Proprietary software and "conspiracy theories"

[frostknight]

windefender_palemoon.PNG

Facepalm.jpeg

Seriously this is why I dislike proprietary software, biases like this are crap. Although some open source softwares do the same, albeit less.

Palemoon is not malware despite the big greedy data collectors wanting it to seem so, including the current mozilla.

[Moonchild]

Seriously this is why I dislike proprietary software

This has nothing to do with proprietary software. It's just a false positive that has everything to do with the way virusscanners work (and can be super sensitive to complex, optimized software, especially if new and not code-signed)

[frostknight]

This has nothing to do with proprietary software. It's just a false positive that has everything to do with the way virusscanners work (and can be super sensitive to complex, optimized software, especially if new and not code-signed)

Are you sure? The big tech industries are against you after all...

That's why I thought this might be that.

[Moonchild]

Are you sure? The big tech industries are against you after all...

Unless I see clear and decisive evidence for it I won't be entertaining these kinds of conspiratorial thoughts.

[frostknight]

Unless I see clear and decisive evidence for it I won't be entertaining these kinds of conspiratorial thoughts.

That's probably wise, good point.

[Bilbo47]

The big tech industries are against you

[will not entertain] these kinds of conspiratorial thoughts.

I believe it's a mistake to dismiss ideas or lines of thought like this out of hand, by calling them names. Remember, the whole meme of "conspiracy theory" was explicitly invented by those hiding secrets, so as to shut down everyone else's natural impulse to discover and publicize those secrets. I agree it's silly to believe that backroom meetings are designing schemes to shut down all but "approved" browsers. However, *no actual conspiracy* is required to achieve the *same effect*, because of synergies between big tech, government, the censorship industrial complex, etc. The Twitter Files exposed actual malfeasance in this realm. The expression "they're all out to get us" is *not* to be taken literally. It is a *shorthand* to remind everyone to *behave as if* that were the situation. Failing to protect the community's interests this way is IMO generally inviting its destruction sooner instead of never/later.

[Moonchild]

The expression "they're all out to get us" is *not* to be taken literally. It is a *shorthand* to remind everyone to *behave as if* that were the situation.

And i'm saying that that kind of behaviour is necessarily born from conspiratorial thinking, so what is the effective result? it's the same, just worded differently.
Unless you're telling me you routinely fake everything on a daily basis just so you can "behave as if" everyone is out to get you but you don't really think they are. And in that case, why can't you just be genuine and not create a hostile environment and toxicity though that behaviour?

Think about that

[frostknight]

And i'm saying that that kind of behaviour is necessarily born from conspiratorial thinking, so what is the effective result? it's the same, just worded differently.
Unless you're telling me you routinely fake everything on a daily basis just so you can "behave as if" everyone is out to get you but you don't really think they are. And in that case, why can't you just be genuine and not create a hostile environment and toxicity though that behaviour?

Think about that

Conspiracies sometimes are best met head-on, but not always, so what you said just now, makes sense.

In any case, I will admit, for yet another time just so the majority of users see it on here... hopefully they actually pay attention to this? Idk... lol.

Linux is for sure flawed, I don't like all the bogus frameworks that linux has that are overly complicate the system such as dbus, systemd, avahi, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, polkit and their libraries.

Linux definitely has room to improve here by removing this trash and doing things on a community level and not have corporate morons do it for them and thus making linux more difficult then it needs to be.

I won't hold my breath and linux removing these dumb frameworks or on windows, apple or google getting any better in their methodology. But at bare minimum, a few alternatives do exist. So who knows.

My point, is that as bad as linux has gotten, it is still better than the proprietary options like mac, windows and google systems.

Customization and windows last I checked was almost none. macosx and chromeos, I have no idea though but usually customization is a mess on proprietary operating systems more and more with the future.

I have more respect for windows 7 now that windows 10 and newer have since come out. They still crap imo, but I guess they weren't as bad as I thought.

Forced upgrades is a very foolish idea given the potential for borking that it has, especially given the way they structure it.

Big entities can pass for a while
home users cannot

Unless this has changed.

To be clear, I mostly dislike all operating systems, I am very picky and I understand that.

BSD isn't perfect either including OpenBSD. Their RTFM attitude is really irritating, or I might have installed OpenBSD a lot sooner...

[moonbat]

My point, is that as bad as linux has gotten, it is still better than the proprietary options like mac, windows and google systems.

