The "Post-PC" era (smartphones)

[Mæstro]

I think [the world] already went [into lunacy or barbarism] long before smartphones.

You are right, of course. I did not mean to suggest all was right in the world twenty years ago. When I was writing that statement, I also had in mind several other subjects, none especially related to the others, which I could consider as having veered off the right path at different times, some many decades ago or even longer, if they were ever on the right one. (As an example in the foreground when I was writing, I believe the advent of DNA sequencing a catastrophe for natural history as a discipline.) That it happens in so many disparate fields to be the story of half my life is curious in itself to me. But as far as IT is concerned, I think that the phase from 2012–15 is critical, and smartphones bear most of the burden for our sorry state. The dramatic social effects of the online world leaking into everyday life, such that ‘everyday life’ for many people is substantially online, simply follow from this upheaval in technology I care about.

[Moonchild]

You know, the funny thing is I've been forced to use the smartphone non stop for just 2 weeks now or so, and I can't ever imagine this being my normal MO - it's extremely limiting and I can't do most stuff I'd do on my PC, and if I do, it feels clumsy, not giving me the feedback I need, and a lot of "trust me bro" situations I'm unhappy about.
Can't wait to get back to having my desk and pc set back up again.

Not to mention the constant typoes because apparently my charged fingertips make the on screen keyboard think I'm sliding my finger as i move off of a key, but it's already left the touch surface. Still coupled, apparently...

[Night Wing]

My ISP, Comcast, keeps offering me a free smartphone when I renew my one year contract with them. And I keep refusing the offer because I grew up 'without' a smartphone and I do not need one. When I tell that to the Comcast salesperson who is handling my account, they are extremely surprised I do not own a smartphone.

Secondly, like with Moonchild, there are many things I do on a desktop tower computer with a 32" external monitor which I cannot do on a smartphone. As an example, a financial spreedsheet is one of them where I use a mouse.

Even if I had a 32" touch screen external monitor, which my present 32" monitor is not, I would still use my mouse instead of my index finger to navigate around.

[Mæstro]

I have had a few instructive experiences with larger touchscreens, both with mobile and desktop OS. The original iPad was not nearly as awkward to use as a smartphone when I tried it, but typing and many other aspects of ordinary use were restricted. In portrait mode, the buttons were still too compressed for comfort. In landscape mode, which is how I tended to use it, the buttons were the size of ordinary keys, but it was impossible to see more than a few lines of anything one tried to write. In this, it was decidedly worse than a manual typewriter. Any files transferred from desktop could not be moved between folders (or albums, as I think it called them), nor could new images be saved into a folder created with transferred files. One could view PDF and e-books in Newsstand, but not sort them into folders. The skeuomorphic interface (updates ceased with iOS 5) suggested a display case as seen at a bookshop or beside a lonely Jehovah’s Witness, not a filing cabinet. Even disregarding the Flash question, Safari was sluggish. As a Windows user at the time, I did not perceive the need for an Apple account, so installing and updating applications were confused processes.

At uni in 2017, we used somewhat later iPads with spreadsheet software to read and use data from laboratory equipment. Our uni partnered with Apple; there were iMacs in every classroom and even an Apple Store on the premises. This was surely the only reason we were using iPads at all. I struggled to select cells or groups thereof in the spreadsheet. This was my last time attempting to use a tablet in any capacity, and it cemented my opinion that a tablet, like a smartphone, is just a computer with a crippled OS and improper input methods.

Physical keyboards and docks exist to turn tablets into cheap netbooks, but not even a proper (desktop) operating system or monitor is enough to redeem the touchscreen. In 2016, my first experiment with Linux came by installing Mint over Windows 10 on a laptop I had been given as an unsolicited gift. The installation was perfectly smooth, and had I known then what I know now (or even knew in 2020) about Linux, I could have left Windows behind five years before I actually did. That computer happened to have a touchscreen, and could even be folded to be used in landscape mode as if it were a giant tablet. It was also double my present monitor’s area. I mention all this because touchscreen support survived even when testing Mint on that. It was just a novelty to me; I found myself returning at once to the touchpad. Since then, I have come to use a simple graphic tablet instead of a mouse or trackpad since 2018. (I have replaced the pen twice: once after the pen had somehow bent, and again after falling onto my flat’s concrete floor damaged it. I exchanged the tablet itself ) The only time I touch a screen now is if I must wipe my monitor after an insect landed on it.

