AdNauseam extension blocked

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redblade7

Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by redblade7 » 2017-08-28, 01:07

I had no idea Pale Moon even had a blocklist. I can change the URLs to localhost, but how do I disable it completely?

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by adisib » 2017-08-28, 01:11

Off-topic:
Defiant wrote: The only people telling us we shouldn't use it are engaged in wide spread psychological influence. They're making money by screwing with our heads day in and day out. They effect our lives in ways most of us do not recognize. The Internet is not an advertisement. There's nothing built in, no law, that forces us to tolerate this massive invasion of privacy. People such as yourself, who welcome that with open arms, you are most certainly part of the problem.
You blatantly assume my position, and are presenting a double standard. You are attacking advertisers for doing things that are perfectly legal, then defending your own actions as saying it is fine because it is perfectly legal. I have no love of such companies, but such a clearly destructive way of fighting is unacceptable and your argument for your position abysmal.

People aren't really arguing for allowing user choice here. They are arguing for their own ideology to be pushed into the browser. Then they turn around and claim that pushing an ideology is disgusting and accusing Pale Moon of doing so. You are shoving your ideology in my face in a terrible way, and that is the only problem here. If you want Pale Moon to remove the addon from the blocklist, try giving them a reason for it instead of insisting on your irrelevant ideology.

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Latitude » 2017-08-28, 02:53

As far as we could modify how Pale Moon works, it's still OK for me.

freefrog

Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by freefrog » 2017-08-28, 02:55

Moonchild, you've proven yourself as dense as a cinderblock with the torrent of valid, rational arguments that are not sinking into your head, so let's try this from another direction.

I, and many others am going to spread this censorship decision of yours far and wide. This single, idiotic decision of yours will destroy the ONLY point of interest anyone looked at your browser in the first place. It does not matter if you see it as a malware/non-ideological decision - it only matters how the user sees it. And because of your arrogant stance on this position, they will dry up and abandon you.

So go ahead, debate this all you want. Cross your arms and stand defiantly against your own people, confident that you are right. Plant your feet atop of your castle of sand, and sink into into your mountain of dust - Because that's all that's going to be left; You alone, holding your abandoned, limp-dick browser in your hand.

But hey, at least you were "right," right?

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Latitude » 2017-08-28, 03:01

redblade7 wrote:I had no idea Pale Moon even had a blocklist.
Firefox has a blocklist too.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting

"Blocklisting is the ability to disable errant add-ons, plugins, and other third-party software for Firefox (and Pale Moon) users."

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by kevopa » 2017-08-28, 04:47

Because this thread informing users about an illegal extension that has been blacklisted has devolved into a bunch of people calling the lead developer names and blackmailing him, I'd request this thread to be closed.

Personally speaking, if I were the lead developer I'd rather have these users leave, they are the most toxic elements of any community. After all if it's a "limp-dick browser" that is imposing "1984"-like "ideological" that curtails their right to "free speech", why haven't they already left?

It may be useful to check for any sockpuppetry that may have been going on here, since most of the comments seem to be from new users who have just registered here. Very few forum regulars seem to be active in this thread.

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by adisib » 2017-08-28, 05:05

Off-topic:
kevopa wrote:Because this thread informing users about an illegal extension that has been blacklisted has devolved into a bunch of people calling the lead developer names and blackmailing him, I'd request this thread to be closed.
The people are the problem, not the thread. So there is no reason to close it. Deal with the problem where it is, though I don't think people wanting to express outrage without having anything worth saying is necessarily a reason to kick them out, especially when they have no place to go. Too many threads get unnecessarily closed here.

TopRamenChef

Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by TopRamenChef » 2017-08-28, 05:35

I'm in the same boat as a lot of you guys who migrated from Firefox or other cucked browsers. Personally, I had the same immediate reaction, but I honestly don't see any major punishment for using this addon. MoonChild has been very detailed about how to unblock AdNauseam and continue the same browsing experience we have thus far enjoyed. I got the notification, found this forum through DuckDuckGo, unblocked it, and went on my merry way. This block is put in place because of its intent to harm much like malware, and we can unblock it with just a minute of research. All this really would do is get people that don't intend to hurt ad revenue to switch to another perfectly good adblocker. Pale Moon still allows us to use it; we just have to check a box that says, "Hey that's exactly what I wanted when I downloaded this." Then we go on our merry way.

