Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH Topic is solved

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2008WindowsVista

Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by 2008WindowsVista » 2017-06-24, 18:15

Hello everyone.
As the author of a thread on MSFN.org titled "Last versions of software for Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008" (link at end of post for those interested), I have been testing various web browsers on the OS to see what works and what doesn't. As such, I recently decided to try out Pale Moon 64-bit on my test Windows Vista virtual machine (64 bit, SP2, all updates to June 2017). What I found was an issue that I ended up tracing all the way back to Pale Moon 27.0.0 64-bit (26.5.0 and earlier, as well as all 32 bit versions of Pale Moon up to the latest version are exempt from this issue). I don't believe the problem is on my end either, as I also tried the browser on a separate Windows Server 2008 (x64, fully up to date) virtual machine and was able to reproduce the same problem.
Anyway, onto the problem: after installing Pale Moon 27.0.0 or later, upon attempting to launch the browser, I'm greeted with the following error message (NOTE: for v 27.0.x, I used Pale Moon portable, since the installers won't run in Vista):
Pale Moon web browser has stopped working
Problem details:
Problem event name: APPCRASH
Application Name: palemoon.exe
Application version: 27.3.0.6321
Application Timestamp: 58fbd80c
Fault Module Name: MSVCR120.dll
Fault Module Version: 12.9.21005.1
You get the idea...
Now, I'm aware that Windows Vista is no longer actively supported by Microsoft (although the Server 2008 updates can be installed on Vista, which has been tried and tested by several MSFN members, myself included, but I digress...), and after a discussion with moonchild back in January 2016 about Vista support, I was told that there were no guarantees that everything would work smoothly on it.
However, since Pale Moon 64-bit still claims to support Windows Vista, I found it prudent to report this issue so it can either be fixed, or Pale Moon 64-bit can simply drop support for Vista and the system requirements page can be updated to reflect this. This would prevent any confusion for any potential Vista users seeking to install the 64-bit version of Pale Moon, only to be greeted with this error.
Although, despite the fact that I no longer use Windows Vista, I hope the issue can be fixed to somewhat extend the longevity of Windows Vista, as there seems to be no more 64-bit browsing options that support the OS (I reiterate, 32 bit versions of Pale Moon are not affected by this, only the 64 bit version. Pale Moon 27.3.0 32 bit works perfectly fine in Windows Vista).
Last versions of software for Vista/2008: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/175262- ... rver-2008/
Thanks in advance,
-2008WindowsVista

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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-06-24, 21:15

MSVCR120.DLL is the Microsoft Visual C runtime library. That is Microsoft's code, not ours.
I can look into what rubs the library the wrong way (and see if I can work around it), but only if you can provide me with a full crash dump (since I have neither access to the OS, nor a way to reproduce the crash, and for this I'd need a full stack trace).
Please follow the instructions here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13044
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2008WindowsVista

Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by 2008WindowsVista » 2017-06-25, 18:38

Moonchild wrote:MSVCR120.DLL is the Microsoft Visual C runtime library. That is Microsoft's code, not ours.
I can look into what rubs the library the wrong way (and see if I can work around it), but only if you can provide me with a full crash dump (since I have neither access to the OS, nor a way to reproduce the crash, and for this I'd need a full stack trace).
Please follow the instructions here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13044
Hello.
I posted about this issue over at MSFN: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/175262- ... nt=1140826
I found that other users were experiencing the same issue I was, and one user was able to come up with a solution: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/175262- ... nt=1140855

According to this MS article: (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... le-package), this problem occurs because the Visual C++ 2013 x64 C Runtime does not check whether the operating system supports AVX state saving before it tries to run AVX or FMA3 instructions, and Windows Vista does not support those instructions. The DLLs in the Pale Moon Program Files directory are out-of-date versions that are affected by this issue, hence the 64 bit version of the browser crashes on Windows Vista.
The article also includes links to download KB3179560, which will fix the problem on Windows Vista. After installing the update, I simply deleted the outdated DLLs msvcp120.dll & msvcr120.dll from the Pale Moon Program Files directory, rebooted the computer, and now Pale Moon 27.3.0 launches and works just fine in Windows Vista: http://prntscr.com/fo103s . Pale Moon now uses the DLLs installed by the update located in the System32 directory instead of the outdated DLLs that were in the Program Files directory.
In conclusion, for future Pale Moon updates, MSCR120.DLL & MSVCP120.dll (located in the Pale Moon directory) must be replaced with the updated versions in order to work properly on Vista. Will the next version of Pale Moon include the updated DLLs? Do you still want me to send the crash dump data, or will that no longer be necessary?

Also, for reference, here's the digital signatures for the DLLs compared (PM directory on left, system32 on right): http://prntscr.com/fo16fm

Thanks,
-2008WindowsVista

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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-06-25, 18:44

Crash dump data won't be necessary if you've already found the solution.
I'm surprised I've not been offered the runtime updates as part of my normal Windows updates for Visual Studio. I'll update manually, in that case.

