I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Board for discussions around the Epyrus mail and news client.

Moderator: athenian200

What should the E-mail client be named?

Poll ended at 2022-05-22, 09:55

Epyrus
26
62%
Centrapost
4
10%
Hermopolis Mail
11
26%
Raphemail
0
No votes
Hermopost
1
2%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-17, 16:55

I think I might have enough there to be able to figure out how to enable some kind of dark theme. :) I appreciate the info.

Anyway, I do have something to report regarding langpacks. I figured out how to make one finally. It involves using --enable-ui-locale and setting up an i10n directory, but does require some stuff from the corresponding Pale Moon langpacks from each language to work due to toolkit/platform string changes on our side. Using this, I was finally able to generate an Italian langpack.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsscXELhr-eyh70w9io ... A?e=kOoKrY

I'm not sure if it's perfect, but it seems to work on the surface anyway. I still need to streamline the process so that I can create multiple langpacks at once, but I do have it working regardless. There is a good chance that the first languages I attempt to add langpacks for will be the Romance languages... that is, Spanish, French, Italian, etc. The reason is because I've already studied Latin and I'm finding that I have at least a vague idea of what is going on with all those languages, which means I'm not relying quite as blindly on a machine translation to see if the phrase makes any sense in context, despite not actually knowing those languages.

It was interesting looking through the interface in Italian. I've never actually studied it at all, but I felt like I understood quite a bit of what I was looking at. It seemed like compared with Spanish, I saw a few more words I recognized from Latin class, plus more liberal use of English loanwords related to computers. It's weird to think a language I've never opened a single textbook to learn about is already kind of understandable. Somehow between my high school Latin classes, bits and pieces of Spanish I've picked up over the years, and the pieces of French that are scattered throughout English as stock phrases, I can already guess what some Italian phrases mean without having actually studied it. Which is a really weird experience, usually learning languages takes a lot of time and is really difficult.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by back2themoon » 2022-06-17, 18:55

It'd be great if you could pull off an automatic switch of light/dark themes (i.e. based on system/OS theme as found in current TB), but I guess this might be tougher since it probably classifies as a new feature.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by mintoyatsu » 2022-06-18, 00:38

back2themoon wrote:
2022-06-17, 18:55
It'd be great if you could pull off an automatic switch of light/dark themes (i.e. based on system/OS theme as found in current TB), but I guess this might be tougher since it probably classifies as a new feature.
If I recall, the Photonic theme supports mail clients and has light/dark icons. It definitely works if you use a dark uxtheme (or dark linux theme?), but I don't know about the dark mode setting in Windows.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by olafmi » 2022-06-21, 12:32

Moderator note: please don't willy-nilly upload add-on xpis, especially if they are available elsewhere.
Off-topic:
There was a good mail program as an addon for Firefox: Simple mail. Unfortunately, the final development was discontinued. But I uploaded the Adoon here.

Attention use of the addon at your own risk!

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-06-21, 13:16

Back on the topic of the actual Epyrus testing version in front of us, I haven't personally seen any errors or failures, and I don't see many complaints reported here. Seems pretty solid.

@athenian200 - how is the testing going from your perspective? Any thoughts on next steps?
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-21, 14:57

andyprough wrote:
2022-06-21, 13:16
Back on the topic of the actual Epyrus testing version in front of us, I haven't personally seen any errors or failures, and I don't see many complaints reported here. Seems pretty solid.

@athenian200 - how is the testing going from your perspective? Any thoughts on next steps?
The truth is, I'm kind of stalled because basically everything else I need to do is outside of my capabilities as a programmer. The only thing left I was able to do was figure out langpack generation and I did that, creating an Italian langpack as proof of concept. I can't create a better theme for it like I want to, and I am waiting on someone else to make that, but that person is very busy unfortunately. I don't really want to create another release with Australis as the default theme, which is basically why you haven't seen a new release yet.

Basically, aside from creating a better default theme and (optionally) figuring out some kind of solution for services, there's nothing stopping this from moving forwards now.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-06-21, 15:09

athenian200 wrote:
2022-06-21, 14:57
The truth is, I'm kind of stalled because basically everything else I need to do is outside of my capabilities as a programmer. The only thing left I was able to do was figure out langpack generation and I did that, creating an Italian langpack as proof of concept. I can't create a better theme for it like I want to, and I am waiting on someone else to make that, but that person is very busy unfortunately. I don't really want to create another release with Australis as the default theme, which is basically why you haven't seen a new release yet.

