Windows 11 still sucks.

[back2themoon]

I've used Win 3.11, Win 95, Win 98, Win ME, Win 2000, Win XP, Win 8, Win 10...

Interesting how you skipped their best one, W7.

[Gemmaugr]

I've used Win 3.11, Win 95, Win 98, Win ME, Win 2000, Win XP, Win 8, Win 10...

Interesting how you skipped their best one, W7.

Several happenstances conspired for it to become so really. At the moment it released, it looked slightly worse than Win XP which I was using. I can't remember why after all this time, just that it seemed like it. I also didn't have an install disk for it, and I didn't have to purchase a new computer set with it already installed.

I still wish for the design principles of the Win XP era to come back. Function over form, power and freedom of choice and customization, and the touch of human sensibilities. People weren't infantilized or treated like ATM's.

[UCyborg]

Off-topic:
I didn't fancy XP as much, maybe at beginning, at least I still have a bunch literature on XP specifically that I don't have for newer OS. That the first XP computer was on the cheaper side (it sucked at handling games) and from the era of capacitor plague didn't help either. Newer one that I still use to this day (16,5 years of age) is much more reliable and while it has XP drivers, things just run better on NT 6.x+. Well, not everything, but I guess most things I care about.

I started experimenting with XP few years back occasionally, to see what can still be pulled off with it. Earlier this year, I realized ASUS didn't include the driver with the motherboard to have functional CPU power management that has to be installed separately on XP. The driver is called AMDPPM and I believe it's still used today on AMD platforms, it comes with the OS since Vista I think. Out-of-box, on XP, CPU always runs at max frequency and consequentially on higher voltage, so drains more power. But when that driver is used to regulate the frequency and voltage depending on demand, frequency switches cause massive lag spikes, you feel it in the interface, you hear it in audio. That made me think that even back in 2009, it was "longer in the tooth" than I realized.

Dave Cutler remarked in an interview few years back that it was hugely popular, but buggy (at the time). They split the codebase into 2 branches and regular mortals got the buggier one. Regardless, it still seems to have the following that you don't really see with other systems.

It's hard to imagine in a decade or two, that people will reminisce about Cortana, Copilot, Recall, telemetry etc. (Win10/11 stuff). Although it's a pattern, every new Windows version is hated at first.

[Moonchild]

Although it's a pattern, every new Windows version is hated at first.

You'll always have people resistant to change. That's just normal. But past that, there have been clear correlations between how well a Windows version was designed and executed, against how many people would actively use it.
Considering how long ago Windows 11 has been introduced now and how little long-term adoption there has been (and primarily because people weren't given a choice), I'd say it's not looking particularly good for Windows 11. And that's for many reasons.

[UCyborg]

Admittedly, I'm the same in some (maybe too many) ways.

[mr tribute]

Interesting and enlightening 1.5 hour long podcast highlighting a TON of problems with Win 11, many of which have kept me from moving to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3XLQMsQGGk

Just looking at the table of contents I don't see anything major that differs from Windows 10. It is still possible to use local accounts. With Winaero Tweaker you can get normal context menus. Default start menu was already bad in Windows 10. Windows Update has always been a problem. Privacy has always been a problem (since Windows 8, but especially since Windows 10).

Windows 11 is a great OS as long as you don't update it. I think that was true for Windows 10 as well. Stay on older versions whether Windows 11 or Windows 10. Don't use AI PCs or just uninstall Copilot, Edge and other things that might be problematic.

I'm not a dev so I don't know if there are changes under the hood that might impact usability.

CHAPTERS
00:00 - Intro
06:21 - Unnecessary Microsoft accounts
10:39 - Search is broken
15:49 - Splash screens and ads
20:52 - The right click context menu
26:53 - Pre-installed bloatware
33:21 - Windows updates hurting performance
38:41 - Telemetry capture and data mining
42:28 - Copilot AI integration
45:45 - Updates breaking things
48:14 - Inability to dismiss pop-ups and updates
50:25 - Janky monitor issues
58:21 - Removing useful customization options
1:01:06 - Driver updates via Windows Update breaking things
1:05:17 - Microsoft Store
1:09:21 - Is Linux an alternative for gaming PCs?
1:14:36 - Summary of the current state of Windows
1:17:44 - Updates from our boring lives

[RJARPCGP]

I had to reinstall Windows 95 on monthly basis back then. It was that bad.

Well, it was easier to mess things up with Windows 95. It also was much easier for buggy software to take down Windows 95. The slightest things can make Windows 95 crash.

