Windows 11 still sucks.

[Mæstro]

I begin to wonder how much windows updates actually help security. I have heard some on youtube say they never update and have never had problems. I don't know if this is the best philosophy or not…

In fact, I disabled Windows Updater sometime in early 2015, to guarantee that my computer would never begin to nag me about Windows 10. Nagware struck me as just another kind of malware, and I had heard whispers about possible updates introducing telemetry, so my choices struck me as surely installing nagware and potential spyware now, or hazard maybe installing malware of some sort later. Judging by the security of my digital and financial accounts, and the level of CPU load, through the remainder of my Windows 7 epoch, paid antivirus software, lots of advert and tracker blockers and my general caution when browsing sufficed to protect me.

A screenshot which I happened to take in June 2015 has survived in my records. I would rather not post it, but it reveals that, at the time, I used Adblock Plus (no acceptable adverts), Web of Trust, Ghostery, a free VPN (I have since learnt better), a CSS editor and Greasemonkey (I forget why for both, probably hacks for particular sites), as well as Norton for my antivirus. Later, Disconnect was added to complement Ghostery. I think I replaced both Norton and the free VPN with Avast, as described above, in 2018 or 2019, and these with Malwarebytes and Private Internet Access, my current VPN, in June 2020.

Do the 2026 Windows XP users report problems with malware on their boards? I think one could find a clear, empirical answer there.

[Moonchild]

Do the 2026 Windows XP users report problems with malware on their boards? I think one could find a clear, empirical answer there.

Probably not as easy to find an answer there. People still running XP in 2026 are also most likely the kind of people who would not report problems with malware if they get it.

[frostknight]

People still running XP in 2026 are also most likely the kind of people who would not report problems with malware if they get it.

I assume because they know people would tell them to upgrade their OS?

Just guessing here

[Octopuss]

For all the good reasons.
Heck I wouldn't touch Windows 7 anymore just because of what I assume would be core OS level incompatibilies with more modern hardware. If you'd install it on a Core 2 Duo then by all means I guess.

[Mæstro]

I assume because they know people would tell them to upgrade their OS?
Just guessing here

Within a community explicitly devoted to continued XP use, telling an XP user to upgrade should most likely be dismissed or deleted as trolling. I doubt that is at work here. If current XP users are unlikely to speak among themselves about malware, there are other reasons.

Heck I wouldn't touch Windows 7 anymore just because of what I assume would be core OS level incompatibilies with more modern hardware. If you'd install it on a Core 2 Duo then by all means I guess.

I wonder whether we will see open-source hardware constructed deliberately for Windows 2000, XP and 7, in the way we have got replications of the PS1 and Commodore 64. Perhaps they will intentionally omit any networking hardware if the developers intend them only to be used for games, but one can never be sure of this.

Edited for clarity: ‘this kind of reply’ meant Alice telling Bob to stop using XP on a board for users who want to keep using it!

[Octopuss]

Open source hardware?

[Mæstro]

Open source hardware?

Open hardware seeks to embody design and legal principles akin to those used for open software. Patents still expire (even after renewal) within a reasonable timespan, the way copyrights used to work, and require documenting pertinent technical features, so my understanding is that early XP-era hardware could legally be reconstructed by independent manufacturers if anybody is interested. Open principles could then ensure new or modified designs are also free for the community to build or adapt.

[UCyborg]

Off-topic:
One place with vocal XP fanatics I used to check regularly didn't have any such reports. One thread dedicated to anti-virus software for XP, the described merits were vague. Saying said software "catches things", but nothing conclusive.

XP this and XP that really gets old in the end. I'll never understand fascination some people have with that OS.

[moonbat]

Off-topic:

I'll never understand fascination some people have with that OS.

Particularly when 7 was superior in every way, Windows peaked with it.

[Mæstro]

Childhood nostalgia for many (certainly for me) and the broader cultural interest in the noughts are part of it. Windows 7 itself is fine, but it enjoyed only a few years before the modern plagues of website and software interfacing began to spread in force. The XP era is much more nearly pure, especially within the time it dominated, in this respect.

