major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

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major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonraker » 2019-04-21, 13:18

https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads ... st-2822000
They are a bit late to the party are they not.?
PM has this disabled anyway.Certain extensions stop this too.
Is this really privacy issue.?
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonchild » 2019-04-21, 13:33

Moonraker wrote:
2019-04-21, 13:18
Is this really privacy issue.?
It can be for those who mistakenly think they are not being recorded by code that website owners place on sites themselves (1st party). But otherwise it's as stated more of a tinfoil hat issue. Not that I agree with having pings enabled by default myself since it can be embedded by anyone who has access to website code (which means also all framework devs and others who can convince people to add code they don't control to their website) -- but it's a good option to have for debugging at least as an opt-in.
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-04-21, 14:36

Moonraker wrote:major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.
That's not correct.

The linked discussion and BleepingComputer article that it discusses
(Major Browsers to Prevent Disabling of Click Tracking Privacy Risk) are actually saying just the opposite.
Those browsers are removing users' ability to disable hyperlink auditing (also check out ghacks article).

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-04-21, 14:42

I love fake news! Yes, they are removing the ability for it to be disabled. Mozilla will follow suit once it is finalized in Quantum.
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Frasier » 2019-04-21, 17:15

Part of a quote from an email sent to BleepingComputer by Mozilla:
the reason we don’t yet enable the hyperlink ping attribute is that our implementation of this feature isn’t yet complete.
Send_pings.png
Makes it sound as though the existing about:config entry has been superfluous all this time? Surely thats not the case:
951104 - Enable <a ping> by default. So which Mozilla has the story straight?

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonchild » 2019-04-21, 17:24

comment 42 just indicates they want to move forward with enabling it by default, but want to double-check for any differences (there likely aren't any) and address them first.
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by adesh » 2019-04-21, 18:00

There is some IRONY here. Spec says that it makes link tracking transparent to the user and instructs browsers to display "ping information" through status bar or tooltip widgets. However, implementations have followed quite the opposite - browsers hide this essential information (on purpose?), and poor users have no idea their link clicks are being notified to trackers (they are happy with JavaScript disabled!).

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by shevy » 2019-04-22, 01:10

I don't see this as a "tinfoil hat" issue at all.

To be honest, I do not think the browser that the user uses, and pays for through energy bill, should provide information
that the user has no control over to ANY external party.

I also don't see any possible justification for that.

I guess the sensible thing to do would be to let users decide what they want to have, how to use the software.

What I find not acceptable is Mozilla dictating the code downstream. I think this creates a problematic situation overall - you
have on the one hand an organization, does not matter which one it is (Google, Mozilla, Microsoft), that forces the behaviour
onto you, as a user; and on the other hand, YOU, as a user, have no real control over it.

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by shevy » 2019-04-22, 01:19

> poor users have no idea their link clicks are being notified to trackers

I guess there may still be a possibility e. g. through ghostery, ublock origin and so forth, but admittedly many may not know about it
or care about.

What I find the most surprising is ... can you even trust big browser vendors anymore? Let's for the moment ignore the issue over
whether this is a "feature" or a "security risk" - at the end of the day, who decides? You, as the end user using software, or the
software vendor dictating a set of feature downstream onto you?

We have something like the linux kernel which is quite modular. And then we have browser vendors who make it increasingly
hard to fine tune the browser to any of your personal preference(s) as a user. For savvy people this may not be a huge problem,
but ... regular users? They are like at a complete mercy at what vendors decide for them.

People rightfully point out how Google has become evil but I see little difference to Mozilla, in spirit (not in scope, of course; Google
is just the 10000 pounds behemoth in the room).

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonchild » 2019-04-22, 05:40

shevy wrote:
2019-04-22, 01:10
I don't see this as a "tinfoil hat" issue at all.

To be honest, I do not think the browser that the user uses, and pays for through energy bill, should provide information
that the user has no control over to ANY external party.

I also don't see any possible justification for that.
I'm sorry but you are entirely mistaken if you think that your energy bill has anything to do with browser software development. You pay the energy bill to use your computer, that's all. We never see a penny of that (neither does Google or Mozilla). You are not paying for browser use -- the mere notion that you can link these two things is simply nonsense.

Then there is the nature of webpages. These pings are embedded by the website owners or with their explicit consent. That means that these pings are always sent on purpose. It doesn't expose you to anyone who doesn't otherwise already have the option to track you. So it's very much mostly a tinfoil hat issue, and website owners have every justification to outsource anything they want or organize their infra any way they please. You, as a user are a visitor to websites -- you are their guest, not their boss.
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by gepus » 2019-04-22, 08:05

adesh wrote:
2019-04-21, 18:00
on purpose?
The question is rhetorical.
It's even more evident now with no option in the browser to turn that feature off. Consider it to be the new spec. :)

Another rhetorical question would be: Whom are mainstream browser vendors catering? Content providers or the user?
Guess where the $$$ are coming from...

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by superA » 2019-04-22, 15:19

Moonchild post wrote: you are their guest, not their boss.
I actually think the opposite.
They want my money, I am a client and I want to buy their services, I dont visit their sites to see their health contition,
or to say ''hallo'' and that makes me their boss.
If they want to track my clicks, refereres, my history or cache is because they want to push me with more ads
it's their right after all as you said.
My right, is to visit their site on my own terms.

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonchild » 2019-04-22, 15:28

superA wrote:
2019-04-22, 15:19
My right, is to visit their site on my own terms.
Your right is to visit their site or go elsewhere. THAT is your only right.

Of course it is in their own interest to make your visit pleasant but in no way are you in any position where you can demand that a store owner lays out their store differently and they have to listen to you. If you think that's the case, then I challenge you to go to your nearest convenience store and make similar demands of the owners -- see how much and what type of a response you get.
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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by superA » 2019-04-22, 16:28

I make no demands, that is simply NOT the case.

I''ll visit their site to buy smthing, not only cause I like their products
but also because I like their attitute, their ''way''..
so we're talking about diffrent things I guess.
Speaking about stores and owners, I want to see you going to your favorite store with money
ostentatiously in your hands..and make no demands..

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by snertev » 2019-04-23, 10:23

Moonchild wrote:
2019-04-22, 15:28
superA wrote:
2019-04-22, 15:19
My right, is to visit their site on my own terms.
Your right is to visit their site or go elsewhere. THAT is your only right.

Of course it is in their own interest to make your visit pleasant but in no way are you in any position where you can demand that a store owner lays out their store differently and they have to listen to you. If you think that's the case, then I challenge you to go to your nearest convenience store and make similar demands of the owners -- see how much and what type of a response you get.
Well, indeed, any store (on line ones too) has to respect laws in order to be on the market and any customer can ask that store to respect those laws.

So, we, as customers, have a lot more rights than that you describe above.

Edit: And there are other laws for common websites too.

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Re: major browsers to stop hyperlink auditing.

Post by Moonchild » 2019-04-23, 14:20

Locking this thread since it's become a blame fest for things that has nothing to do at all with the original topic (which was incorrect to begin with as we found out)
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