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Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 19:20
by noobsoftware
Is it possible for someone to create a small template repo with the utmost basics needed for an UXP application? This would be really helpful as a starting point, I am currently looking into creating an UXP application and i find it a bit overwhelming to emulate the structure of other UXP applications.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 21:32
by New Tobin Paradigm
What do you want to do?

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 22:07
by vannilla
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-06-20, 21:32
What do you want to do?
To be fair, I think it's not unreasonable to set up something regardless of someone's intentions.
Even I tried to make something without any goal, just for the sake of understanding how it works.
So that question is a bit pointless, in my opinion. :angel:

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 22:45
by noobsoftware
I want to make a Jukebox/music player similar to the old iTunes, I've found Nightingale which i intend to use mostly for reference for things like actually playing media and such (which I'm currently not sure how is implemented). But i want to implement the application from scratch to have it well organized and clean. The ambassador source code seems the most simple to understand but yet it would be helpful to have something like a hello world app template (something like you would get in Visual Studio when starting a project) for developers trying to start using UXP.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 23:48
by New Tobin Paradigm
I'll think about it and let you know in a few days. Fair?

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-20, 23:53
by noobsoftware
That's definitely fair.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 00:10
by New Tobin Paradigm
I've done a little refresher research to confirm meat-stored data. This shouldn't be too much of a problem. The question is how detailed of an example should it be.. As in should it include a glue stub, branding setup, shellservice, windows installer, other bits or should it simply be compile, xul window, strip, and package.

The latter could be done in virtually no time but including the former would be more of a commitment of time and resources. More than I might be willing to do this week.

I am about 85% sure I am gonna do this for you and everyone but I am not sure exactly the size of the can of worms it may open.

Let me know what exactly you want me to do and that will make my decision.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 00:25
by noobsoftware
I have yet to do my first build for windows, so I am not sure, is a windows installer required for it to run on Windows? Anyways that's probably not necessary to start with i can use a UNIX environment, the branding i can probably mimic from other projects. I must admit ignorance on shellservice, I am not sure about that, what it is exactly. A XUL window the i can compile and run, and another thing i have to ask is: can html be used in all UXP based apps (mixed in with XUL) or does that require a browser-backend? Since i seem to need HTML to do some things with my interface (i think).

From what I'm reading shellservice would be nice to have.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 00:46
by Kathuluforz
Went searching web about UXP just out of curiosity, and have not found much on the subject except this: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.1201/b19182/complete-guide-portals-user-experience-platforms-shailesh-kumar-shivakumar?refId=6b4b6c3e-c931-4d7b-bd30-ff8a82405b15
Might be worth investigating further for those that want, looks like need to sign up to see details.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 01:37
by micwoj92
I don't think that "user experience platforms" are the same UXP as Unified XUL Platform.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 02:23
by Kathuluforz

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 03:41
by New Tobin Paradigm
The name Unified XUL Platform was one we came up with in order to force perception back in line with the reality Mozilla had tried to obfuscate for the past decade that the codebase is not and never was "The Firefox codebase/platform".

While in the begining it was the Mozilla Suite/Netscape Communicator codebase, the moment things like Phoenix and Minotaur (Firefox and Thunderbird respectively) and later SeaMonkey 2.0, Camino, and dozens more happened the Mozilla codebase went through a transition to become a multi-project multi-application platform codebase. Even though in 2009 Mozilla kicked every one out of mozilla-central.. even to this day, albeit in progressively and severely diminished capacity, this is STILL the case.

The "Firefox Platform Codebase" == mozilla-central is one of the biggest and most pervasive lies ever perpetrated against any surrounding community, developer, or user of this technology.

With UXP and the very name of it we had hoped to restore that fact of reality to the forefront of our continued and expanded efforts. Obviously we have achieved a messure of success since the recent posts in this thread exist.

Since we are generally considered scum of the earth for what we have done and what we believe and for merely existing you are lucky to find any reference to it outside our sphere let alone an accurate one.

As an aside, "XUL" is still technically a trademark owned by Verizon and licensed to Mozilla and if they ever challenge our use of it in the "Unified XUL Platform" our fallback is it would become the "Unified XUI Platform" as XUI was XUL's original working name during the very early planning stages.

I question their ability to defend it given past efforts to defend file extensions and specifications as trademarks by others and given the diminished corperate marketability intrest in the technology but we will deal with that if it ever comes up. But you might have noticed our reduced usage of the fully typed out name since it was first coined. This is not solely for ease of typing. ;)

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 04:19
by New Tobin Paradigm
As far as a sample application: I will do what is required to build, package (as zip and tarball), and display a Hello world XUL main window. You guys can do the rest as required from there by example from elsewhere or your own ingenious accomplishments. Okay?

I may help out with suggestions and tips as you progress from then on though.

As per the question about html in xul.. Technically yes by specifing the namespace for html tag in the XUL document but this is very bad form except in very specific instances and should be avoided if at all possible.

http://xref.palemoon.org/moonchild-central/search?string=html%3A&find=%5C.xul&findi=%5C.xul%24

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 07:27
by micwoj92
I don't know why would you still post that link to PDF of this book. You have only looked at the title of it and assumed: "Everything with UXP means one Unified XUL Platform and there is one UXP only".

Here, the same page that you have been using https://www.acronymfinder.com/UXP.html
Where you can see that there is User eXPerience(capitalized letters so maybe you will see), which is (at least for me) above the definition "Unified XUL Platform.
Now, instead of making yourself look like an idiot, please admit that you are wrong and that the book you posted has nothing to do with Unified XUL Platform.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 11:51
by noobsoftware
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-06-21, 04:19
As far as a sample application: I will do what is required to build, package (as zip and tarball), and display a Hello world XUL main window. You guys can do the rest as required from there by example from elsewhere or your own ingenious accomplishments. Okay?
Cool, thank you very much.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 12:15
by New Tobin Paradigm
I'll keep you updated.
vannilla wrote:
2021-06-20, 22:07
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-06-20, 21:32
What do you want to do?
To be fair, I think it's not unreasonable to set up something regardless of someone's intentions.
Even I tried to make something without any goal, just for the sake of understanding how it works.
So that question is a bit pointless, in my opinion. :angel:
You aren't wrong perse and obviously I am gonna do the most basic of examples (which might be added to as time goes on) but you have to consider that if I, personally, am gonna spend time doing it.. I kinda need a reason to commit those resources.

Doesn't have to be an all enthralling reason just something I might agree with or one that shows initiative enough to assure and justify my special effort towards it. To override the whole not-doing-it. You know?

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 19:20
by New Tobin Paradigm
Okay, I have added a repository at https://repo.palemoon.org/binaryoutcast/uxp-app-example but thus far it is just a re-purposed repo that was formally known as "comm-buildbase". I am in the process of updating the build system right now and then will work on the example application.

You can either watch the repository as it progresses or stick around here for when it is ready. ALSO yes.. I am doing this on my birthday of all days.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 22:17
by noobsoftware
Will do, thanks again, and happy birthday!

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-21, 23:02
by New Tobin Paradigm
I am doing my first test build.

Re: Starting a new app with UXP

Posted: 2021-06-22, 01:20
by New Tobin Paradigm
Well after working all afternoon I have gotten it to this point:
403cc445-53a7-415c-98a0-d4f3714cb73d.jpg
But it isn't ready to be a true example application yet. I want to add some basic xul application bits and bobs for basic reference so give it a day or two more. Though you can check out the tree now. I am also gonna want to write some basic documentation like a .mozconfig to use.