A question regarding users of windows,

[frostknight]

I don't wish to beat a dead horse, but I am curious about somethings,

Windows 10 introduced forced upgrades

Windows 11 deprecated a lot of hardware and has that awful idea called windows recall which snapshots absolutely everything you do on windows 11. Its disabled by default now, but who knows if that will be the future.

Windows 7 and before hand, I had at least some understanding with the exception of vista of course why people use it or used it. It at least could be used without internet connection or email being required.

I am not a windows user as you all definitely know.


But I am curious, if windows recall, deprecated perfectly good hardware is a concern to any of you.

PS, I am fully aware linux has its share of flaws (thanks redhat for your bloat! *sarcasm*)

Anywho, I definitely find fault with most operating systems not just windows. I am curious to what you will say. Brb later.

[suzyne]

I have never had a problem resulting from the (forced) Windows updates. I imagine some are philosophically opposed to the idea (it's my hardware, I say what goes on it) but given that the automatic updates on my two laptops have never broken anything, I haven't been confronted with a situation that has annoyed or triggered grief over being a Windows user.

From the tiny amount of information I have read about the Recall feature, it is not clear to me whether it will only be targeted at business/ corporate users only? So right now, given that I have no plans to switch to Windows 11, I don't see it affecting me in the immediate future or maybe even ever. I think it is a case of waiting and finding out more about Recall.

I suppose if I get a new laptop, it will come with Windows 11, and then I will need to think long and hard about how I handle that situation of a new Windows version.

I don't wish to beat a dead horse, but I am curious about somethings,

You don't ask it explicitly, but are you wondering how many of us would jump to Linux if the need arises?

As a general principle, I am not totally opposed to the idea, but you would need to come back and ask that again at some undefined time in the future when my laptops are no longer capable of doing what I need them to.

[Pentium4User]

I think the EoL of Windows 10 will lead some users to other operating systems, but the amount will be small, maybe 5%.

The vast majority doesn't care about privacy (look at the behavior, not the talks) nor about planned obsolescence by not supporting "older" hardware.

[frostknight]

The vast majority doesn't care about privacy (look at the behavior, not the talks) nor about planned obsolescence by not supporting "older" hardware.

Except, privacy of banking information and passwords might matter to windows users.

Recall supposedly is supposed to make that even harder.

You don't ask it explicitly, but are you wondering how many of us would jump to Linux if the need arises?

As a general principle, I am not totally opposed to the idea, but you would need to come back and ask that again at some undefined time in the future when my laptops are no longer capable of doing what I need them to.

I actually am not just wondering about how many of you guys here, but how many in general will flee windows due to the windows recall and planned obsolescence

If you have to choose between 10 and 11 though, 11 is worse probably.

If you have to flee windows and want something that looks similar, Zorin OS is probably the closest I have seen.

It has more proprietary stuff than ubuntu even. Although I am not sure which hardware handles it best or if its getting better with each new version. I would guess they probably are improving it. But yeah.

Part of also why the obsolescence is so problematic is people do not like to have to buy new hardware when they know its perfectly capable of preforming with the new OS but the corporate punks in this case windows, won't support it.

I know I have seen many on youtube (via invidio frontend) talk about this as being a reason they are ditching windows. Even on linustechtips regarding the subject of windows 11 bad news. Even a mainstream youtuber of that sort has people posting how that was the last straw for them.

Or "windows 10 was the last windows"

At least for those specific users anyhow.

[suzyne]

The vast majority doesn't care about privacy (look at the behavior, not the talks) nor about planned obsolescence by not supporting "older" hardware.

Except, privacy of banking information and passwords might matter to windows users.

That sort of privacy (or more like security?) certainly matters to me, but if I was told "Your Windows 10 computer is now a security risk because of end-of-life!" I wouldn't sweat it and run out and get new hardware or a different OS, I would simply do all my banking through the app on my phone. For the banks I am familiar with, having to use a proper computer is no longer necessary for all the transactions that I need to do.

[Potkeny]

Except, privacy of banking information and passwords might matter to windows users.

Recall supposedly is supposed to make that even harder.

