Ladybird browser - will it fly?

[SlySven]

A college knowing of my interest in web-browsers that have not supped gulped down the Google cool-aide drew my attention to the "from-scratch" Ladybird browser project that has now split from the Serenity OS that spawned it as an HTML viewer. Does it stand a chance do we think?

[Moonchild]

We currently have 4 paid full-time engineers working on Ladybird. There is also a large community of volunteer contributors.

I hope for them that that is enough to write a new web browser engine from scratch...
The collective set of web standards is absolutely obscenely large and complex. An "HTML viewer" is a really small portion of what it is these days.

[suzyne]

Does it stand a chance

One day, maybe.

But if they are actually serious about challenging Google, Ladybird will need to run on Windows. Until that time, it will be just another niche browser project that leaves a minority of internet freedom devotees feeling good about what they are using, without actually changing the browser landscape.

[Moonchild]

Yeah I had a look into it a bit more. For their mention of "cross platform", it is limited to Linux and as far as I understood (limited) Mac, and maybe Illumos. But it isn't targeting Android or Windows. Without the Windows market share or plans to develop for it, they may also have trouble attracting corporate sponsors, especially if those sponsors won't be able to buy some modicum of influence.

[jobbautista9]

I'm skeptical, but I do hope they succeed somehow. It would be a fresh breath of air.

FWIW you can technically run Ladybird in Windows, but it will obviously need WSL2. And last time I did that is before they split it off from Serenity.

It's also interesting that they dropped (not just split off from) Serenity as a target OS even though it's literally the one that spawned the project in the first place. Kinda sad to see that but probably necessary if they want to focus on ensuring cross-platformability between the mainstream OSes... They really need to get that native Windows binary as soon as they can if they want the early mindshare.

[suzyne]

From the Ladybird website:

That's why I believe that Ladybird, a new browser written completely from scratch,

Maybe I am missing something, but in terms of not using Chromium, I would have thought that if Ladybird put their resources towards helping the Otter team to release up-to-date and easy to install versions of Otter on Windows (and did a little work on expanding the add-on library), that would be a quicker and more efficient way to stick it to Google.

But yes, from scratch sounds way more fun?

[jobbautista9]

Well I'm even less optimistic now lol: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814

I would've just dropped the pronoun altogether (like replace "he" with "the user") if I were the lead dev. It's much better practice anyway when it comes to documentation imo (as a former Bulbapedia editor we always use "the player" instead of using pronouns when talking about the games)

[moonbat]

But yes, from scratch sounds way more fun?

You can't stick it to Google by using Blink or Gecko given the former belongs to them and the latter as well might. We need to go back to separate browser engines following a stable HTML standard (the latter is what seems more impossible now).

[jobbautista9]

Maybe I am missing something, but in terms of not using Chromium, I would have thought that if Ladybird put their resources towards helping the Otter team to release up-to-date and easy to install versions of Otter on Windows (and did a little work on expanding the add-on library), that would be a quicker and more efficient way to stick it to Google.

Isn't Otter using Chromium/Blink via QtWebEngine? But they did use WebKit before, though I'm not sure how much a cross-platform WebKit/Apple browser would add... Would be convenient for webdevs on Windows for sure who would want a WebKit reference, but it doesn't help much in addressing the issue of an oligopoly in web engines imo.

[suzyne]

But they did use WebKit before

My mistake, I thought Otter still used WebKit, and my thinking is that, not being Chromium would be a positive quality?

But since Otter doesn't use it, that thought is moot.

[Moonchild]

I think they may not yet realize how "basing on web standards" in the current environment doesn't cut it because the standards there are, are not what the web uses (the churning collection of Google drafts as-implemented in Chrome).

[Night Wing]

I do not see what the big deal is concerning this browser. After all, the first alpha release of Ladybird is going to be in...........2026. A lot can happen between now and the next 18 months of time.

[vannilla]

I want to believe™.
What I'm mostly concerned about is that if it gets done and popular, it will be touted as the "only independent web browser" because for some arcane reason people refuse to acknowledge Pale Moon or Basilisk.

[mrnhmath]

Eh, I wish all this enthusiasm would be put into the actual independent effort for an open web. Let's continue to do our part.

[Basilisk-Dev]

Well I'm even less optimistic now lol

I love ladybird now

[joydivision47]

I feel they might be able to make a difference if they get enough monetary funding, especially now that they're backed by a non-profit. Although that won't be for a long time and especially not until they get proper Windows binaries out, though.

I've been looking at this project for a long time. Built it on my Linux computer to check it out, and the amount of progress they've made so far is quite astounding, especially in the age of the modern internet where everything has to be a bloated laggy web app for some reason.

[Eduardolucas1]

I'm skeptical, but I do hope they succeed somehow. It would be a fresh breath of air.

FWIW you can technically run Ladybird in Windows, but it will obviously need WSL2. And last time I did that is before they split it off from Serenity.

It's also interesting that they dropped (not just split off from) Serenity as a target OS even though it's literally the one that spawned the project in the first place. Kinda sad to see that but probably necessary if they want to focus on ensuring cross-platformability between the mainstream OSes... They really need to get that native Windows binary as soon as they can if they want the early mindshare.

I think their views on gender pronouns are less important to their chances of achieving their objectives than the corporate monopolistic complexity of the web.

[Moonchild]

I think their views on gender pronouns are less important to their chances of achieving their objectives

I had a brief look at the linked issue about it on SerenityOS... Jeez what a nothingburger; all those triggered people should just accept that 'anon' is male and move on XD
But no, I guess the SJWs would jump into the breach and kill a good project rather than just let it be.

[suzyne]

I don't have sufficient interest to follow up and read about what the pronoun argument is all about. But doesn't anyone else think that the project is inherently gender biased and possibly sexist from the start for calling the browser Ladybird? Wouldn't a more neutral noun be better?

In case it isn't obvious, this is a silly attempt at humour.

[back2themoon]

It's an insult to birds, too.