MoonChild is not being shady about the reasons or the actions you can take. If anything, trust that honesty. Praise MoonChild. *Werewolf howling* :D

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-08-28, 06:49

Since people are clearly intent on not understanding or comprehending what all I've said to clarify the block for it being malicious by design and instead just want to state their ivory tower viewpoints and make this about sensationalism rather than anything else, swiftly spiraling into personal attacks, I'll state this once more, and won't be participating in this thread any further.
You people can figure out yourself what you want to do from this point forward; continue using Pale Moon (with or without AdNauseam), or stop using it because I don't want to stand idly by while people destroy what little is left of sustainable website ownership.
Blame me for not agreeing with using Pale Moon as a vessel to cause destruction and marking it as undesirable.

For clarification, to state it as simple as possible in one sentence for everyone who doesn't have an attention span to read and comprehend a paragraph or two:
In its current state the extension is malicious software. Its actions and operation intend to harm, by design.
The real problem is that the harm is done entirely as collateral to unrelated and innocent third parties (website owners).
Blocking this (with the option to override if this is really what you wanted to do) is the only reasonable response to such an extension.
That is all there is to it. Any other assumptions made (e.g. political, ideological, "Google buddy") are incorrect.

PS: AdNauseam is the only extension with the stated severity level at this time. Increasing the block level to allow this level won't change anything as regards your actual safety (all directly-harming extensions to browser users (security/privacy/trojans/etc.) have a severity of 3).
Level "2" is reserved for exactly this intermediate class of undesirable extensions that don't directly impact the browser user.
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ozoak

AdNauseum Extension Blocked [civil discussion?]

Unread post by ozoak » 2017-08-28, 07:00

So, some remarks, in case anyone is curious.

I have an android phone, and for reasons that are my own I allow Google to 'do its thing' with it. As such I have the Google Now cards (or whatever they calls themselves these days) and a feed of articles relevant to topics I'm interested in.
If you thought this would be a 'quiet' thing, you may be mistaken. Due to my interest in 'adblocking' Google has thrown this thread into my feed. And if it's in my feed, I would think it's a safe bet it's in others. There's some irony here, believe me I'm aware :D but worth noting that whilst I'd used adnauseum in the past and I'd used Pale Moon in the past, if you think this is being announced to just the forum regulars you'd be mistaken.

And then I have questions, some speak to the decision itself, others to the mechanism used to enforce the decision.

Moonchild wrote: "the premise behind this [AdNauseum Extension] is similar to poisoning trackers with false fingerprints (which we are proponents of, ourselves), and we normally let users decide for themselves what they want to do with their browser, we are strictly against allowing extensions that cause direct damage (including damage to third parties). There is a subtle but important difference between blocking content and generating fake user interaction."

I speak for myself of course, but based on feedback I am not alone in sharing this opinion: I believe that logic does not hold up to scrutiny. Ad networks/providers/etc sell themselves, at least in part, on providing relevant ads which would in turn then generate the clicks and in turn the revenue. Poisoning trackers with false fingerprints, as you say Pale Moon supports, directly reduces the relevance of the ads being shown to a site visitor, as visitors are less likely to click non-relevant ads it has a direct affect on the revenue derived from the ads presented. Further, 'traditional' ad blocking prevents ads from being shown at all, and so no visible ads, no clicks, no revenue. You could reasonable argue that the scale of the impact on revenue may be greater as a result of an addon like AdNauseum, but to argue that one impacts revenue directly whilst others do not is false.

As a side bar, a hint for some introspective thinking: is every addition to the block list graced with a forum thread announcing the addition? I should think that on review the awareness that it needed an announcement speaks to the quality of the decision itself. As I said, introspective suggestion only - no answer required.

Finally, the mechanism itself for 'allowing' it to run. Whilst I run neither Pale Moon (though like others it was a contender for me to change to with the imminent Firefox v57 changes) nor AdNauseum, I have questions about how I enable it, or more specifically the implications of doing so, should I choose to run Pale Moon + AdNauseum.

