ride coattails and consume what we put hard work into as if it's a public utility (those aren't actually free either, you know? They are paid for by everyone). Of course it causes a profound feeling of betrayal if someone manipulates us into putting in extra, specifically targeted work then to just snag up the result and run off holding it high "look what I made!" without acknowledging the effort others put into it or giving back for what was taken. But that doesn't mean it has no value for others who do appreciate the work and will cooperate for a better future.

Tobin: withdrawing your starter XUL application from the public because one person is using it for a target you don't agree with (even if you put in the effort specifically for them or resulting from their request) does nothing but harm the future of XUL since such an example application has been desired and needed for a long time, especially with the sparse documentation (if any) about the build process and how to start a XUL-based application otherwise. If you want the platform to be used, then such an example application is essential as a starting point for people who aren't as intimately familiar with XUL as we are to get started and be able to learn!

So, please, stop waging war (that goes for everyone involved). Stop being greedy on one hand and over-protective on the other. And above all, primarily to the people forking: give back something when you take something. If there is no balance in giving and taking, then there can't be a future.
(What we need most right now is development help. Nobody is helping with the open issues on our tracker. If you are a developer with the capabilities of forking our platform, then you are predisposed to be capable of helping development of the platform you are using for your own purposes too!)

FOSS is (supposed to be) about cooperation and collaboration. But I guess if I can't even expect that any more within our own corner of it, then I guess there is little hope for any actual free (as in freedom) software development overall in the future. If people let their tribal natures dominate, then why bother? More so than the above free-consumerism and lack of reciprocal effort, I'm getting mighty tired of being actually attacked and opposed at every turn by the very people reaping the benefits of my hard work every day.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-06-29, 12:58

Some very good points. When i mange to understand the build process I will create a template application for other users.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-29, 13:29

noobsoftware wrote:
2021-06-29, 12:58
Some very good points. When i mange to understand the build process I will create a template application for other users.
Honestly, I'd prefer it if this reference example was created by someone with existing deep knowledge of the build system (i.e.: Tobin). It's important because it's meant to be used as a template so MUST be correct.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-06-29, 15:48

You made some really good and very valid points. I'll finish what I started.
Of course, all these failures mount up and could easily end up costing more collectively than paying a proper rage would.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-07-03, 12:06

My application (Noob Music) is coming along nicely, but it seems i can really only play mp3 files, which is surprising because i thought ffmpeg was generally equipped to handle all formats. Is there any chance of that changing in the future? Otherwise it leads to me think i should look in to XPCOM better and try to find a library that can play more formats. I was looking into libvlc, but my limited understanding of xpcom and limited understanding of building c++ libraries didn't get me very far. It is my understanding that XPCOM is generally about exposing functions from c++ to javascript and in nightingale they seemed to use DLLs and so files and dylibs, i don't completely understand the difference and range of DLLs but it leads me to wonder if NuGets could be used in UXP and MXP based applications, or if the process of XPCOM can somehow be automated into a process of just selecting packages to add. It's something that I am interested in trying to accomplish, but really don't have expertise in. I understand that for the sake of feasibility and lack of macOS developers that mac was dropped, but i think that what most modern developers look for in a desktop development platform is that it is cross platform and has packages. So if the idea of UXP is to be used for application development for other developers i think these are important things, but of course there is MXP now so the mac point is pretty much moot. I say these things because after starting development on this application i feel how wonderfully fluid and useful the platform is, and i would love to use it as much as possible, especially for applications suited for extensions. The only other platform I've been using for desktop development is the Xamarin platform, which is cross platform and of course has NuGet packages and is a nice platform but it is limited in some cases and is more suited for Apps then full blown applications, and of course does not have the extensibility of XUL/JS. Just some thoughts..

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-07-03, 12:27

Why aren't you just using the platform's media playback capabilities through <video>/<audio> tags, etc.?
UXP supports a good handful of audio formats including mp3, wav, flac, ogg, etc.

You likely want to do that anyway since playing back potentially unsafe content in content browsing context would be what you want to do (you don't want to open up your player to chrome-level access through deliberate content crashes, for example).
Perhaps take come inspiration from the stand-alone media player in Pale Moon.
/platform/toolkit/content/TopLevelVideoDocument.js
/platform/toolkit/themes/shared/media/
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-07-03, 12:33

I'm using the html:audio tag playing wav, m4a and aif doesn't work?

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-07-03, 12:55

It seems this is specific to mac. I get Mime type is not supported.

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-07-03, 13:29

I can't help you with Mac
You'll have to ask elsewhere.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by noobsoftware » 2021-07-03, 14:06

Yup. I see that in windows VLC is somehow activated when playing wav files, I assume that this is somehow disabled on the mac side.

---
The problems was that i had to set the mime-type explicitly (works for wav), does anyone know what the correct mime-type is for m4a?

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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2021-07-03, 14:54

That would be audio/mp4 I think. At least according to the answers to this StackOverflow question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/398 ... -audio-mp4
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-07-03, 15:07

I think you are beyond the scope of this thread at this point. You should consider making a new one or vacating the forum to your own infrastructure.

I am not entirely happy with your insistance to promote hostile target platforms and use us as a resource to try and get more information on them. Asking to be spoonfed basic info doesn't help either.

I feel as though we are being used to create something that will in turn be used against us by some vector at some point. This has the potental to go down a familiar path and as such I need you to detach yourself from us.
Of course, all these failures mount up and could easily end up costing more collectively than paying a proper rage would.
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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-07-03, 16:36

Locking this thread.
Efforts are underway to have a properly documented example XUL application on the developer site and I see this thread becoming either completely offtopic for an application based on a platform fork on an unsupported OS, or an unnecessarily hostile shouting match if people selectively ignore me. I did ask you to ask elsewhere, noob. in this case the correct place would be to ask in the forum of the mac fork that white star is based on.
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