While Recall is a security nightmare, MS made that opt-in after the backlash, so it might be okay for most endusers (who dont touch anything in settings anyway).

[Massacre]

People use Windows because of software and hardware support. Until someone will release a LTS version of Linux or BSD that will be binary compatible for decades and every software and hardware vendor will support it...

[Pentium4User]

People use Windows because of software and hardware support. Until someone will release a LTS version of Linux or BSD that will be binary compatible for decades and every software and hardware vendor will support it...

As long as the marketshare is that low and as long as proprietary stuff (software, file formats) exist, there will be software that only runs on specific operating systems.
Windows versions have incompatibilities, but the marketshare is that high that almost all vendors supports it.

[Massacre]

As long as the marketshare is that low and as long as proprietary stuff (software, file formats) exist, there will be software that only runs on specific operating systems.
Windows versions have incompatibilities, but the marketshare is that high that almost all vendors supports it.

More compatibility -> less code rewrite -> more profitability -> biggest market share. This also applies to users and their hardware.

[Pentium4User]

As long as the marketshare is that low and as long as proprietary stuff (software, file formats) exist, there will be software that only runs on specific operating systems.
Windows versions have incompatibilities, but the marketshare is that high that almost all vendors supports it.

More compatibility -> less code rewrite -> more profitability -> biggest market share. This also applies to users and their hardware.

More compatibility often means more choice for users. Something that MS doesn't like at some parts.

[Moonchild]

People use Windows because of software and hardware support.

People keep using Windows because no other O.S. so far has been up to the task of providing a solid user interface to the computing hardware that is both friendly to less technical users and runs a vast majority of software in a stable and consistent way that users and businesses have bought into. the problem with FOSS alternatives is that the developers of FOSS operating systems want to sell a philosophy, not a piece of software. That's just not what the majority of users want. They want something that doesn't get in the way of using the computer hardware and installed software (unfortunately Microsoft seems to be forgetting that lesson with later iterations of Windows 11...)

[suzyne]

I find compatibility with older software as one strength of Windows.

The way that Apple decided to drop support for 32 bit software really frustrated me. I may not appreciate all the technical reasons Apple gave at the time for doing it, but I own a Mac (not actively used anymore) and there was software that I once used on it, where the developer was very slow to release a 64 bit version, so I had to delay indefinitely upgrading to the newer OS X and macOS because of the way Apple broke compatibility.

I can't speak knowledgeably about Linux, but I suspect the mainstream versions of it have also gone on a similar path to Apple?

But somehow Microsoft manages to support 32 bit applications (and hardware) without the sky falling in, and don't arbitrarily break software that still works just fine.

[moonbat]

the problem with FOSS alternatives is that the developers of FOSS operating systems want to sell a philosophy, not a piece of software

Exactly this.

Microsoft seems to be forgetting that lesson with later iterations of Windows 11

I'd say it started with 8, and the removal of features as Windows has been turning user hostile since then - removal of desktop friendly features, forced telemetry and updates, constantly resetting default applications after updates. Plus there are things even an administrator account isn't allowed to change; this is not a good precedent.

[frostknight]

People keep using Windows because no other O.S. so far has been up to the task of providing a solid user interface to the computing hardware that is both friendly to less technical users and runs a vast majority of software in a stable and consistent way that users and businesses have bought into. the problem with FOSS alternatives is that the developers of FOSS operating systems want to sell a philosophy, not a piece of software.

The closest linux that I see that has solid user interface that is friendlier to technical users is ZorinOS Lite. (looks like XP)

The running vast majority of software in stable consistent way for users and businesses has not happen yet for any distro.

This is in fact true.

That sort of privacy (or more like security?) certainly matters to me, but if I was told "Your Windows 10 computer is now a security risk because of end-of-life!" I wouldn't sweat it and run out and get new hardware or a different OS, I would simply do all my banking through the app on my phone. For the banks I am familiar with, having to use a proper computer is no longer necessary for all the transactions that I need to do.

Its not end of life though is it? I thought it loses support at october 2025? That is weird.