Moonchild wrote: "the extension has been added to the Pale Moon blocklist with a severity level of 2 (meaning you won't be able to enable it unless you increase the blocking level in about:config to 3)"

I'm assuming the primary purpose of the blocklist is to prevent threats to the Pale Moon users system, I'm assuming that typically entails blocking extensions linked to known malware sources, privacy invasions, that sort of thing.
Those threats are given a 'severity level' clearly.
And so now let me get this logic right, if my assumptions are largely correct: I order to facilitate a user enabling an extension that does no harm to their own system, they must weaken their defences and make their system vulnerable to threats which do actually target a users system?

I'm curious, are the other items on the blocklist that cause no harm to the users system, or is AdNauseum the first?

ed: (thanks to whomever that was) I do get the logic, though I may disagree to an extent, I think I ultimately disagree with the mechanism, if not for my own needs but for the people who use AdNauseum. If it can only be enabled by weakening the overall security of the browser, is there no other mechanism available to block it by default but allow a user-override? Can't individually unblock extensions flagged by the blocklist?
Last edited by ozoak on 2017-08-28, 07:17, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Cassette » 2017-08-28, 07:08

There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth over what is, essentially, a classification of an extension that people don't agree with. It is blocked under normal settings, but they can be easily changed and you can go on using the extension as you like. Those throwing temper tantrums over this decision and predicting a mass exodus are over estimating the portion of the user base who 1, use this extension, and 2, are as bothered making relatively easy settings changes as they are. Really, if you are extremely upset by this, there isn't a browser in existence that would satisfy you.

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Re: AdNauseum Extension Blocked [civil discussion?]

Unread post by adisib » 2017-08-28, 07:22

ozoak wrote: And so now let me get this logic right, if my assumptions are largely correct: I order to facilitate a user enabling an extension that does no harm to their own system, they must weaken their defences and make their system vulnerable to threats which do actually target a users system?
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the blocking level setting will not uninstall any previously installed addons. So I would think it is as simple as change the setting, install the addon, then restore the block list setting to what it was before. So there should be no risk or vulnerability at all unless you forgot to change the setting back for some odd reason before installing more addons. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: I was wrong, see below.
Last edited by adisib on 2017-08-28, 07:53, edited 1 time in total.

muhammadAbeed

Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by muhammadAbeed » 2017-08-28, 07:24

I came here from firefox to escape political biases and authoritarian leveraging of the software i run on my own computer. I'm disappointed by Pale Moons decision to attempt to enforce a different user experience than I wish to have on what should be unbiased utility software. I will no longer be using Pale Moon as actions like this are a clear red flag as to where the Pale Moon is heading and I'm not going to invest any more time or learning curve into it in light of this action. I hear that IRIDIUM browser is promising, I'd implore people who care about personal freedom and open, unbiased utility software to check it out as well.

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Re: AdNauseum Extension Blocked [civil discussion?]

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-08-28, 07:33

adisib wrote:I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the blocking level setting will not uninstall any previously installed addons. So I would think it is as simple as change the setting, install the addon, then restore the block list setting to what it was before. So there should be no risk or vulnerability at all unless you forgot to change the setting back for some odd reason before installing more addons. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Sorry, but no, you're incorrect. The block list level takes effect on already-installed extensions as well.

However:
AdNauseam is the only extension with the stated severity level at this time. Increasing the block level to allow this level won't change anything as regards your actual safety (all directly-harming extensions to browser users (security/privacy/trojans/etc.) have a severity of 3).
Level "2" is reserved for exactly this intermediate class of undesirable extensions that don't directly impact the browser user but cause direct harm to others.
There hasn't been a need for this because in general, extension developers fall in either one of 2 categories: They either genuinely want to extend the browser with useful functionality, or they write extensions to attack the browser user. This one is neither, and the block is as much an exceptional situation as the extension itself is a rare exception to this rule. (and exceptional responses are never an indication of general direction, either)