[Moonchild]

Vertically-oriented touchscreens have always been awkward and there is just no way to make it ergonomic outside of huge whiteboard type presentations. Laptops with one have always been stupid because what happens when you tap a laptop screen? You'll tilt the laptop... So yeah, i feel you ;p

[moonbat]

I had a work provided Thinkpad with a touchscreen for a while, the only use it had for me was for scrolling with one's thumb while holding the screen from the back instead of wearing out the mouse's scrollwheel (I always prefer using a mouse to a laptop's touchpad)

[frostknight]

You know, the funny thing is I've been forced to use the smartphone non stop for just 2 weeks now or so, and I can't ever imagine this being my normal MO - it's extremely limiting and I can't do most stuff I'd do on my PC, and if I do, it feels clumsy, not giving me the feedback I need, and a lot of "trust me bro" situations I'm unhappy about.
Can't wait to get back to having my desk and pc set back up again.

I feel the same way about smartphones, albeit when i talk about computers I mean laptops, not sure if you mean laptop or desktop. Some people do use desktop computers after all. I type on laptops SO much faster. I get impatient with typing on smartphones. Graphene or otherwise.

Also, its much, harder...

Btw, fun fact, I learned how to type because of online gaming, its because of this that smartphones are so much less helpful to me.

So I understand the feeling completely.

[Mæstro]

Hypothetically, I could use a desktop in bed if I had metres-long USB cables for my keyboard and tablet, which I know exist, and could fit a monitor onto my bed without risking it tipping. CRT would be advantageous here.
I have experimented with overbed and bedside tables, but they do not suit. I never use this laptop’s inbuilt keyboard, for I prefer mechanical keyboards and am a heavy enough hitter I would not want to risk damaging the hard drive by beating over it. I also move between residences fairly often (although this might no longer hold beginning a few months hence), and a laptop is less disruptive than I imagine carrying a hard drive with my desktop configuration across continents would be.

On those rare occasions when I anticipate I might need the internet when outside my home, or to cope with the railways using QR codes for tickets, I have brought out my other laptop. Carrying it in its case is not burdensome if I have got a suitcase or my trolley for groceries with it. Because I am aware of Android emulators, this is probably how I would react if society were ever truly to attempt to make smartphones mandatory.

[Moonchild]

As it is I've actually made mixed use of phone and an 11" Android tablet these two weeks. Hasn't even been pure phone use and even with that, it's been a slog.

[Mæstro]

It would appear that the twenties have been devoted to blurring the boundaries between mobile and desktop technology. Apple’s switching to ARM for its desktop version already belongs to this class (minding that Apple intends keeping iOS and Mac distinct), but I have just learnt from this article that recent iOS versions support running multiple windows at once, that Android has now got a desktop edition and that Chrome OS is due to be absorbed into desktop Android. It leaves me feeling rather giddy. The closest Microsoft has got to it would be the abortive Windows Phone or S Mode.

How did all this begin? Perhaps it was when the App Store arrived in Macintosh in 2011. It is funny that I prefer to install packages from my repository through a software manager instead of apt, but I reject any kind of (generic) app store, and always think of Flathub, Snap and the like as belonging in the latter bin. ReactOS’s package manager and the Microsoft Store likewise strike me as basically unlike each other. I can intuit an essential difference between the two, but putting it into words is harder. Maybe it is the centralised or commercial nature of an app store, as opposed to mirroring and the ability to combine several repository sources.

[Night Wing]

I do not use any Flathub or Snap applications in any linux distro I use.

[jarsealer]

I do not use any Flathub or Snap applications in any linux distro I use.

I don't see anything wrong with them (except for Snap, I've heard it can contain proprietary software from MS or something) if it makes it easier for new Linux users. Especially AppImages, which is like the .exe equivalent for Linux. Otherwise the distro's package manager and repositories is preferred.

