I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Discussions about applications built on our platform code that do not have a dedicated board.

Moderators: trava90, athenian200

What should the E-mail client be named?

Poll ended at 2022-05-22, 09:55

Epyrus
26
62%
Centrapost
4
10%
Hermopolis Mail
11
26%
Raphemail
0
No votes
Hermopost
1
2%
 
Total votes: 42

Lucio Chiappetti
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-05-16, 20:45

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-16, 18:37
Well, I do know Latin, and I am a little bit familiar with Spanish, but as far as modern Italian, I haven't had much exposure to the language. I'd be willing to make sure any existing langpacks work as well as possible.
Personally I use only native English applications, so I'm not interested myself in using langpacks, but for some people like my friend localization would be a must (otherwise I'd convinced him to use Alpine :mrgreen: ). If you need assistance for langpacks, you could use the Crowdin interface used for Pale Moon ... Moonchild knows all about it. I participated to such activity (and my friend, despite not computer-savvy at all, uses Pale Moon :thumbup:).
Off-topic:
About the Renaissance relationships ... the architect Bramante (depicted as Euclid or Archimedes in the School of Athens) worked also in Milan. He built the dome of S.Maria delle Grazie (the dominican church whose refectory hosts Leonardo's Last Supper) and the trompe l'oeil apse of S.Maria presso S.Satiro ... you should first look at it from the back (https://goo.gl/maps/MzyTPazPcioWDhso7) and only then go inside (picture in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar ... San_Satiro).
If you happen to come in these surroundings I would be glad to show you around). By the way it is 250 m from Pinacoteca Ambrosiana, which in turn was built on the area of the Roman Forum ... did you kno that Mediolanum was capital of the Roman Empire between Diocletian and Theodosius ?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (G.B. Shaw)

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Snikkcir » 2022-05-17, 00:59

Just outta curiosity when would this email client be available..??
Also, would I be able to transfer my current profile to it...??
I'm still using Fossamail which has run flawlessly for a very long time now.
Thanks.
Last edited by Snikkcir on 2022-05-17, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Dupe, sorry.

Unread post by Snikkcir » 2022-05-17, 01:23

snip
Last edited by Snikkcir on 2022-05-17, 12:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-17, 01:51

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-12, 12:39
the source code is here if you want to build it yourself:

https://repo.palemoon.org/athenian200/hermopolis
Have you written any build instructions @athenian200? Or is it basically the same as building Pale Moon? Would there be any difference in the .mozconfig?
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andy80 » 2022-05-17, 02:18

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-16, 18:37
Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
2022-05-16, 17:03
if there is support for the Italian language).
Well, I do know Latin, and I am a little bit familiar with Spanish, but as far as modern Italian, I haven't had much exposure to the language. I'd be willing to make sure any existing langpacks work as well as possible, though. My lack of knowledge of modern Italian would likely only be an issue if a lot of new strings were needed due to major UI changes, and I don't expect that to come up very much. Might have to ask for a little help if new translations are needed though.
While, as Lucio, I use the English version of the programs, I can help in translating the interface to Italian.

About the name, I supported Centrapost, since it recalls "Central post (office)", and this makes the purpose of the tool rather clear. I also like the current proposals (Hermopolis mail and Epyrus), so I would have difficulties in casting my vote, if a new pool with these options would be proposed.


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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-17, 04:16

andyprough wrote:
2022-05-17, 01:51
Have you written any build instructions @athenian200? Or is it basically the same as building Pale Moon? Would there be any difference in the .mozconfig?
The build process is deliberately as similar to Pale Moon as possible, so that people who work on one application can easily shift gears and work on the other. Well, I have a .mozconfig I use, but I haven't published it anywhere yet. Here you are:

