Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-09, 03:34

The bitch of it is.. is if they had waited they would have gotten pretty much everything anyway. They still will if I ever complete it but the fact they had to get an agent to deceive me for a year and steal my work.. twice and then go on a keyboard warrior and cyber-terrorist crusade for months with death threats, telephone harassment, attempted doxing of easily searchable public information about me.. Just for the crime of defending intellectual property rights and the terms of a legally binding open source license is just insanity. And while some are in the US the bulk of them are in former soviet states across the eastern bloc still fighting the cold war for who knows what fuckin reason, arms race, secret agents, and espionage included.

Maybe I should just make it a paid subscription web client. That way only those interested, interested enough to pay money for it can buy it and of course they would be entitled to any MPL covered code used to produce it but it would HAVE to be from verified customers only and ONLY for verified versions within their subscription period.

If they really want it to be communism vs capitalism.. Maybe that is exactly what I should do. Follow the NTLite model Nuhi does .. Pay for new features during the subscription and they are yours but if you don't renew it then they simply won't get any new features beyond critical bugs and critical sec updates and so on. Dunno how that would work for a web client but it could be interesting to see. I dunno, I may just exterminate the entire project yet or release it. I just don't know.

Doing the standalone navigator has been my dream for a decade. While I am committed to the mail client even though the one year of continued development that was mandatory is long up.. Borealis is still in question.

I just don't know.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by athenian200 » 2021-11-09, 05:07

I support the idea of making the Navigator paid, especially since no one has given you donations for that and it's entirely your own passion project. There's nothing in the MPL that says the binaries have to be available for free. Doing it that way kinda feels like sticking it to the freeloaders. Shutting it down completely just seems kind of sad. I personally like paying for software licenses and feel kind of crummy when I download software for free... even when it's legal.

Overall, I would rather see you move more towards a entrepreneurial way of doing things that brings in a little money to support development, rather than give up because the modern open source community has let you down and its values aren't what you thought they were. I kinda like the idea of you having one of the last software projects to charge for software up front and ask people to continue to pay for support and new features, rather than requiring it to be totally community supported donation-based stuff or else tying it into a service so it's useless without it. The way business used to be done, the right way. Not the way it's done these days, where everything is either a poorly-made gimmick to tie you into a service you don't want, or some kind of crazy anti-business fever dream that blindly trusts what "the community" blesses, and is created by people who seem to hate money and property as concepts.

EDIT: Clarified context of post. Also forgot this wasn't in Off-Topic.
Last edited by athenian200 on 2021-11-09, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-09, 09:41

athenian200 wrote:
2021-11-09, 05:07
because the open source community and its values weren't what you thought they were
That's not entirely fair to the Open Source community. Those values did exist for a long time but, like so many things post 2010, they have been redefined into something entirely different that mocks and betrays the original thought behind it.
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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by athenian200 » 2021-11-09, 10:35

Moonchild wrote:
2021-11-09, 09:41
That's not entirely fair to the Open Source community. Those values did exist for a long time but, like so many things post 2010, they have been redefined into something entirely different that mocks and betrays the original thought behind it.
You're right. I changed my post because my original wording was very biased, and mostly came from a place of frustration with how Tobin was treated on r/opensource. I shouldn't think of those people as representing the whole open source community, but it was what I had in mind when I made that post.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by fatboy » 2021-11-09, 13:59

I will definitely pay for this browser, it is really good and most definitely worth every single dollar.
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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by daemonspudguy » 2021-11-09, 16:33

I would end up being screwed over by Borealis being subscription only. I am 17, and can't get a job where I live.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-09, 17:05

Well we will see what the new year will bring but it is worth looking into.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2021-11-09, 18:12

leothetechguy wrote:
2021-11-08, 20:31
Please finish this project, it is everything i ever wanted from a browser and more. Feel free to take your time and ignore the internet. I care for this browser but not when it will be done, because simply the fact that Developers can create such customizable browsers like Palemoon and Borealis Navigator amazes me. You are awesome.
I apologize for not talking about the horrible things that happened to you and distracting with praise. It came across as ignorant and selfish.
Although i enjoy coding, i have never put much effort into a single project. But spending so much time and not giving up, just for roytam to steal everything and ruin the trust you had in everyone around you. Is horrible.

I understand the reasoning behind the possibility of making borealis navigator a paid product. But as a big supporter of free open source software on github and other sites, it is still sad to see.

Dont force yourself to do anything, not because of us, not because of roytam.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-09, 18:30

I dunno what I want to do yet and you are fine.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by Likestofish » 2021-11-09, 22:23

I can still remember the box that Opera came in sitting in the storefront window of Radio Shack in the late 90's, around like 55 bucks in my neck of the woods back then IIRC. And of course you were effectively paying for IE when you bought Windows. Blew my mind some years later when Firefox came "free".

While I'll reflexively echo the sadness of others if Borealis has to be a paid product, that said, if it has to be, it has to be. All that work is worth something, a good deal in fact. A dedicated power user web client is no ordinary browser, and does not cater to common, but rather particular, tastes. Search engine deals and ad clicks won't pay for that, and that's just one (of many) reason(s) why the Opera of more recent years is no power user web client.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-09, 22:33

Maybe I just need a Standard and Professional edition.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by moonbat » 2021-11-09, 23:08

Don't be surprised if they start offering pirated versions of it elsewhere though. This crowd will stoop as far as they can.
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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-10, 00:18

You forget, proprietary code need not be disclosed only files under the MPL.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by moonbat » 2021-11-10, 01:46

No, I'm talking of them pirating the binaries in the event that you make it a paid-only commercial product.
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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-10, 04:12

If I did do that it would require registration key bound to a machine id.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by fatboy » 2021-11-10, 09:12

Maybe use an algorithm to generate a product key with a particular email, where your allowed to install Borealis X amount of time from this product key (depending on how many X licenses you bought with said product key?)
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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-11-10, 15:04

Oh yeah, i can use an email address.. Like all the fake ones used to send me death threats.. That's a valid scheme.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by daemonspudguy » 2021-11-18, 21:06

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-11-09, 17:05
Well we will see what the new year will bring but it is worth looking into.
Even still, just having the browser exist at all does make me feel happy. I don't want this whole community to die, and I want both your's and Moonchild's projects to continue for as long as you can handle it. I can't possibly imagine how constantly getting death threats feels, but I certainly know it isn't a good feeling.

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Re: Borealis Navigator Pre-Release Thread

Unread post by fatboy » 2021-11-26, 05:49

Busy watching this and getting all excited for Borealis Navigator :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOWOLJci8d8
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