And yes, security and privacy have places where they are the same thing. Not always or even a lot of the time, but some places yes. maybe 30% of the time at least?

the problem with FOSS alternatives is that the developers of FOSS operating systems want to sell a philosophy, not a piece of software. That's just not what the majority of users want. They want something that doesn't get in the way of using the computer hardware and installed software (unfortunately Microsoft seems to be forgetting that lesson with later iterations of Windows 11...)

A good portion of FOSS operating systems are that way. Some like Ubuntu and ZorinOS are trying to bridge that gap. As for doesn't get in the way, that ship sailed with windows 8 and newer. Windows 8 was not a huge problem for me when I used it. But it was very annoying even with my technical experience back then. I ultimately left it because windows 8.1 upgrade when it came out showed suspicious signs of memory being used by like 3x more than usual. This is when I found out the hellish secrets of windows that I never knew.

Talked to a family friend and they said windows anything is not secure and same with Google products. He mentioned a meeting with IBM where he said that he asked if windows had a backdoor and EVERYONE was silent.

That's when I decided to begin to ditch windows. It did take a year of research and I switched back many times. But after like 2+ years. I did it.

I did have distrohopping issues till 2018 though.

That's when Hyperbola's 0.2 milky way version came out and I could actually have FDE encryption on libreboot.

Anywho, I only recommend linux and that goes x1000 more so especially Hyperbola for patient users who are willing to make changes if needed.

Though for regular linux, you won't have nearly as many problems but some do exist still. Windows only software if it isn't supported by wine or is glitchy on wine is understandable.


I recommend you all try ZorinOS on virtualbox or some other virtual machine type situation. The lite version is like XP. Who knows, you might like it.

Any others? Probably not. And if you need it for specific purposes that windows is requrired for that definitely is a problem.

Anywho, that's my thoughts in a nutshell.

[suzyne]

I have previously had MX Linux recommended to me on this forum as a possible replacement for Windows. I have now gladly added ZorinOS to my notes.

I found this in a news article about ZorinOS. (It's an animation, so you might need to click on it in imgur to make it start.)

https://imgur.com/jLOrTWP

When I see an interface like this, I have to wonder who actually uses something like that for more than a few minutes before the novelty wears off?

[Night Wing]

At the computer repair shop where I volunteer at, when people come into the shop who do not like the direction Microsoft is taking with the Windows operating system, they inquire about alternative operating systems. We always mention some linux distributions.

Some are quite curious and want to learn more about linux distributions. But we make sure to tell them if they need a Windows only program they "must have", we tell them to stay with Windows.

I have set up two computers at the shop with linux distributions loaded on them. One computer is a 15" laptop loaded with 64 bit Linux Mint in Xfce on a SSD. The other computer is a desktop tower computer hooked up to a 27" external monitor. It is also loaded with 64 bit Linux Mint in Xfce on a SSD.

But this desktop tower computer has a three hard drive bay in it. There are two other SSD's in it also and they are loaded with 64 bit MX Linux in Xfce and 64 bit Debian in Xfce.

I'm the one who sits down with these people while using the desktop tower computer so if people want to see another linux distro besides Mint, I bring up the Boot Menu and show them MX Linux and Debian. We let them use the desktop tower to get a "feel" for different linux distros.

Most people like Mint and usually end up going with Mint because Mint is a very easy to learn distro. BTW, Xfce is a nice desktop environment for someone who is thinking about coming over from Windows to Linux (in my opinion) since I am not a power user in linux. Just a non technical user in linux.

Off-topic:
Below are my three favorite linux distros in order of preference. And they are:

1) MX Linux
2) Linux Mint
3) Debian

[RealityRipple]

IMO, regular users don't give a shit about the OS anymore, they only use the web browser anyway.

[Moonchild]

IMO, regular users don't give a shit about the OS anymore, they only use the web browser anyway.

Those can just use ChromeOS, then.

[Massacre]

IMO, regular users don't give a shit about the OS anymore, they only use the web browser anyway.

Regular web users...

[moonbat]

Regular web users...

There isn't any other statistically significant kind.