Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Support and discussions for the x86/x64 Linux version of Pale Moon.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-10-02, 03:28

GTK4 will have to wait.. We likely will start research into it next year but to avoid the massive moving target bullshit we had with GTK3 we likely won't support it officially for a long time. So you aren't likely to see a mainline build with GTK4 until EL 9 or at least a few years. As GTK3 will be in maintenance mode for years to come there isn't much to be concerned about. Just know it is on our radar.

For clarification I want to give you all a simplified plan as far as OUR builds go:

Linux 32bit / EL 6 build env / GCC 4.9 / GTK 2.24 / Minimum glibc 2.12 / Ends November 30th, 2020
Current Linux 64bit (GTK2 Version) / EL 7 build env / GCC 7 or 8 / GTK 2.24 / Minimum glibc 2.17 / Ends June 30th, 2024
Future Linux 64bit GTK3 Version / EL 8 build env / GCC 8+ / GTK 3.22 / Minimum glibc 2.28 / Ends whenever EL 8 does
Long Term Linux 64bit GTK4 Version / Who the hell knows yet...

Let me restate that these combinations and this plan is for production of OUR released binaries. System Packagers and Power Users may use what is appropriate for their system and we doing UXP Development are being very mindful to not unnecessarily bust building potential without cause of which I can see none at this time.. So you can compile a GTK2 build using GCC 5 on a 32bit machine with a glibc version 2.42 if you want. I see no reason to artificially prevent you from doing that.. but of course I don't recommend it. ;)

ALSO I talked to Travis early this morning and he is on board with all this and likely will be taking over builds again by the next release and the unstables now.

BinOC Projects will also likely align with this plan and why not? I came up with it.

THE ONE uncovered point as of yet is Basilisk.. That will require some thinking but expect it to likely follow the plan for the Future Linux GTK3 version eventually.. Whenever it seems like a good time for that to happen. Perhaps sometime next year.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by fatboy » 2019-10-02, 05:38

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback Tobin.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Lunokhod » 2019-10-03, 00:48

palemoon-28.8.0a1.linux-gtk3-x86_64.tar.bz2 is working on Devuan Beowulf.
Mostly it is simply the Ascii iso upgraded but I'm currently using this kernel (which is supposedly better for laptop/desktop use):
linux-image-5.2.0-18.1-liquorix-amd64_5.2-27.1~buster_amd64.deb
https://liquorix.net/debian/pool/main/l/linux-liquorix/
as the Ascii one on the iso had a non working intel wifi driver and the Ascii backport one didn't boot to the desktop on my hw.

Code: Select all

$ aptitude show libc6
Package: libc6                           
Version: 2.28-10
$ aptitude show libc-bin
Package: libc-bin                        
Version: 2.28-10
$ uname -r
5.2.0-18.1-liquorix-amd64
I started palemoon in the terminal and no error messages so far :D

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by bif_bam » 2020-01-15, 18:49

I know this thread is getting a bit old, but it's the most recent I could find which mentions gtk3 builds. I'm currently attempting to build (for a OpenSuSE-based micro distro I maintain on the OBS) Palemoon against GTK3. The reasons for this basically come down to gtk2 breakage which has crept in, leading to FREQUENT segfaults in PM (all gtk2 apps actually but PM is the only one I use with regularity so that's my pain point :) ). The bug itself is actually the very very old issue of gtk2 themes borking the pixmap libs, but no matter who I talk to upstream, I'm told it's someone else's fault/problem to fix. Of late, it's gotten so bad I have to keep another browser (waterfox-classic being the least annoying currently) available to open the occasional page I encounter which consistently crashes PM.

The obvious solution is to jump to gtk3 builds, but I find that I CANNOT build a gtk3-only PM - it's insisting on requiring (and using AFAICT) the gtk2 devel packages too, which of course leads me back to the original crashing problem. Is there any way to to a gtk2-free build, using gtk3 libs only?

On a side note, I also attempted to use python3 instead of 2 for the build, but it also failed (due to assumptions about the sub-module structure of the python xml module IIRC). That's a minor thing though, as I have no particular need to not use python2, only the curiosity of whether it would work, since p2 was recently EOL :)

Thanks very much, and I mightily enjoy and appreciate all the work you guys do.
t.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by bif_bam » 2020-01-15, 21:25

So a quick and ugly workaround I found was to let the build proceed as it likes (e.g. with both gtk2 and gtk3), then `%exclude /usr/lib64/newmoon/gtk2/libmozgtk.so` in the spec's `%files` section.

