Epyrus website is up.

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athenian200
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Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-11-04, 02:51

http://www.epyrus.org/

I waited to put this up because some of the content I had planned spoiled the final design I wanted for Epyrus, and the theme wasn't finished yet. What do you think? I know my design skills very strongly reflect the mentality of someone who learned HTML4 and CSS a long time ago, and never really picked up JavaScript. But the good thing is, it's such a simple website that it looks okay in pretty much any browser, even something like Lynx can do a reasonable job rendering the site.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by ron_1 » 2022-11-04, 03:52

athenian200 wrote:
2022-11-04, 02:51
I know my design skills very strongly reflect the mentality of someone who learned HTML4 and CSS a long time ago, and never really picked up JavaScript. But the good thing is, it's such a simple website that it looks okay in pretty much any browser, even something like Lynx can do a reasonable job rendering the site.
IMHO this is exactly the way a website should look.

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-11-04, 08:49

To be honest it hurts my eyes a bit and it's hard to read because of that.
Try changing your <div class="main"> to this and see if you like it:

Code: Select all

<div class="main">
<h2 align="center">Background of Epyrus</h2>
<p>Epyrus was first conceived of sometime around March or April of 2022, after I started to feel another UXP-based e-mail client was needed, but found that there were complications that would prevent the revival of Fossamail. The original codename was actually Mercurius Civicus very briefly, before I came up with the codename Hermopolis and finally settled on Epyrus as the browser's final name.</p>
<p>IceDove-UXP was out there and seemingly had good bones, but too much that I found useful had been stripped out due to FOSS principles, it was really only maintained for a specific Linux distro, it had a different setup than what I was used to working on Pale Moon, and wasn't really tested on other platforms at all.</p>
<hr>
<h2 align="center">Look and Feel of Epyrus</h2>
<p>Most other UXP-based e-mail clients are loosely based on some kind of historical precedent. Mine is intended to be based on an alternate history that isn't too hard to imagine. Imagine that instead of Thunderbird being spun off and dealt with by the SeaMonkey team and the people who develop the suite, it had been developed as a first-class application alongside pre-Australis Firefox and given a similar "Phoenix" treatement. Also, imagine that the AppMenu had been implemented as planned in Thunderbird at one point, rather than being skipped in favor of the hamburger menu.</p>
<p>The AppMenu in Thunderbird was meant to be blue originally, much like Pale Moon's AppMenu. So in this parallel reality, Thunderbird would be an application with a blue AppMenu, and Firefox would be an application with an orange AppMenu. And with Epyrus and Pale Moon, which forked from them... this would be swapped around, with Pale Moon having blue and Epyrus having orange.</p>
<hr>
<h2 align="center">Development Philosophy of Epyrus</h2>
<p>Epyrus development is intended to be similar to Pale Moon development in a very broad sense so that it's fairly easy for people who are used to working on Pale Moon to start working on this application, and most of the same rules and procedures carry over.</p>
<p>The idea is that it will be a slightly "sloppier" way of development than the way I've been trained in and grown accustomed to working on MCP projects over the years, but still overall done in a similar way. For instance, with Epyrus... while creating the issue first is still preferred, I won't consider it a big problem if I see a development branch where someone has fixed something and they have a placeholder for an issue number (something like Issue #TBA or Issue #XXX). I would probably just create an issue, cite the commit and the fact that I've created an issue to track the problem they attempted to fix, and go along with it. If I see something mostly complete on someone else's branch that's been sitting there for a while in that state, I may expedite the process, pick up where they left off, and do part of the work myself if I think I understand what is needed, or think that it's complete enough to be worth risking. If something is merely untested, I may just try to test it myself rather than wait on someone to test their own PR if that is what is holding things up.</p>
<p>If there were more contributors competing for attention or offering to deal with the same issue, the process would theoretically become more like the standard MCP process and scale up naturally, but as long as there are less than a handful of contributors and I can personally watch everything they are doing with their forks, this works fine.
</p>
</div>

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athenian200
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-11-04, 09:36

vannilla wrote:
2022-11-04, 08:49
To be honest it hurts my eyes a bit and it's hard to read because of that.
I don't know why I didn't use more paragraph breaks in there. I think I just forgot I could do that for some reason. I agree, it looks much nicer this way. Thanks for the help. :)
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2022-11-04, 17:15

I think you should get rid of the min-width in your main div, so it works on phones.

Although you could make the entire site a little, simpler.

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Tomaso » 2022-11-04, 19:24

leothetechguy wrote:
2022-11-04, 17:15
simpler.
* Shit's lightweight and loads fast
* Fits on all your shitty screens
* Looks the same in all your shitty browsers
* The motherfucker's accessible to every asshole that visits your site
* Shit's legible and gets your fucking point across (if you had one instead of just 5mb pics of hipsters drinking coffee)
..but they still managed to have it poisoned with Google Analytics!