Even Windows 11, as much as some people don't like Windows 11, the only problems I have, are Windows update issues, where the file checking tools find problems after a purportedly successful Windows update. (Component Based Servicing claims there's unexpected content in the component store, after a patch-Tuesday update, which has been an ongoing problem, since 24H2)

[f-117]

There are countless videos on the problems with Win11, but this one got my attention...

Scary stuff when you don't have control over your PC...

https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=C44iCr6czAo

I'm holding on to Win10 as long as my hardware lasts...

Scott

[Ron_S]

Btw, curious, but what will you do once windows 10 is completely deprecated?

I ask Moonchild this question specifically, but also anyone else using windows 10 LTSC as well.

Thoughts?

I started with Windows 3 something, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7, 8, 10.
For me the peak was XP and 7, I can't say which I preferred but both were solid.

I now use 10 LTSC and have since around 2019, originally 1809 and now 21H2.
It's as good as I can get it but still shit compared to XP/7.
The things which I feel are mandatory are Windows update blocker, Shutup 10, and Classic Shell.

I did try to setup 11 very briefly on a new laptop earlier this year, but gave up when it insisted on www connection (is when I started with 10 LTSC 21H2).
I also used it very briefly on wifeys work laptop. It seems more shit than 10 and I won't ever us it.

I've tried dozens of Linux distros over the years and desperately want to migrate over but I always struggle with some things.
I will do it eventually, no doubt, but I'll need help with some things as I'm getting to old and dumb to work this stuff out as easily I once did.
I have liked using Linux when testing but there's always something that blows it for me.

[frostknight]

I've tried dozens of Linux distros over the years and desperately want to migrate over but I always struggle with some things.
I will do it eventually, no doubt, but I'll need help with some things as I'm getting to old and dumb to work this stuff out as easily I once did.
I have liked using Linux when testing but there's always something that blows it for me.

It would be awesome if even 5% of windows share dropped because of the crap that is windows 11. (Switching to linux I meant.) This being said, I am not holding my breath. People are willing to put up with a lot of crap due to their desire for convenience... and that everything just works. I mean applications working by this of course. Other things windows does very buggy no matter which one it is.

This being said, I am sure windows 11 has done damage to Microsoft's reputation already, Way more than any other before it.

[moonbat]

I am sure windows 11 has done damage to Microsoft's reputation already

They don't have to care. Windows long ago ceased to be their main revenue source, that position now belongs to Azure, followed by Office 365. They will always have their corporate/enterprise customers. And eventually they will move Windows to a subscription model and users will obediently move to it. Nobody really gives a damn about Linux if it takes greater than zero effort to run what applications they're already used to.
You can keep talking about Wine and Proton, or telemetry and Microsoft spying, but Linux will never gain hold with the general tech illiterate public who don't have someone to handhold them and act as free tech support when inevitably things don't work.

[frostknight]

They don't have to care. Windows long ago ceased to be their main revenue source, that position now belongs to Azure, followed by Office 365. They will always have their corporate/enterprise customers. And eventually they will move Windows to a subscription model and users will obediently move to it. Nobody really gives a damn about Linux if it takes greater than zero effort to run what applications they're already used to.

True, I am aware of this.

You can keep talking about Wine and Proton, or telemetry and Microsoft spying, but Linux will never gain hold with the general tech illiterate public who don't have someone to handhold them and act as free tech support when inevitably things don't work.

Well yeah, you are correct for the most part. I would estimate windows market share to linux market share will change by at most 2%. Meaning 2% will go to linux/stay.

I don't think it will be more than that though unless microsoft does something far more unspeakable.

Technical illiteracy is a huge problem alas.

[moonbat]

Technical illiteracy is a huge problem alas.

It's a problem because software developers have decided to solely cater to this demographic, hence the dumbing down of all software ever since smartphones appeared. Otherwise it's what happens with any mature technology. Take cars. 50 years ago the average car owner had to know about refilling the radiator, checking engine oil and brake fluid levels, cleaning the carburettor etc, and the car manuals had instructions based on the assumption that the owner would do all this.
Cars today are far more reliable and don't require this kind of maintenance, all you do is take it for servicing at the recommended intervals. In the rare event of your car breaking down somewhere there's little you can do to fix it yourself since all the control systems long ago went electronic. So today the only people outside of car mechanics who know the intimate details of their vehicle, engine tuning etc are enthusiasts.