It appears to work fine (and no crashes so far -- yahoo!) but I'm not sure I haven't e.g. broken theming, or that some XUL add-on is gonna freak out, or some such :)

Are there any downsides, or reasons I should expect any weirdness (or wrongness) using this approach?

Thanks again for a great, lightweight and usable browser!
t.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-01-15, 21:36

GTK3 builds use shared code that GTK2 also uses. Just install the eq of gtk2 devel packages and you'll be fine. There WILL be a generic build GTK3 version of Pale Moon eventually but there are some bigger fish to fry and it requires infra and code changes to support a proper release, largely AUS related.

I'd say, look towards Milestone 29 for this to happen. HOWEVER, keep in mind that as part of the revised roadmap for the Pale Moon for Linux Generic Binaries that the GTK3 build will require a RHEL 8-level equivalent system. So glibc 2.28+.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by bif_bam » 2020-01-15, 22:08

Sweet! Thanks for the feedback. I'll stay posted and be patient then...

$ rpm -q glibc
glibc-2.30-2.1.x86_64

so I don't see any worries there at least :)

Thanks again
t.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Moonraker » 2020-01-15, 22:18

Thank you for the clarification in regard to the linux 32bit builds.I am one of the minority 32bit users,Hopefully (fingers crossed) i should be upgraded to a 64bit computer so i can still use this superb browser which i have enjoyed for many years on this old 32bit laptop.I really do not want to use any other browser so upgrading will be a priority. :D
Xenial puppy linux 32-bit.

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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Coastie » 2020-01-16, 16:19

:(
Last edited by Coastie on 2020-01-16, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-01-16, 17:04

I have no idea why you posted in this thread if you are that simple minded and uninformed about the very basics of the technology and systems you employ.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Moonchild » 2020-01-16, 20:10

Off-topic:
I'd have thought it would be obvious that posting in a thread topic you know nothing about really isn't helpful for anyone.
But I guess since it needs to be spelled out, we now have a forum rule for it: app.php/rules#rule-1c
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Pentium4User » 2020-01-17, 19:58

Linux 32bit / EL 6 build env / GCC 4.9 / GTK 2.24 / Minimum glibc 2.12 / Ends November 30th, 2020
So, this means that there is no future for i386 builds of Pale Moon after Nov 2020?

Why won't be there build with newer versions of the dependencies? Doesn't that technically work?
Distributions like Debian still support i386 and I still use it on processors without an amd64 instruction set, like old Intel Atoms or Pentium M.

Even if these builds are slower, Pale Moon could still be used on old netbooks (with Intel Atom without Intel 64) and i386 only processors.
Yes, I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon. It is located at my grandfather's house and runs Lubuntu 18.04 x64. It was my main system until 2018, when I got a Pentium D system that got replaced by a Ryzen 2700 in 2019.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Moonchild » 2020-01-17, 20:31

Pentium4User wrote:
2020-01-17, 19:58
So, this means that there is no future for i386 builds of Pale Moon after Nov 2020?
In case you missed what Tobin said: no official builds -- others may of course still release contributed (unofficial) builds for i386 but we won't do it or support them.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-01-17, 21:07

Package maintainers may also continue to do 32bit builds for their 32bit targets. Such as Steve who does the Debian Builds will still produce a 32bit package if Debian still has 32bit versions of their distro.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by Pentium4User » 2020-01-17, 21:11

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2020-01-17, 21:07
Package maintainers may also continue to do 32bit builds for their 32bit targets. Such as Steve who does the Debian Builds will still produce a 32bit package if Debian still has 32bit versions of their distro.
Ok, that's a good message.

EDIT: So that means, after Nov 2020 only the official tarballs from https://linux.palemoon.org/download/mainline/ won't be provided for the i386 architecture (32 bit).
Yes, I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon. It is located at my grandfather's house and runs Lubuntu 18.04 x64. It was my main system until 2018, when I got a Pentium D system that got replaced by a Ryzen 2700 in 2019.
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Re: Current State of Pale Moon for Linux and the Future

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-01-17, 21:31

Yes, as I originally said.

in 2024, the GTK2 Linux 64 build won't be provided either. But the same thing applies. Oh and a gtk3 build which was delayed will be happening at or shortly after Milestone 29 lands. Will target modern EL8+ level distros.
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