Code: Select all

# Set to 1 if you want a 64 bit build else leave as-is
_BUILD_64=1

# Standard build options for Hermopolis
ac_add_options --enable-application=mail
ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-O2 -GS-"
ac_add_options --enable-jemalloc
ac_add_options --enable-strip
ac_add_options --enable-calendar
ac_add_options --enable-security-sqlstore
ac_add_options --enable-devtools
ac_add_options --enable-av1
ac_add_options --disable-accessibility
ac_add_options --disable-gamepad
ac_add_options --disable-parental-controls
ac_add_options --disable-tests
ac_add_options --disable-debug
ac_add_options --disable-updater

# Processor architecture specific build options
if [ -n "$_BUILD_64" ]; then
  _BUILD_ARCH=x64
else
  _BUILD_ARCH=x86
fi

# Visual C++ redist files
WIN32_REDIST_DIR=$VCINSTALLDIR/redist/$_BUILD_ARCH/Microsoft.VC140.CRT
WIN_UCRT_REDIST_DIR="C:/Program Files (x86)/Windows Kits/10/Redist/10.0.19041.0/ucrt/DLLs/$_BUILD_ARCH"
What you'll notice is that there is no official branding yet, the application is "mail," and there's --enable-calendar and --enable-security-sqlstore as options. Really the main obstacle to release is selecting the final name, along with the debranding/rebranding process and making sure it doesn't use any kind of Mozilla infrastructure. In a functional sense it is already an E-mail client that builds against UXP. Oh, and I don't know if you still need to disable MAPI headers on Windows if you don't have them installed now that Outlook Express import code is gone. I still have them but they are nearly impossible to find nowadays.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-17, 12:33

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-17, 04:16
andyprough wrote:
2022-05-17, 01:51
Have you written any build instructions @athenian200? Or is it basically the same as building Pale Moon? Would there be any difference in the .mozconfig?
The build process is deliberately as similar to Pale Moon as possible, so that people who work on one application can easily shift gears and work on the other. Well, I have a .mozconfig I use, but I haven't published it anywhere yet. Here you are:

Code: Select all

# Set to 1 if you want a 64 bit build else leave as-is
_BUILD_64=1

# Standard build options for Hermopolis
ac_add_options --enable-application=mail
ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-O2 -GS-"
ac_add_options --enable-jemalloc
ac_add_options --enable-strip
ac_add_options --enable-calendar
ac_add_options --enable-security-sqlstore
ac_add_options --enable-devtools
ac_add_options --enable-av1
ac_add_options --disable-accessibility
ac_add_options --disable-gamepad
ac_add_options --disable-parental-controls
ac_add_options --disable-tests
ac_add_options --disable-debug
ac_add_options --disable-updater

# Processor architecture specific build options
if [ -n "$_BUILD_64" ]; then
  _BUILD_ARCH=x64
else
  _BUILD_ARCH=x86
fi

# Visual C++ redist files
WIN32_REDIST_DIR=$VCINSTALLDIR/redist/$_BUILD_ARCH/Microsoft.VC140.CRT
WIN_UCRT_REDIST_DIR="C:/Program Files (x86)/Windows Kits/10/Redist/10.0.19041.0/ucrt/DLLs/$_BUILD_ARCH"
What you'll notice is that there is no official branding yet, the application is "mail," and there's --enable-calendar and --enable-security-sqlstore as options. Really the main obstacle to release is selecting the final name, along with the debranding/rebranding process and making sure it doesn't use any kind of Mozilla infrastructure. In a functional sense it is already an E-mail client that builds against UXP. Oh, and I don't know if you still need to disable MAPI headers on Windows if you don't have them installed now that Outlook Express import code is gone. I still have them but they are nearly impossible to find nowadays.
Nice! It threw up an error initially on Void Linux:

Code: Select all

configure: error: These compiler flags for C are invalid: -O2 -GS-
but is building with "ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-O2".