Basically, aside from creating a better default theme and (optionally) figuring out some kind of solution for services, there's nothing stopping this from moving forwards now.
I think the theme is pleasant enough, and the community will jump in and start creating themes soon enough. If by "services" you mean the Gmail oauth thing, people should be using 2FA regardless, in which case they can just get their one-time passwords.

Anyway, great work all around, so glad you have provided what we have so far.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-21, 15:34

andyprough wrote:
2022-06-21, 15:09
If by "services" you mean the Gmail oauth thing, people should be using 2FA regardless, in which case they can just get their one-time passwords.
No, no, we're past that, that's a solved problem. I'm talking about things like having a place to put things like themes and add-ons. I don't think we can use the Pale Moon's add-on site because of the way Phoebus is designed. I looked into the code, and it seems to be designed to work on a one-application-per-domain basis, which means I would have to buy a domain name and run my own server, and I don't feel very comfortable running services. Not so much for financial reasons, but for security reasons... I would not have a lot of time to get comfortable with server administration and best practices with regard to security, before my project's web presence got the wrong kind of attention. You know what I mean?

That makes me think providing services like automatic updates and having a "proper" place for people to download add-ons from might be too ambitious given the resources I have at hand. Though I will definitely setup some kind of basic file storage for Epyrus at some point, it's likely to be more like an FTP server or something simple where you just download updates and add-ons manually.

But really, once the theme is done, I'll be happy to move forward with another release. I'm not saying I am dead set against doing another one without it, but I just don't want people getting used to this theme too much or expecting that I will keep it and making a judgment based on that. A lot of people really hate Australis, and I don't like the other popular alternative because it's the same theme used by that other e-mail client.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Bilbo47 » 2022-07-18, 17:10

Have been A/B comparing Epyrus against the umm previous app, and this one is shaping up well. Still have to configure allll the accounts and calendars and add-ons, just to be sure that this one does not crash, while the other one does.

This version has a very valuable feature that the other one did not, which applies when opening a draft-message having a valid from-field which is not defined: "A unique identity matching the From address was not found. The message will be sent using the current From field and settings from identity [Identity_Name] <Mailbox@Domain.TLD>" Image Where in the source tree can I look this up?

Also, where should I file an actual bug report about deleting contacts from address books? Thanks again for building it!

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-07-19, 01:35

Bilbo47 wrote:
2022-07-18, 17:10
Have been A/B comparing Epyrus against the umm previous app, and this one is shaping up well. Still have to configure allll the accounts and calendars and add-ons, just to be sure that this one does not crash, while the other one does.
I'm glad to hear that.
Where in the source tree can I look this up?
Honestly? No clue. That feature was built-in, and I just didn't remove it. I'll show you where the source tree for everything is, though...

UXP parts, mostly C or C++ code shared by all mail clients:

https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProd ... r/mailnews

https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProd ... aster/ldap

https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProd ... er/db/mork

Client side, specific to Epyrus:

https://repo.palemoon.org/athenian200/hermopolis
Also, where should I file an actual bug report about deleting contacts from address books? Thanks again for building it!
For now, it's probably best to submit any bug reports on my Client-side repo for Epyrus. I haven't renamed the repo from the codenmae because people have already cloned it, and that might disrupt workflows.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-07-19, 11:40

athenian200 wrote:
2022-07-19, 01:35
I haven't renamed the repo from the codenmae because people have already cloned it, and that might disrupt workflows.
It should be fine to do so as I'm pretty sure gitea forwards old names to new ones automatically unless you create a new repo with the old name.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-07-24, 06:36

So, I really didn't want to get into August without another release, which means the new theme is not done yet.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsscXELhr-eyh71MC47 ... A?e=Erlolj

I decided to call this one Epyrus 1.1.0. There have been a lot of platform improvements, and the Windows builds are now built with VS2022. So there's been enough done that I should really put something out.