[UCyborg]

Off-topic:
Just 2 years ago, there was discussion on merits of XP on VOGONS, the guy was concerned about usability long term, couldn't get used to anything beyond XP and doesn't like Linux. Not young by a long shot, must be in his 60s now. He'd run NT 4.0 if there was a usable web browser for it (and some other software).

I'm not sure how I am different that I don't look at it the same way, considering it was part of my childhood. Flaky computer that might have been effected by capacitor plague? Activation woes? Expecting too much from it when re-visiting it in late 2010s / early 2020s?

[Mæstro]

I think we replaced our Windows 2000 computer with XP sometime about 2005, although I do not quite remember when. I remember the family computer as reliable for contemporary games and anything I did online,* without lag until I infected it in 2009. I returned to XP in early 2012. Of course, it was still in support then, but because the computer I was using (an old business laptop we recovered) was itself from 2003, it suffered often from lag when trying newer games. Beyond this, I noticed nothing unusual. This was my last time using it as a primary OS, and my next return to it at all would be in 2019, in a virtual machine. As my other thread hints at, my computer ran rather hotter back then, which discouraged experimenting much with it; I remember trying out Encarta and little else. Another six-year hiatus followed until installing a VM into Linux for the first time last year, and I have been using it much more, with much less burden to my processor.

※I see discussion of different Windows versions and their respective merits as generally on-topic for this thread.
*These included a variety of Flash games on Newgrounds, Kongregate and other web portals of the day, Neopets and Club Penguin, as well as CD-ROM games like World of Goo and Sid Meier’s Civilization Ⅲ and IV, including their expansions.

[chrisriley+3000]

Do the 2026 Windows XP users report problems with malware on their boards? I think one could find a clear, empirical answer there.

Probably not as easy to find an answer there. People still running XP in 2026 are also most likely the kind of people who would not report problems with malware if they get it.

Do you find Windows 11 okay to use. It works great for us but my mom has trouble posting screenshots, and I tell her a quick method I use. Windows+Shift+S
It takes a while to get used to, the Start up button is in the middle also. With Windows 10, it was located at the lower left of the computer screen. We have Webroot too which we've used for our protection from viruses since 2011. Good reliable company for users afraid of viruses attcking their PC or computer.

[Mæstro]

Moonchild discusses his attitudes about Windows 11 use in this thread’s original post, and indeed, the title reveals his attitude, which has changed little in the intervening years. He has been happy to stay with Windows 10, as noted elsewhere. I have never used Windows 11, but everything I have read about it and heard from friends tells me that I would find it hostile.

Microsoft’s native antivirus is as robust as any of its paid competitors. Had I known about Security Essentials in my Windows 7 days, I would have used it instead of any of the paid antivirus. It appears always to have sufficed. Knowing I never really needed to pay for antivirus, even in the Windows days, means I can no longer rightfully claim Linux has saved me money, but this is more than compensated by knowing XP and 7 users could enjoy free, comprehensive security as long as those systems were supported.

[Moonchild]

Knowing I never really needed to pay for antivirus, even in the Windows days, means I can no longer rightfully claim Linux has saved me money, but this is more than compensated by knowing XP and 7 users could enjoy free, comprehensive security as long as those systems were supported.

For the record, Microsoft still sends antivirus updates to my Windows Server 2008 R2 system through Windows Update. And that has long since been out of support (since January 2020).

[Night Wing]

In the computer repair shop where I spend some time, there are people coming in and they are running Windows 10. They do not not want to use Windows 11 for various reason which I will not list.

To make this short, it is the start time for Tax season here in the USA. Those with enough tech savvy like to use the windows version of Turbo Tax or Quickbooks to do their taxes for the April deadline. And these two tax programs do not run on Linux.