[Mæstro]

This post might seem a bit flamey, but it is directed against the powers that be, not you or Flathub or Snap users at all.
I have already grumbled elsewhere about how Appimage is far more unreliable than Windows executables. As for Flathub, it explicitly imports the commercial, smartphone-centred mode of thought somewhere which has never been for profit. It styles itself ‘the app store for Linux’. It speaks of Linux desktop users as a ‘market’. It speaks of ‘apps’ instead of packages, and leaves no doubt that it means them in the way Steve Jobs would want you to think of them, not just short for application. The ‘get it on Flathub’ icon cannot be more blatant. The same comments hold for Snap. They seem to make things easier for new users, but only because Google and Apple have swindled the world (and I do mean the world: smartphones are more widespread than indoor plumbing!) into believing that a man ought to go from the cradle to the grave addicted to a glowing oblong, and new users today know no better than that lie they have been fed. If I sound uncharacteristically bitter here, it is the same passion felt when Google flings web design standards round like a wet towel.

[Lucio Chiappetti]

It is funny that I prefer to install packages from my repository through a software manager instead of apt, but I reject any kind of (generic) app store, and always think of Flathub, Snap and the like as belonging in the latter bin.

I tend to agree with you. I avoid snaps also because they are sandboxed.
In general I use the repository manager (Synaptic for ubuntu, Yast2 for openSuse) for the ease of finding something by topic. However if I find a link which gives me the full apt command I use it. Incidentally, my usual working shell is tcsh, not bash. But if one uses bash, and types a command which is supplied by a package which is not installed, it will suggest the appropirate apt command for the appropriate package.
I may also use .deb files, or tar.gz. Last resource building from sources. (all the parts in this colour of course require using a terminal )

[Mæstro]

Ah, but in LMDE, installing from tarball or .deb does not require the terminal.
Gdebi manages .deb packages, the native archive manager (probably a Debian metapackage) tarballs.

[jarsealer]

Ah, but in LMDE, installing from tarball or .deb does not require the terminal.
Gdebi manages .deb packages, the native archive manager (probably a Debian metapackage) tarballs.

It comes with the cinnamon DE. You probably don't want to install .debs that have more than 3 dependencies, since you'd have to install all of those .debs individually, whereas APT fetches all the dependencies automatically. That happened to me when I tried installing a deprecated package (gconf) which had multiple dependencies. I do install WeeChat .debs (core, plugins, curses) for the latest versions, because APT has lower versions and no trixie-backports. Gdebi also outputs lintian logs, not sure what they're for.

Off-topic:
When I switched to using Linux (LM 21) from Win 11 2 years ago, I used the graphical software manager similar to gnome-software, which has pretty design and UI, and also showed images and packages from APT and flatpak and other repos. I found it to be quite slow when it refreshed the cache every time I ran it, hence why I switched to Synaptic instead. Now I solely use the terminal for installing, removing, and searching for packages, using apt-get.

One thing I'm starting to dislike about debian is sometimes the programs I use are older versions in the repos. This makes sense it's supposed to be a stable distro, but It still bothers me. Backports exist but they're not that many. Hence why I'm considering hopping to another distro.

[UCyborg]

Regarding Australia ban on smartphone use for younger folks and all the stupid shit people do on these things...what happened to personal accountability? Good bye common sense values and ethics...

[Night Wing]

I do not use any Flathub or Snap applications in any linux distro I use.

I don't see anything wrong with them (except for Snap, I've heard it can contain proprietary software from MS or something) if it makes it easier for new Linux users.

The disadvantages of Flathub (Flatpak) software in linux. I'll list a few.

1) Larger disk usage because of bundled libraries
2) Sometimes slower start up times
3) Integration issues which involve theming
4) Security concerns where third party packaging is involved

As for Snaps, you got it half right. Snaps are proprietary, but they are not from MS (Microsoft). They are from Ubuntu which is a "walled garden" which ties the application to the Ubuntu store.

When I was running Mint, not now, but back then, there were no Snap applications installed by default. If you wanted a Snap application, you had to download it and it did not come not from the Mint repository, but from Ubuntu.

[Gemmaugr]

Regarding Australia ban on smartphone use for younger folks and all the stupid shit people do on these things...what happened to personal accountability? Good bye common sense values and ethics...

Acount..Accont..Accountabillity. Yeah, who needs that with Daddy Government and Big Brother corporations "looking out for you", making sure you don't see or hear anything offensive, and remove all those needlessly complex freedoms and choice. They even give out plenty of participation trophies! Just make sure to abide by their every word, or you'll be put in time-out.

Sadly, accountability is gone. Replaced by entitlement.

[Moonchild]

Off-topic:

Daddy Government and Big Brother corporations "looking out for you", making sure you don't see or hear anything offensive

I have only one question for daddy government and big corpos: How do you know what I find offensive?