Not when it comes to UI/UX. Lack of consistency thanks to multiple different distributions, window managers, file managers and toolkits. Some use the despicable 'modern' app style look with a hamburger menu to be closer to GNOME 3, others stay on with the regular GTK or Qt look that's in line with established desktop conventions. It's going to be 5 years since I moved to Linux Mint but there's still inconsistent appearance and behavior to contend with. And I haven't even gotten to driver support - I made a thread about my wifi suddenly becoming massively slow after a kernel update and all I've been able to do is switch to a USB wifi dongle since it appears to have perpetually botched compatibility with my onboard wifi.

Also please don't quote the entire post when replying, especially if your reply is immediately after.

[suzyne]

Linux is for sure flawed, I don't like all the bogus frameworks that linux has that are overly complicate the system such as dbus, systemd, avahi, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, polkit and their libraries.

Linux definitely has room to improve here by removing this trash and doing things on a community level and not have corporate morons do it for them and thus making linux more difficult then it needs to be.

When I read about "bogus frameworks" the question I have is, were the creators of such frameworks trying to solve a clear and present problem, or were they intentionally over-engineering Linux because it's fun, to keep their jobs, or something else?

[Pentium4User]

Linux is for sure flawed, I don't like all the bogus frameworks that linux has that are overly complicate the system such as dbus, systemd, avahi, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, polkit and their libraries.

Linux definitely has room to improve here by removing this trash and doing things on a community level and not have corporate morons do it for them and thus making linux more difficult then it needs to be.

When I read about "bogus frameworks" the question I have is, were the creators of such frameworks trying to solve a clear and present problem, or were they intentionally over-engineering Linux because it's fun, to keep their jobs, or something else?

The reason for that is freedom. There is a need for software like NetworkManager, Pulse Audio, avahi (mDNS)).
In Windows, MS decides what will be implemented and if "legacy" parts will be removed. In Linux, most distributions have a default but give users the freedom to decide if they want those packages or not.

[Moonchild]

There is a need for software like NetworkManager, Pulse Audio, avahi (mDNS)).

In Windows, MS decides

According to whom? Are you deciding for everyone?
What makes you different from MS then? Oh right, that "freedom" you so tout, only this time the freedom of others - but I guess that's not what you want to apply

But as you see, Linux is lacking some high-level direction as I've already said for years, which has been its bane for adoption. "there's a distro for that" is actually a bad thing in that context, because you don't want "a distro for everything" if you want adoption. Does that make anyone making those decisions but you nefarious? No, but that's the thing I eel is the sentiment in many places because 'how can you take away our freedom by deciding what to keep/toss". In fact, I've seen that same attitude here for Pale Moon a number of times; I can only imagine the volume of that if it's a whole operating system.

[frostknight]

The reason for that is freedom. There is a need for software like NetworkManager, Pulse Audio, avahi (mDNS)).
In Windows, MS decides what will be implemented and if "legacy" parts will be removed. In Linux, most distributions have a default but give users the freedom to decide if they want those packages or not.

Not as forced dependencies though. You cannot remove most of that stuff and their libraries, in mainstream distros like debian or hell, even less mainstream like devuan, you remove libpulse and similar stuff? the whole operating system is gone practically.

My main beef with those libraries is that you cannot remove them even if you don't plan to use them. That is sheer arrogance on the devs' part.

Not when it comes to UI/UX. Lack of consistency thanks to multiple different distributions, window managers, file managers and toolkits. Some use the despicable 'modern' app style look with a hamburger menu to be closer to GNOME 3, others stay on with the regular GTK or Qt look that's in line with established desktop conventions.

Funny you should say that, windows has a lot of trashy modern app stuff too. And on linux, you can at least choose to say no to GNOME, MATE, KDE, CINNAMON, LXQT, etc...

and use a window manager or LXDE and XFCE4 the latter being not great, but better than the current modern stuff.

At this point, "Modern" seems to mean fisher price crap UI. So I am with you there on some of those. Gnome is the worst. Someone satirically at GNOME on devuan forums has this as their signature:

Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.


Somewhat joking but mainly serious.

Oh right, that "freedom" you so tout, only this time the freedom of others - but I guess that's not what you want to apply

Depends on what you consider to be freedom.

forced upgrades, customization, no backdoors, no forced ads, spyware not being constantly forced down your throat and removing components you don't want is far worse in windows.

Windows 10 though is when it really got bad for most of this. I have what you might call -100% respect for windows. It used to be more like -50% or 0%.

Them forced upgrades are beyond astonishing though. That is some cheeky level arrogance.

[frostknight]

Seems you may be right moonchild,

Supposedly I watched this video:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MuBeblbUXpU

it mentions that anti-viruses on windows are mega flawed and have a lot of false positives.

So... it seems you were right.