One last remark:
ozoak wrote:is every addition to the block list graced with a forum thread announcing the addition? I should think that on review the awareness that it needed an announcement speaks to the quality of the decision itself.
I created this thread in direct anticipation of people throwing a fit over the block, because we're talking about activism. Proponents of AdNauseam are activists and going to be vocal. In lieu of having 1000 threads opened with obvious repeat questions, I intended to inform with this thread. Was I wrong in trying to be as clear as possible?
I wanted to provide full transparency why this was done while not a direct security or stability problem for browser users. You can turn that around like you do, but that wasn't the intent or reasoning behind starting this topic. I've already stated this in my opening sentence on the very first post here, as well -- did that get lost in the noise later on in the thread?
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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Giraffe » 2017-08-28, 08:20

Now, let me see: an extension is designated as harmful to some web sites; the 'block' on it is clearly explained and is easily circumvented with no other consequences; if I want to use it (which, as it happens, I don't) I can do so very easily.
This really is evil dictatorship - I'm so glad that it didn't happen with, say, Flash, otherwise I might have had to go to all the trouble of enabling that.

I'll start looking for a browser that will let me run all of my favourite extensions and plugins without blocking, incompatibility or interference. Now, let me see - I've got it! Firefox 57! Yeah, bye!
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adesh
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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by adesh » 2017-08-28, 08:33

Cassette wrote:Really, if you are extremely upset by this, there isn't a browser in existence that would satisfy you.
You spoke my mind! :thumbup:

This is the first time I am hearing about AdNauseam and I don't see what the utility of this extension is for a user. Ad networks may be bad, immoral and a nuisance but generating false clicks is also a lying big, and unethical.

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by Vlad the implier » 2017-08-28, 09:31

adesh wrote:
Cassette wrote:Really, if you are extremely upset by this, there isn't a browser in existence that would satisfy you.
You spoke my mind! :thumbup:

This is the first time I am hearing about AdNauseam and I don't see what the utility of this extension is for a user. Ad networks may be bad, immoral and a nuisance but generating false clicks is also a lying big, and unethical.
Might be true, but the argument against this ban is another point entirely, purely symbolic if you will.
We chose to migrate away from browsers, which have time and time again proven to sell out information or restrict the way we want to see the internet. Someone else's opinion does not belong on my machine.
Now suddenly the opinion of another made a flashing popup when installing the addon, telling me I'm installing maleware with a forum post stating, that my decision is harmful to others. Why is again someone telling me, what is right from wrong, what is moral and what is not?
That is my decision to make.

The blocklist is there to protect me and my security, not the interest of others. I don't disagree with the moral argument you make (despite ad nauseum by default not clicking / blocking non-track adds), but that decision is mine, but pale moon chose to decide for me.
Your browser your way, but only until the creator deems my actions immoral...

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by back2themoon » 2017-08-28, 09:41

Vlad the implier wrote:...
Enough with the trolling, before the browser (or any program) allows you to do anything, it has to allow what it does for itself. This decision was not made for you, but for the browser itself. The browser now considers that extension problematic/malware or whatever, it hasn't decided what you should consider about anything, or crushed your freedom of thinking/speech/love etc. I'd totally lock this thread, everyone had their say and now we're going the troll circles. I am sure you can take the "FreeAdNauseam" crusade elsewhere...
Last edited by back2themoon on 2017-08-28, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by testator777 » 2017-08-28, 09:44

Glad it is easy to disable this blocklist atleast. Keep up the work you do Moonchild!
Off-topic:
Giraffe wrote:This really is evil dictatorship - I'm so glad that it didn't happen with, say, Flash, otherwise I might have had to go to all the trouble of enabling that.
Did you read the rules and conditions of using this forum? Or the webbrowser? Fork the browser if you don't like the terms and conditions. See https://forum.palemoon.org/app.php/rules if you have not read the forum rules. To quote the board maker.
This is not a democracy. You are in my house, and you are my guests.
Please behave yourself accordingly.

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Re: AdNauseam extension blocked

Unread post by back2themoon » 2017-08-28, 09:49

testator777 wrote:Did you read the rules and conditions of using this forum? Or the webbrowser? Fork the browser if you don't like the terms and conditions. See https://forum.palemoon.org/app.php/rules if you have not read the forum rules. To quote the board maker.
I think Giraffe's post was ironic, so your reply probably doesn't really apply there directly.
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