From what I'm reading, the GS compiler flag is not available in GCC. Removing reference to the GS compiler flag seems to be working. Any thoughts on if it can be safely built this way? I'm reading that GS is an important security option when building on Windows, and that "GS-" would mean to build it without the flag. Do you know if GCC builds with a similar buffer protection by default, and if it would need to be specifically enabled/disabled? Sorry for all the questions - you can tell I'm an absolute amateur at this.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-17, 12:56

andyprough wrote:
2022-05-17, 12:33
From what I'm reading, the GS compiler flag is not available in GCC. Removing reference to the GS compiler flag seems to be working. Any thoughts on if it can be safely built this way? I'm reading that GS is an important security option when building on Windows, and that "GS-" would mean to build it without the flag. Do you know if GCC builds with a similar buffer protection by default, and if it would need to be specifically enabled/disabled? Sorry for all the questions - you can tell I'm an absolute amateur at this.
Oh! I'm so sorry. I just assumed you were building on Windows for some reason. When people don't specify an OS, my brain defaults to Windows. Those were Windows build instructions... this would be for Linux:

Code: Select all

# Clear this if not a 64bit build
_BUILD_64=1

# Set GTK Version to 2 or 3
_GTK_VERSION=2

# Standard build options for Hermopolis
ac_add_options --enable-application=mail
ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-O2 -w"
ac_add_options --enable-default-toolkit=cairo-gtk$_GTK_VERSION
ac_add_options --enable-jemalloc
ac_add_options --enable-strip
ac_add_options --enable-devtools
ac_add_options --enable-calendar
ac_add_options --enable-security-sqlstore
ac_add_options --enable-av1
ac_add_options --disable-gamepad
ac_add_options --disable-tests
ac_add_options --disable-debug
ac_add_options --disable-necko-wifi
ac_add_options --disable-updater
ac_add_options --with-pthreads

# Processor architecture specific build options
if [ -n "$_BUILD_64" ]; then
  ac_add_options --x-libraries=/usr/lib64
else
  ac_add_options --x-libraries=/usr/lib
fi

export MOZ_PKG_SPECIAL=gtk$_GTK_VERSION
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-17, 13:06

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-17, 12:56
Oh! I'm so sorry. I just assumed you were building on Windows for some reason. When people don't specify an OS, my brain defaults to Windows. Those were Windows build instructions... this would be for Linux:
Oh, good point, I really didn't read through that .mozconfig, I should have noticed that the lack of GTK and the addition of the Visual C++ material probably won't work. It's still building, but I'll stop it now and do it with the Linux options - thanks!!
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-17, 14:12

I apologize to everyone who already voted, because this may feel like I'm pulling the rug out from under you... but I decided not to let the original poll run for the entire week and just start the final poll now. The main reason is that there are twice as many votes for "Other" as there are for the strongest polling option (21 vs. 10), the other options all have 2 votes or fewer, and on top of all that, not all those "Other" votes wanted the same option. I don't see much point in waiting a week to start the runoff.

I'm going to start the poll over including Epyrus and Hermopolis Mail, along with Centrapost and a couple of new ideas I had based on feedback. Hermopost kind of merges what people liked about Centrapost (the strong association with mail/postal service) with the symbolism of the original name that they also favored, and Raphemail is a similar refinement of Raphael.
"There are two sentences inscribed upon the Ancient oracle... 'Know thyself' and 'Nothing too much'; and upon these all other precepts depend." -- Plutarch

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Potkeny » 2022-05-17, 14:48

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-17, 14:12
I'm going to start the poll over including Epyrus and Hermopolis Mail, along with Centrapost and a couple of new ideas I had based on feedback. Hermopost kind of merges what people liked about Centrapost (the strong association with mail/postal service) with the symbolism of the original name that they also favored, and Raphemail is a similar refinement of Raphael.
epyrus.com exists, not sure if it's a problem, with the copyright-text on bottom saying 2010, but it is somewhat IT related. (It's a shame, I really like how it sounds.)

Raphemail I fear will be a victim of typo (missing the 'h'), but maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

Thank you for your work on it, I'm glad that there is an alternative to switch to.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-17, 15:59

andyprough wrote:
2022-05-17, 13:06
this would be for Linux
OK that built fine, this will be fun to play with, thanks! One thing I noticed right away, on the welcome page where users are offered to get a mailfence or gandi.net email address, the text for those offers fades out on my Adwaita Dark GTK theme on Linux.