Yeah this is odd and wrong. The runtime in MSVS2013's redist is old, despite my VS version being Update 5. I'll make sure to grab later versions for the next release and drop them in the redist folder for use.
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JustOff

Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by JustOff » 2017-06-25, 19:11

Moonchild wrote:Yeah this is odd and wrong. The runtime in MSVS2013's redist is old, despite my VS version being Update 5. I'll make sure to grab later versions for the next release and drop them in the redist folder for use.
AFAIU kb3174417 package installs this MSVS2013 update automatically, am I right?

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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-06-25, 19:28

JustOff wrote:AFAIU kb3174417 package installs this MSVS2013 update automatically, am I right?
Correct, which is a download center only update, and apparently not served as a normal update to VS2013 users. I've sent Microsoft a complaint about it, because things like this SHOULD be offered as regular updates to Visual Studio.
"Just because you are offended doesn't mean you are right." -- unknown
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

2008WindowsVista

Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by 2008WindowsVista » 2017-06-26, 00:27

I'm not sure if I should post a separate topic for this, but a member at MSFN pointed out another issue exclusive to the 64-bit version of Pale Moon on Windows Vista, which I'm also able to reproduce.

When trying to load any YouTube video, I always get "An error occurred. Please try again later", with a varying "Playback ID" string of characters: http://prntscr.com/fo4p49 . The 32-bit version of Pale Moon plays YouTube videos just fine. This issue is also exclusive to Windows Vista, as I'm able to play YouTube videos just fine with the 64-bit version of Pale Moon under my Windows 8 host.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
-2008WindowsVista

2008WindowsVista

Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by 2008WindowsVista » 2017-06-26, 03:57

2008WindowsVista wrote:I'm not sure if I should post a separate topic for this, but a member at MSFN pointed out another issue exclusive to the 64-bit version of Pale Moon on Windows Vista, which I'm also able to reproduce.

When trying to load any YouTube video, I always get "An error occurred. Please try again later", with a varying "Playback ID" string of characters: http://prntscr.com/fo4p49 . The 32-bit version of Pale Moon plays YouTube videos just fine. This issue is also exclusive to Windows Vista, as I'm able to play YouTube videos just fine with the 64-bit version of Pale Moon under my Windows 8 host.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
-2008WindowsVista
Nevermind that, all I had to do was go to go to Options -> Content -> Video, and check "Enable MSE for WebM video", and now everything works flawlessly: http://prntscr.com/fo65se

-2008WindowsVista

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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-06-26, 10:03

If H.264 doesn't work with our code, then that would be a limitation of the Windows Media Foundation on Vista which is used for H.264 playback. I would think however that this works, even in Vista. Did you disable the media foundation in preferences, by any chance?

Please do note that we're reworking our MSE code and MSE+WebM likely won't work out of the box in the next release since parts of it need to be re-implemented for the new code, which will take time. See Issue #1119.
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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by trava90 » 2017-06-26, 21:40

Do you have the "Platform Update Supplement for Windows Vista" installed? It provides the necessary H.264 decoders needed by our code for proper MP4 playback.

2008WindowsVista

Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by 2008WindowsVista » 2017-06-27, 01:44

Moonchild wrote:If H.264 doesn't work with our code, then that would be a limitation of the Windows Media Foundation on Vista which is used for H.264 playback. I would think however that this works, even in Vista. Did you disable the media foundation in preferences, by any chance?

Please do note that we're reworking our MSE code and MSE+WebM likely won't work out of the box in the next release since parts of it need to be re-implemented for the new code, which will take time. See Issue #1119.
trava90 wrote:Do you have the "Platform Update Supplement for Windows Vista" installed? It provides the necessary H.264 decoders needed by our code for proper MP4 playback.
I didn't disable WMF, unless it's disabled by default for some reason.
I must check "Enable MSE for WebM video" for YouTube to work on Pale Moon 64-bit, however with the 32 bit version of the browser, checking the option isn't necessary, and YouTube playback works as it should. This is also confirmed by another MSFN member using Vista 32 bit (fully updated) with Pale Moon 27.3.0 32 bit: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/175262- ... nt=1140945

Yes, I do have the Platform Update Supplement installed, so this seems to be another issue with PM x64 and Vista x64. As trava90 pointed out, Vista supports H.264 playback with the Platform Update supplement, so this isn't a limitation of Vista.
Here's a screenshot of Pale Moon 32-bit, playing YouTube just fine without MSE for WebM checked (and Windows Update showing the PFS installed): http://prntscr.com/foka03

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Re: Ongoing issue with Pale Moon 64-bit & Windows Vista/2008: MSVCR120.DLL APPCRASH

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-06-27, 08:31

Not sure then; it could be anything in that case since 64-bit applications (especially DX ones) were barely heard of in the Vista days.
If you need video and it doesn't work on the 64-bit version fr you, then you should probably stick to the 32-bit version of Pale Moon.
"Just because you are offended doesn't mean you are right." -- unknown
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

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