Common web domains not 'recognized' in Epyrus (I'm afraid to ask why?)

[Pallid Planetoid]

I tried Epyrus out a few years ago and got virtually no-where attempting to add email accounts.

Just yesterday I tried the most current Epyrus release and was able to add a number of accounts, thankfully.

But... when it got to the Hotmail.com, Outlook.com and Yahoo.com domains I am unable to get any to work with Epyrus.

Reading more in the forum - it appears MS account (i.e. Hotmail, Outlook, LIve etc) are not compatible with Epyrus (sadly) if I understand what I read correctly in the forum.

So then does this also include all Yahoo Service type domains that are not compatible with Epyrus (i.e. Yahoo.com, myyahoo.com, currently.com, rocketmail.com etc) as well? (I am unable to add any of these domains the same as the MS domains mentioned above).

If this is the work of the "big-boys" to cut-off less commonly used Email Clients like Epyrus - then this is flat out disgustingly horrendous behavior!!!

If all of these most commonly used domains are off-limits for Epyrus (as they appear to be...), then the email client has become quite limited to say the least (except for the less commonly used domains that for the most part have worked for the most part seamlessly, see below)....

Other than the above, thankfully I'm able to add less common-place domains with very little problem (a few needed to be added manually, however) such as; mailcan.com, vivaldi.net, clovermail.net, mail.com, juno .com, vfemail.net along with a few others (all of which, I've been able to add to Epyrus....).

... suffice to say - I was able to add a total 15 accounts fortunately (albeit, of the less commonly used domains) so that's not too bad in my case at least (gmail I don't use so don't care about, as far as common domains).

[Pallid Planetoid]

I should mention that Epyrus in some cases, might appear to not be recognizing an account (i.e. error adding account) - that can simply be due to a "time-out" error (hence will work at a later time when 'time-out' errors might at some point subside).

Apparently Epyrus does not trap a "time-out" as just that, "time-out" errors -- but instead displays a "time-out" error response no different than an "unrecognized" account when adding accounts to Epyrus.

I added several domains that all worked - and suddenly one persistently failed as "unrecognized" (when I knew the address and password were correct and Epryus had no problem with the domain itself. Looking into it further, I discovered "time-out" errors were occurring.... waiting a few minutes was all I needed to add the account at which time the time-out errors had subsided).

So I thought I'd just say for cases where adding accounts might appear to be failing (when they shouldn't be) it can be due to "time-out" errors that one would otherwise have no idea is the problem (since these type errors are lumped in with legitimately unrecognized accounts).

[Bilbo47]

Hotmail.com, Outlook.com, Yahoo.com

Such mail services generally do not have a simple one-to-one naming convention for their IMAP and SMTP mail servers. Mail clients automatically default to searching for like mail.yahoo.com, which Yahoo likely does not provide. Thus we have to search FAQs / forums and dig up the actual server names, then use them in EP's manual account setup.

This problem is most common with services that want to serve advertising on web pages that happen to show an email account. Such services cost far more in irritation than a paid email service costs in currency.

[Keith Moon]

Hotmail.com, Outlook.com, Yahoo.com

Such mail services generally do not have a simple one-to-one naming convention for their IMAP and SMTP mail servers. Mail clients automatically default to searching for like mail.yahoo.com, which Yahoo likely does not provide. Thus we have to search FAQs / forums and dig up the actual server names, then use them in EP's manual account setup.

This problem is most common with services that want to serve advertising on web pages that happen to show an email account. Such services cost far more in irritation than a paid email service costs in currency.

Plus, they use OAuth2 as an authentication method, so I had to bail on Epyrus, sadly. Outlook.com domains will not work at present. I wish I didn't have Outlook.com email, but alas ...

[Bilbo47]

FAQs / forums and dig up the actual server names, then use them in EP's manual account setup.

Yahoo info
Hotmail info, probably outdated
Outlook info Fail - this stopped working for me last year.

[geraldh]

I've been using Yahoo mail and GMX mail with Epyrus for some time without issues.

You probably need an app password for Yahoo https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN15241.html?guccounter=1

[Veit Kannegieser]

Not being an expert with outlook/o356, i use DavMail at work, with a fetchmail chain and post processing.
Works nice except security features corrupt OpenPGP signatures, and URLs get mangled, but this is likely a corporate setting.
Effort once to set up and maintain, but is worth for daily usability.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Hotmail.com, Outlook.com, Yahoo.com

Such mail services generally do not have a simple one-to-one naming convention for their IMAP and SMTP mail servers. Mail clients automatically default to searching for like mail.yahoo.com, which Yahoo likely does not provide. Thus we have to search FAQs / forums and dig up the actual server names, then use them in EP's manual account setup....