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2022-11-04, 19:56

Code: Select all

<!-- yes, I know...wanna fight about it? -->
    <script>
      (function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){i['GoogleAnalyticsObject']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){
      (i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),
      m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)
      })(window,document,'script','//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js','ga');
    
      ga('create', 'UA-45956659-1', 'motherfuckingwebsite.com');
      ga('send', 'pageview');
    </script>

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2022-11-04, 22:00

leothetechguy wrote:
2022-11-04, 17:15
Although you could make the entire site a little, simpler.
http://txti.es/ seems similar to https://bearblog.dev/, except for the obvious difference..
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-05, 03:31

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with trying to have some 𝓮𝓵𝓮𝓰𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓮 (for lack of a better word) in websites. That is definitely achievable in a cross-device, cross-browser and cross-platform way. extreme minimalism (bleepingwebsite) is just a total waste of resources (paradoxical as that sounds) and potential.
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-11-05, 04:12

The new website looks awesome in a terminal web browser, might be the best looking terminal web page ever in fact.
2022-11-04_23-01.png

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-11-05, 10:09

athenian200 wrote:
2022-11-04, 02:51
I know my design skills very strongly reflect the mentality of someone who learned HTML4 and CSS a long time ago, and never really picked up JavaScript.
Although not (yet?) an Epyrus user, I also think "this is exactly the way a website should look". I came from a story similar to yours, hand-written HTML (no CMS) with some CSS. Also some JavaScript but only when needed for "special" purposes.
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Old_Radio » 2022-11-05, 17:02

Since you asked....

1) Text too small. 2) Text stretched out across screen too far. 3) Need more white space.

Our filaments (in the tubes!) are not as bright as they used to be, so we need all the help we can get.

That referenced 'https://bearblog.dev/' would be a good place to start.
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-11-05, 20:50

Old_Radio wrote:
2022-11-05, 17:02
1) Text too small.
Okay, I took care of that.
2) Text stretched out across screen too far.
I don't like the idea of all the text being centered in a narrow column that takes up only about 1/3rd of the screen on a widescreen display, though. It should resize somewhat if you view it in a smaller browser window, though.
3) Need more white space.
Well, having a bigger font size should also result in more white space naturally. Hopefully that helps enough that you can read it more easily. :)
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-11-05, 21:55

Sorry athenian200, I think you originally did the perfect thing ... in the Berners-Lee spirit of original HTML. I.e. you (as I do in my web page) correctly concentrated on the right thing, the content and not the look, the logical organization and not the look. I personally hate the sites who try to impose a layout on the reader. Apart from the organization in paragraphs, and emphasizing with bold or italic or underscore, the rest of the effort should be on the reader to get the page as he can see it best: if it is too wide or too narrow, the reader shall enlarge or narrow the browser screen (one is not obliged to run it full screen width! I never do); if one wants a larger font one cam zoom the browser (native Pale Moon zoom, or Nosquint ... I even use Nosquint to force the colour of visited and unvisited links for some sites, when the author forced some colour combination I cannot see well)
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-11-05, 22:06

Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
2022-11-05, 21:55
if one wants a larger font one cam zoom the browser
Yeah, I didn't think of zooming feature for some reason... I forgot people could do that. I basically just did the CSS equivalent of increasing the font size the same way I used to do when my English teacher complained at me to make an essay 14pt instead of 12pt because of his eyesight.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Basilisk-Dev » 2022-11-06, 02:22

I think it looks great. Good job!
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2022-11-06, 02:36

I think the website looks nicer at 67% zoom. The background is mostly hidden at the default zoom, while my zoom not only shows the background but also puts the content in the center nicely for screens larger than a phone (like my laptop).
Screenshot_2022-11-06_10-36-37.png
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-06, 12:04

I agree having a small left-right margin to the page, showing the background, is nicer.
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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by BenFenner » 2022-11-06, 12:45

These are my immediate impressions for improvements:
"Home" navigation link should be the left-most link (first in left-to-right languages).
"Download" should be the second navigation link, as it may be the most important for casual visitors.
"Repository" should be next, as it follows naturally from "Download" since it is a window into the download.
"Forum" should be last (right-most) since it is a secondary help/interaction link not as germane as the others.

The two main navigation links that take the user off-site are "Repository" and "Forum". Main navigation links should not take the user off-site, especially since you have other man nav links that don't. It renders the navigation useless. Once I click "Repository" I can no longer go "Home".
The main nav links should take the user to a landing page on your site that then describes the content a little bit, and provides the off-site link. This also makes bookmarking cleaner, and updates to your site in the future won't be missed by bookmarking users. (This way someone can bookmark your "Forum" landing page and always have the right place even if you change forum URLs.)

Other notes I might have get into the weeds, but those above seemed the most actionable to me.

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Re: Epyrus website is up.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-11-06, 15:34

jobbautista9 wrote:
2022-11-06, 02:36
While my zoom not only shows the background but also puts the content in the center nicely for screens larger than a phone (like my laptop).
Hmm. I guess I am willing to reduce the max-width a little so the background is more visible, since I definitely see that point, but I still in general do not agree that having the text spread out over a wider space is a bad thing in and of itself. I looked at Old_Radio's bear blog link, and I didn't care for the way all the text was squished into a narrow column leaving nothing but huge gaps of empty space on the sides. Though I do want the background to be more visible for sure.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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