As far as progress on the theme, here is where it is:

https://repo.palemoon.org/FranklinDM/he ... evelopment

It looks semi-complete, but it seems like progress stalled a week ago, and so I decided to wait until the theme is working properly to ship it with the client. I wasn't planning to do another release with Australis, but the end of the month was approaching rapidly, and I was kind of in this awkward place where the new theme is half-done and I don't really see much value in switching to an intermediate theme for the next couple of releases.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by puppyX » 2022-07-24, 17:40

I've downloaded Epyrus and unzipped & installed it but had a tough time. I didn't have correct zip file opener & for some reason it doesn't want to be in program files.
Does the location matter ? Interlink installed to program files. Easily un/installable.
Two Microsoft Visual C++ files had to be installed or updated so it would load. 32 & 64 bit files.

It opens and is ready for work. Before I link email accounts I'd like to know how it will receive updates, particularly security updates. Will there be a manual option with an update button ?

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-07-24, 18:07

puppyX wrote:
2022-07-24, 17:40
I've downloaded Epyrus and unzipped & installed it but had a tough time. I didn't have correct zip file opener & for some reason it doesn't want to be in program files.
Does the location matter ?
I can build it as an installer, but I'm wanting to make sure the installer does not sign itself with a Mozilla-licensed key that I don't have a license to use. Also, the program is technically still in beta. It's not really ready to be properly installed. Another big problem is that the self-extracting executables always get flagged as viruses by Windows Defender, and I would rather have the mild inconvenience of requiring manual extraction over people thinking it's a virus. Though I am actually now thinking maybe I'd rather have it just use .zip. I notice .7z files take forever to extract on older machines.
Two Microsoft Visual C++ files had to be installed or updated so it would load. 32 & 64 bit files.
That's because of it using a newer compiler, and that is the kind of issue I wouldn't encounter on my development system. The previous version likely didn't have this issue. I'm sure there are ways to solve the issue, I just haven't encountered it on my own systems so I haven't put a lot of thought into that aspect of things yet. Also, I'm having trouble reproducing the issue... I tried installing it on a random Windows 10 machine with no development tools installed and it worked out of the box. What version of Windows are you on? Curious if that would make a difference...
It opens and is ready for work. Before I link email accounts I'd like to know how it will receive updates, particularly security updates. Will there be a manual option with an update button ?
Well, that question actually suggests to me that Epyrus may not be suitable for your needs at this stage. It's still technically not even in beta. I'm nowhere near having the kind of infrastructure that can push out automatic updates or give you a button to download manual ones. I'm not comfortable with operating my own infrastructure exposed to the web (which is what would be required to make a feature like that work), and it may be a while before I find a solution I'm comfortable with on that front.

If you need a solid solution that does automatic updates today, Epyrus is not going to work for you. I don't have any kind of consistent release schedule, I don't have the infrastructure to push updates when they are ready, etc.
"There are two sentences inscribed upon the Ancient oracle... 'Know thyself' and 'Nothing too much'; and upon these all other precepts depend." -- Plutarch

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Baloo » 2022-07-25, 01:01

I am using Epyrus 1.1.0. Hadn't used prior versions. For some reason epyrus is crashing when it is attempting to sync all of my IMAP emails in Protonmail through Protonmail Bridge. Is there a way I can export a crash log and send to you athenian200?
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-07-25, 01:07

I believe I've solved the issue with the CRT not being distributed with the application. So, here's a quick redo of the Windows builds:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsscXELhr-eyh71QNDF ... g?e=y0auqx

I took the opportunity to make them .zip files. Yes, 7z compresses better, but unless you want to deal with the issues of including a self-extracting archive (and at that point you might as well have a full installer anyway), you're basically requiring every end user to install a third-party program that isn't very popular or well-known. I'm not sure where the idea that .7z is the "Windows equivalent" of .tar.xz comes from, though I have heard a lot of people go around saying that nowadays. It's basically just another high-compression format that's only supported by a handful of third-party applications, not that different from something like .zipx, .ace, or .rar files. Windows can only extract .zip files and .cab files out of the box, so anything else is going to be added pain on top of not having a full installation routine.