Wait, it's not as if the correct settings are not available (i.e cannot be found) - fact is anyone can easily look up the IMAP settings for any Email Service by just looking it up on the web.

Yes, in many cases the setup for servers to function for IMAP have to be determined by looking the setup values up on the net and entering the values manually in Epyrus - but this is not the problem. The problem is the known correct settings as determined by looking them up still fail work in Epyrus....

That is to say, upon getting the correct IMAP settings (that we know are valid and do work) - still do not work in Epyrus when manually entered as contrasted to the fact using these same settings that fail to work in Epyrus do actually work successfully in other Eclients such as Thunderbird Claws Mail, Microsoft Mail.

And, beyond this - other Email Services do first of all successfully get the right settings "automatically" in Epyrus and most importantly do work in Epurus that are not made up of the likes of the Outlook.com, Yahoo and Gmail group of Email Services.

I don't mind needing "manually" setup email accounts via looking up what the valid IMAP settings are for each of the Email Services that don't work using the "Automated" settings Epyrus uses - what is confusing to me is why don't the commonly used email services (i.e. Outlook.com, Yahoo, Gmail etc) work in Epyrus when entered manually with the correct settings that are confirmed to work in any other Eclient one might use (other than Epyrus)?

One would expect the same account settings parameters that do generally work in most if not all Eclients (regardless if it is entered manually or automatically) to work in the Epyrus Eclient.

So the question remains, why do these same commonly used Email Services work in other Eclients (i.e. Outlook.com, Yahoo and Gmail as examples) yet the do not work in Epyrus using the same IMAP settings in both cases?

So far no one has addressed why the IMAP settings that are confirmed to work (i.e. do in other Eclients) do not work in the Epyrus Eclient....

Is it just that simple that these commonly used Email Service Providers are conspiring to limit the competition from the lesser used Eclients in order to sustain the dominance of the larger more used Eclients? And if so, how are they able to do this? (I don't see how this is possible in as much as it doesn't makes sense that this should be allowed, assuming it is even possible to do at all).

[Pallid Planetoid]

I've been using Yahoo mail and GMX mail with Epyrus for some time without issues.

You probably need an app password for Yahoo https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN15241.html?guccounter=1

While I have not needed to use an app-password for other Eclients (i.e. Thunderbird, Claws, Microsoft Mail etc) - I was able to successfully add a Yahoo account by generating an app-password for Epyrus.

Thanks for the suggestion!!

Btw, did you have to use an app-passord for your Yahoo mail?

I would add, if this is the "convention" when using Epyrus (for some Email Services) - then Epyrus should provide this info (via a dialog of some kind to inform users when Epyus is otherwise unsuccessful adding an account in the manner that other Email Services can be added w/out the need of using an app-password).

[Pallid Planetoid]

^ Follow-up:

What's interesting is that "Normal Password" option in Epyrus has to be what is used to enter the app-password successfully in Epyrus (as opposed to using the Oauth2 option)....

Also, I was pleased to see that the (now unavailable) "Rocketmail" Yahoo domain worked as well using an app-password (I had assumed Epyrus was having issues with a Yahoo domain that is not conventional).

Kind of a hassle to have to generate app-passwords for Yahoo accounts (and presumably Outlook.com and other more commonly used Email Service providers) - but it's nice to know this works (to get the Email Service Providers to work that would otherwise not work in Epyrus).

Good stuff to know - thanks again geraldh for the tip! ( you're post is very helpful and greatly appreciated ... and will provide help for others with the same issues )

[Bilbo47]

why the IMAP settings that ... work in other Eclients do not work in Epyrus

To the extent that "app passwords" and OAuth are not part of the IMAP+SMTP specs, we would not expect any IMAP-only client to use non-IMAP protocols. Yes, EP does use OAuth and app passwords. But even those now-common approaches are thwarted by extra barriers raised on the server side. Some clients have paid teams to chase the latest chaos imposed on the web. EP is a best-effort work, done by us the community. Of course the newest edge cases will not be covered soon.

Is it just that Email Service Providers are conspiring to limit competition?

Again, web- or browser-based zero-priced mail services want to not-support any traditional clients at all; instead they want all email to be presented alongside their advertisements. Thus such services are neither free nor zero-cost.