I was able to set up my email account using imap and it's downloading messages and working as expected.
2022-05-17_10-29.jpg
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-17, 16:12

Potkeny wrote:
2022-05-17, 14:48
epyrus.com exists, not sure if it's a problem, with the copyright-text on bottom saying 2010, but it is somewhat IT related. (It's a shame, I really like how it sounds.)
Well, the company name is actually Blue Mountain Software, Inc, and it appears to be a Korean-language business specific to Korea? So Epyrus is the name of a service they offer, not the name of their company. It's possible that I might be able to avoid trouble with them if I just explicitly avoid the Korean market. They aren't registered with USPTO, and I don't think they operate outside of Korea at all. I couldn't find any other languages on their site. They seem to only offer Korean-language eBooks.
andyprough wrote:
2022-05-17, 15:59
OK that built fine, this will be fun to play with, thanks! One thing I noticed right away, on the welcome page where users are offered to get a mailfence or gandi.net email address, the text for those offers fades out on my Adwaita Dark GTK theme on Linux.
Yeah, I will be removing that offer, it's a leftover from Thunderbird. I did all the technical work to get it building first and saved the whole debranding/rebranding process for last.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-05-17, 17:10

The epyrus.com domain and "ebook app" is different enough to not be confusing for any casual observer, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Finding a fully non-conflicting name for anything that hasn't been used before is pretty much impossible anymore anyway...
I just threw the name out there as a "by the way, here's an idea" thing, didn't think it would be that popular :shock:

Either way i don't think people would feel bad about having to re-vote. not like it takes a ton of time to click your choice and a button ;-)
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Snikkcir » 2022-05-17, 19:11

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-17, 12:56


Oh! I'm so sorry. I just assumed you were building on Windows for some reason. When people don't specify an OS, my brain defaults to Windows. Those were Windows build instructions... this would be for Linux:

Oh, is this new email client not for windows..??

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-17, 19:28

Snikkcir wrote:
2022-05-17, 19:11
Oh, is this new email client not for windows..??
Why would you assume it's not for Windows? He was trying to use the Windows build instructions on Linux. The Windows build instructions work fine on Windows. LOL.

EDIT: I think I figured out what you meant. "This would be for Linux" referred to the second .mozconfig I supplied him, not to the e-mail client.

Anyway, as far as OS support, the client should build on Windows, Linux, and SunOS. It's just that you can't mix and match the Windows .mozconfig to build on Linux, or vice-versa.
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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Likestofish » 2022-05-17, 20:38

I voted Epyrus since it just has that "thing-or-ring" about it, and i'm naturally more inclined towards Egyptian history and mythology anyways . But don't find yourself coming between me and Aristotle or Herodotus, just sayin'...

Frankly any of the proposed names would be most satisfactory, and as for the objection that Hermopolis references a pagan deity, any number of Christian saints and martyrs bore names that were very definitely, even gaudily, pagan. Aurelius Augustinus (St. Augustine of Hippo Regius) being but a singular example.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by mr tribute » 2022-05-17, 21:23

Epyrus is good although it makes me think of something that is about to catch fire, because it sounds too dry not to.

I was thinking about using well known "family names" like:

Goanna Mail
Pale Mail
UXP Mail

My initial idea was WonderMail, but it has been taken.

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Re: I'm working on a new E-mail client for UXP.

Unread post by Snikkcir » 2022-05-17, 21:40

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-17, 19:28
Snikkcir wrote:
2022-05-17, 19:11
Oh, is this new email client not for windows..??
Why would you assume it's not for Windows? He was trying to use the Windows build instructions on Linux. The Windows build instructions work fine on Windows. LOL.

EDIT: I think I figured out what you meant. "This would be for Linux" referred to the second .mozconfig I supplied him, not to the e-mail client.

Anyway, as far as OS support, the client should build on Windows, Linux, and SunOS. It's just that you can't mix and match the Windows .mozconfig to build on Linux, or vice-versa.
Ok thanks. Guess I'm easily confused these days...

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