But the newest versions of Turbo Tax and Quickbooks will not install on Windows 10. These two tax programs will only install and run on Windows 11. Users on Windows 10 must use online versions, upgrade their operating system, or use a newer machine.

People have told us they do not want to use online versions for privacy concerns (hackers). But since they do not want to go to Windows 11, they have two choices. Use the online version for Windows 10 or purchase a newer machine dual booting Linux and Windows 11. This way they can use Windows 11 for their tax programs and Linux as they everyday computer use.

The people who have come into our shop using the one of the three linux distros on our desktop tower are okay with that. But we tell them it is going to cost them "an arm, a leg, two fingers and three toes" cost wise and they will have to "learn" how to do things on a linux distro such as Mint if they go to a desktop tower computer.

So they tell us to give them the "bad news" cost wise. We tell them instead of buying an existing desktop which comes with Windows 11 already installed, to purchase a mid tower gaming desktop tower computer case which comes with four, 140 mm fans for cooling purposes. Then purchase a new motherboard, a relatively new processor with a processor speed of a minimum speed of 3.60, new heatsink, new middle of the road graphics card (if they are not avid gamers) and a new power supply.

Then add two, 2.5" SSD's with one running Linux Mint (MX Linux or Debian) and the other running Windows 11 and just use Windows 11 for the tax programs. We would go into the windows registry and change the time to local time so Mint and Windows 11 would both show the correct time and date their respective Panel and Taskbar. Finally, add in the cost of the external monitor and an external keyboard.

When we tell them the final cost, they tell us "that price is kind of tough to chew and swallow". We tell them if they want to stay on Windows 10 and not got to Windows 11, the online version is the best and least expensive option. They always tell us "they will think about it".

But we have had two tech savvy people who have went the "expensive route" and since they had been coming in to use a linux distro on the demo tower we use to get people comfortable with a linux distro, these people had been extensively experimenting with MX Linux. They went with MX with the Xfce desktop environment, instead of Mint with Xfce, and dual booting with Windows 11.

BTW, in the BIOS and in the Boot Menu, when the tower is first turned on and boots up, MX boots up first automatically. Both customers have come back to tell us they "like" the new arrangement between MX Linux and Windows 11. But they are both leery of Windows 11's updates breaking things.

[Moonchild]

Those with enough tech savvy like to use the windows version of Turbo Tax or Quickbooks to do their taxes for the April deadline. And these two tax programs do not run on Linux.

But the newest versions of Turbo Tax and Quickbooks will not install on Windows 10. These two tax programs will only install and run on Windows 11. Users on Windows 10 must use online versions, upgrade their operating system, or use a newer machine.

You're missing an option: stop using Turbo Tax or Quickbooks and use a different program instead (and let the software vendors know they are losing a customer)

[Night Wing]

You're missing an option: stop using Turbo Tax or Quickbooks and use a different program instead (and let the software vendors know they are losing a customer)

I do not use Turbo Tax or Quickbooks. It is those customers who are "married" to these two tax programs which do not run in Linux and will not go to an alternative tax program.

Off-topic:
As for an analogy.

These are the same type of people who are "married" to Microsoft Office which does not run in Linux. There is an alternative in Windows which is LibreOffice. But they will not choose LibreOffice in Windows or Linux versions. They are set in their ways.

[Lucio Chiappetti]

Off-topic:
Just for curiosity ... are those taxpayers private citizens (with a salary or pension) or employers with a firm ?
In this country (where tax season is May to September) private citizens use the online 730 form provided by Agenzia delle Entrate (a branch of the ministry of eonomy and finance), which requires just a browser, or if they can't go to a fiscal assistance office. If they have an enterprise either they have staff in charge of it or pay a consultant.

[Mæstro]

Just for curiosity ... are those taxpayers private citizens (with a salary or pension) or employers with a firm ?

They are private citizens. In the USA, where Turbotax thrives, citizens are expected to prepare their own taxes, but the US tax system is notoriously complex, hence the rash of software for laymen.