[frostknight]

It's a problem because software developers have decided to solely cater to this demographic, hence the dumbing down of all software ever since smartphones appeared. Otherwise it's what happens with any mature technology. Take cars. 50 years ago the average car owner had to know about refilling the radiator, checking engine oil and brake fluid levels, cleaning the carburettor etc, and the car manuals had instructions based on the assumption that the owner would do all this.

And people wonder why fascism is on the rise... people are just getting too accustomed to not having to do a lot of thinking...

Critical thinking is dying for so many reasons, of course, but the main reason I think is because people keep getting technology that is dumbed down in how to use it.

The easier things get for people, the dumber they will get.

This is a reality of humanity.

Bugs the hell out of me that crap like windows is still popular. Or android, or mac osx, basically just proprietary software in general. Which btw, when I say that, I don't mean all non-free software, just the crap that has built-in malware inside of it.

Surveillance being one of those things. They tend to make it flashy but hide a lot of black box stuff underneath. The flashier it is, the more they think they can get away with it.

They aren't entirely wrong though.... that is the main problem.

[UCyborg]

Linux is for programmers IMHO.

[Night Wing]

Linux is not that hard to learn if a Windows user wants to learn a linux distro and picks a user friendly disto like Mint in Xfce where one does not have to use the Terminal that much if at all. And I am the example. I used Mint for three years and finally had to use the Terminal to solve a minor problem. So for three years, I never used the Terminal.

I have had to learn a few more commands in using Debian linux, but I wanted to learn Debian since it does not get as many updates like Mint since Mint gets more updates Debian. And MX Linux gets many more updates than Mint does.

In my opinion, the worst thing about Windows 11 is the program, "Recall", since it takes a snapshot of what you are doing on your computer every 5 seconds. I'm guessing it also sends this "data" to one of Microsoft's many servers.

I do not use Windows 11, but one person who come into our shop and complained he un-installed Recall on his W11 computer and on the very next MS update, Recall was re-installed and turned on by default. He wanted Recall "permanentaly" un-installed.

The owner of the shop said as far as he knows, that cannot be done. The owner told him to just disable Recall and everytime MS sends an update, check to see if Recall is turned back on again. If so,then turn it off again.

The guy didn't like that answer and asked if there was another "way" to get rid of Recall. Our owner told him to go to another operating system like Apple or try a linux distro.

In my opinion, I think Recall is nothing more than "nefarious legalized spyware" if you agree with MS's terms of service to use Windows 11. But this always bothered me about Recall. If one is doing any financial data (banking, stocks, etc), I heard Recall does not do a snapshot of this type of data. But, would you really want to trust MS not to use Recall to "send" this data to one of MS' servers? I know I would not take MS's word on this.

[Mæstro]

And eventually they will move Windows to a subscription model and users will obediently move to it.

In fact, Windows 365 has existed for about as long as Windows 11. It goes beyond simply making Windows a subscription, but runs (virtual) Windows on a mainframe for which users are expected to use other, existing computers as terminals. For now, it has been reserved for business use at NZ$1–2 a day. If not for the same facts which killed Stadia, I could easily conceive Microsoft designing ‘Edgebooks’ meant as Windows 365 terminals to displace traditional PC altogether.

[frostknight]

, I could easily conceive Microsoft designing ‘Edgebooks’ meant as Windows 365 terminals to displace traditional PC altogether.

Do you mean like the hardware is mostly physically on a server and you only have access to the monitor in front of you and the keyboard/mouse? sounds very dystopian to me if so.

Basically having a cloud operating system more or less...

I think that would be the point half of any operating system user-market share would take an effing nose dive and politicians would be pressure to make that illegal for months and years till they did it.

[UCyborg]

It's not as much about learning Linux rather than Linux way of doing things being alien to me and things you take for granted on Windows not working or not working as expected. I've been following Linux for half my life now and it just doesn't click with me. It's not for everyone.

Exception being some very specific tasks, but those are not every day things and I'm fine with dual booting for those.

[Moonchild]

I could easily conceive Microsoft designing ‘Edgebooks’ meant as Windows 365 terminals to displace traditional PC altogether.

Ah but here's the rub with that: The current setup is actually exactly what big corporations want: by distributing compute to end user systems, on hardware paid for by the end user, run on power paid for by the end user, using internet connectivity paid for by the end user, the savings compared to running scalable mainframes with dumb terminals is absolutely massive.
Microsoft doesn't want to invest in a ton of DC compute hardware when they can rope end users into doing it for them.
Google understood this too, which is why Chrome became what Chrome is: increasingly an application platform instead of a browser.