Remember: Plugins are outdated. Topic is solved

General discussion and compatibility support about browser plug-ins.
(e.g. Adobe Flash, Java plugin, authentication plugins, Unity)

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techboyg5

Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by techboyg5 » 2020-05-16, 01:23

Even though Pale Moon and Basilisk will retain NPAPI support, keep in mind that these NPAPI plugins are outdated and have security issues.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by vannilla » 2020-05-16, 01:25

Nothing stops anyone from writing a secure NPAPI plugin.
In fact, there are a few secure plugins out there.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by techboyg5 » 2020-05-16, 01:30

vannilla wrote:
2020-05-16, 01:25
Nothing stops anyone from writing a secure NPAPI plugin.
In fact, there are a few secure plugins out there.
Like what?

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Pentium4User » 2020-05-16, 06:02

techboyg5 wrote:
2020-05-16, 01:23
Even though Pale Moon and Basilisk will retain NPAPI support, keep in mind that these NPAPI plugins are outdated and have security issues.
That depends on the plugin you're using. Flash e.g. uses NPAPI and isn't outdated.
Also Java 8 is still supported.
Powerline adapters (dLAN) hardly interfere shortwave radio, so stop using them.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Moonraker » 2020-05-16, 08:31

In my opinion this is nonsense.Depends on your usage of flash for example and where.I use the flash player on 3-4 sites only and have done with seriously outdated plugins.Misssing a few updates is not disastrous and sometimes updates bring more issues.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Pentium4User » 2020-05-16, 08:59

Moonraker wrote:
2020-05-16, 08:31
In my opinion this is nonsense.Depends on your usage of flash for example and where.I use the flash player on 3-4 sites only and have done with seriously outdated plugins.Misssing a few updates is not disastrous and sometimes updates bring more issues.
Especially Adobe Flash often receives updates to fix security issues.
Not installing them (same applies to other software) is a really bad idea.

Adobe Flash is still supported until the end of the year, so the secure usage is till possible.
Also Java 8 is still supported until the end of 2020 for personal usage (not for business).
But the NPAPI-Plugin of Java 8 isn't supported anymore, I now figured out: https://support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/ ... 723z_4.%20
Silverlight is also still supported until October 2021, but only for IE, support for FF ended years ago.

Most software developers discontinued their NPAPI-Plugins: Shockwave, QuickTime, Adobe Acrobat, Windows Media Player, Oracle Java, VLC
Powerline adapters (dLAN) hardly interfere shortwave radio, so stop using them.

Yes, I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Moonchild » 2020-05-16, 09:21

techboyg5 wrote:
2020-05-16, 01:23
Even though Pale Moon and Basilisk will retain NPAPI support, keep in mind that these NPAPI plugins are outdated and have security issues.
Really? Well since you seem to be so knowledgeable coming in here providing unrequested advice to our community, can you detail some of these security issues? Can they actually be exploited in UXP?
Just because something hasn't been updated doesn't automatically mean it's got security issues. That's inverse reasoning.

NPAPI as a technology isn't a security risk, especially not with the plugins being executed out-of-process as we do.
Additionally, if you don't trust the integrity of a specific plugin, you can set plugins to click-to-execute (ask), so they are only loaded and run after your explicit permission, i.e. when you indicate the execution is desired, so effectively usage is blacklisted everywhere in that case and equal to not having the plugin at all (something that is a lot harder to do with built-in browser features).

I think dissing all plugin use (probably based on some expressed opinion in the grapevine?) just because plugins don't see regular or any updates is a silly notion.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by moonbat » 2020-05-16, 10:01

Moonchild wrote:
2020-05-16, 09:21
NPAPI as a technology isn't a security risk, especially not with the plugins being executed out-of-process as we do.
Additionally, if you don't trust the integrity of a specific plugin, you can set plugins to click-to-execute (ask), so they are only loaded and run after your explicit permission, i.e. when you indicate the execution is desired, so effectively usage is blacklisted everywhere in that case and equal to not having the plugin at all (something that is a lot harder to do with built-in browser features).
It's a great technology like most of what Mozilla abandoned, but as yet are there any besides Flash that are still maintained or supported? I've seen a few mentions of extensions that are officially supported on Pale Moon - some Image grabber and one of the many video downloaders that people talk about. Is there anyone looking for a NPAPI capable browser for their plugin, or willing to support their plugin on Pale Moon? Else it seems once Adobe and Oracle EOL Flash/Java plugins, there will be hardly any left.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-05-16, 11:09

The capability of using the technology is immateral to the specific plugins created for it. So in a few years the obvious ones will end. Does that mean we must kill the technology?

I think not. The only advantage to killing the technology would be to improve code clean up for ipc its self which has to stick around for gmp as well as npapi but the disadvantage is we would loose any sort of true plugin capability.

There is more to npapi than just Flash and Java. You could build a binary extension that also includes not only xpcom binary components but also an npapi plugin to do things like say ietab. Just as an example.

Also, there could be a surge of intrest to open source clones of them too that could be neat like that linux ppapi flash adaptor or that one that tries to be a clone of silverlight or something.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by techboyg5 » 2020-05-16, 11:41

[satrow says: "no more excessive quoting, Rules!" ]

OK, solved!

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Moonraker » 2020-05-16, 12:24

What about websites notably flash gamesites which would wish to continue offering games even after the proposed EOL for flash.
Say for example if the version i have installed at the moment could be used for a further year providing the particular sites i use accomodate it..just because something is not updated does not mean i should just stop using..im sorry but sod google dictation.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Pentium4User » 2020-05-16, 12:37

Then I highly recommend click to play or another browser profile where you only visit trusted sites to avoid any attacks.
I also sometimes use outdated software like QuickTime or Windows XP if I need them for old software.
Powerline adapters (dLAN) hardly interfere shortwave radio, so stop using them.

Yes, I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Andrew Herbert » 2020-06-05, 12:00

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2020-05-16, 11:09
There is more to npapi than just Flash and Java. You could build a binary extension that also includes not only xpcom binary components but also an npapi plugin to do things like say ietab. Just as an example.
Supposing that someone wants to make a UXP-based Telegram client, could TDLib be implemented with NPAPI?

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by vannilla » 2020-06-05, 12:13

Andrew Herbert wrote:
2020-06-05, 12:00
Supposing that someone wants to make a UXP-based Telegram client, could TDLib be implemented with NPAPI?
I think you can use TDLib as-is (assuming there are C++ bindings.)
At the most basic level NPAPI is a set of functions to render within the document some content that the browser would otherwise be unable to.
With NPAPI you can set up the user interface and use TDLib to communicate with Telegram.

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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-06-05, 12:16

That would be something more along the lines of an xpcom binary component that hooks in to it.. Or you could use javascript ctypes. A plugin wouldn't make much sense here.

Though, be warned: binary extensions are processor arch and os specific. Cross-platform is much harder here and you would have to provide the specific binary components for each arch and os thereof.
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Re: Remember: Plugins are outdated.

Post by Isengrim » 2020-06-05, 16:31

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2020-06-05, 12:16
binary extensions are processor arch and os specific. Cross-platform is much harder here and you would have to provide the specific binary components for each arch and os thereof.
Off-topic:
Is the UXP build system capable of building extensions that use XPCOM binary components, or does the compiling need to be done entirely outside of the platform? That would make cross-platform building much simpler. Unfortunately, most of the information about building binary extensions with the Mozilla build system is outdated or incomplete, and there are few present-day examples outside of complete applications.
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