EDIT: Does the new build help at all? Also, I don't really know what you're talking about with a crash log... you can either open an issue on my Gitea repo or send me a PM on the forums, I guess. Whatever you can find to send to me, I'll look over it, but I don't know what "export a crash log" means. If there is a way to do that, I don't know what it is. I'm not any good at this end user/polish/service/support stuff. :(

I am not sure if this is ready for you to rely on as a stable application, I'm sorry. It sounds like you have a very particular setup and it's dependent on everything being a certain way that I don't know if I can guarantee will be that way here.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-07-25, 01:51

Baloo wrote:
2022-07-25, 01:01
I am using Epyrus 1.1.0. Hadn't used prior versions. For some reason epyrus is crashing when it is attempting to sync all of my IMAP emails in Protonmail through Protonmail Bridge. Is there a way I can export a crash log and send to you athenian200?
I am able to use Epyrus with Protonmail Bridge with the both this 1.1.0 version and the last Epyrus version without crashing. I am starting protonmail-bridge from the command line in its cli form:

Code: Select all

protonmail-bridge --cli
When I don't want to fill the terminal with bridge messages, I start it in noninteractive mode:

Code: Select all

protonmail-bridge --cli --noninteractive
Hope that helps. One thing I like about Epyrus is that it combines with the bridge to use basically zero cpu and a nice, low, consistent level of memory. I had to quit using Thunderbird because its memory use would get wildly out of control.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-07-25, 01:54

andyprough wrote:
2022-07-25, 01:51
I am able to use Epyrus with Protonmail Bridge with the both this 1.1.0 version and the last Epyrus version without crashing. I am starting protonmail-bridge from the command line in its cli form:

Code: Select all

protonmail-bridge --cli
When I don't want to fill the terminal with bridge messages, I start it in noninteractive mode:

Code: Select all

protonmail-bridge --cli --noninteractive
Hope that helps. One thing I like about Epyrus is that it combines with the bridge to use basically zero cpu and a nice, low, consistent level of memory. I had to quit using Thunderbird because its memory use would get wildly out of control.
I forget, is Baloo on Windows or Linux? I should have asked that... if he's on Linux too, then it is good to hear that the bridge is working for someone else.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-07-25, 01:58

athenian200 wrote:
2022-07-25, 01:54
I forget, is Baloo on Windows or Linux? I should have asked that... if he's on Linux too, then it is good to hear that the bridge is working for someone else.
Baloo writes about using Linux. Last time Baloo said which distro was in use, I believe it was PopOS.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by puppyX » 2022-07-25, 10:12

athenian200 wrote:
2022-07-24, 18:07
puppyX wrote:
2022-07-24, 17:40
I've downloaded Epyrus and unzipped & installed it but had a tough time. I didn't have correct zip file opener & for some reason it doesn't want to be in program files.
Does the location matter ?
I can build it as an installer, but I'm wanting to make sure the installer does not sign itself with a Mozilla-licensed key that I don't have a license to use. Also, the program is technically still in beta. It's not really ready to be properly installed. Another big problem is that the self-extracting executables always get flagged as viruses by Windows Defender, and I would rather have the mild inconvenience of requiring manual extraction over people thinking it's a virus. Though I am actually now thinking maybe I'd rather have it just use .zip. I notice .7z files take forever to extract on older machines.
Two Microsoft Visual C++ files had to be installed or updated so it would load. 32 & 64 bit files.
That's because of it using a newer compiler, and that is the kind of issue I wouldn't encounter on my development system. The previous version likely didn't have this issue. I'm sure there are ways to solve the issue, I just haven't encountered it on my own systems so I haven't put a lot of thought into that aspect of things yet. Also, I'm having trouble reproducing the issue... I tried installing it on a random Windows 10 machine with no development tools installed and it worked out of the box. What version of Windows are you on? Curious if that would make a difference...
It opens and is ready for work. Before I link email accounts I'd like to know how it will receive updates, particularly security updates. Will there be a manual option with an update button ?
Well, that question actually suggests to me that Epyrus may not be suitable for your needs at this stage. It's still technically not even in beta. I'm nowhere near having the kind of infrastructure that can push out automatic updates or give you a button to download manual ones. I'm not comfortable with operating my own infrastructure exposed to the web (which is what would be required to make a feature like that work), and it may be a while before I find a solution I'm comfortable with on that front.

If you need a solid solution that does automatic updates today, Epyrus is not going to work for you. I don't have any kind of consistent release schedule, I don't have the infrastructure to push updates when they are ready, etc.
I use Win 7 pro and only apply security updates so that's probably why it was asking to install updated Visual C++ files.
You're right - Epyrus is not the one for me, yet. I forgot it's still in the development stage !

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