Windows 11 still sucks.

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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by back2themoon » 2025-10-22, 09:04

Night Wing wrote:
2025-10-19, 12:29
For all their ranting, hollering, screaming, stamping of their feet about Windows 11; these people will comply and use Windows 11.
There is truth to this, but the Windows 11 quality/reliability drop is greater than ever before. They've just released yet another emergency update to fix boot issues FFS. (how you'd install an update on a non-bootable machine is another story)

The hassle of learning and migrating to Linux and have it up and running, does not look all that threatening any more. Microsoft does not care either way. Personally, I will NOT move to W11 even with compliant hardware. I am willing to give "Windows 12" a chance, but not expecting any improvements to be honest. More AI/Cloud BS and less reliability is my wild guess.

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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Night Wing » 2025-10-22, 14:16

@ back2themoon

Most people in one large camp say with so many linux distros, that is linuxs' weak suit. But I am in the opposite camp. For me, I say that is linuxs' strong suit. Why? If one liked a specific linux distro which they were using and it takes a "drastic" change in development, one can always sniff around and find another linux distro that is their cup of tea.

And one can find many linux distros on the right side of the DistroWatch page at the link below. There are one hundred of them listed. And one can learn about them by watching YouTube videos. This is how I learned about every linux distro I took for a "test drive".

https://distrowatch.com/

This is where my journey to the world of Linux began back in October of 2012 when Microsoft released Windows 8 which I simply "hated" with a pink purple passion.

Point 1.

I started with Mint 13 back in January of 2013. I have used every version and point release of Mint up to and including version (22.1). This covers a time period, for me, of twelve and half years. But things changed in Mint (22.1). First, the Synaptic Packager Manager (SPM) was always installed by default since Mint 13. But in Mint 22.1, it was no longer installed by default. The SPM was relegated to the Repository.

Second, it was pointed out to me by a person with more linux knowledge than I have, it was no longer maintained and the Mint developers had to modify the SPM to make it work properly in Mint (22.1). Took a lot of work for them. Fair enough.

Third, I was told by this same person that the SPM was really no longer "safe" to use in Mint. That point just did not sit well with my "gut feeling" so I asked this person if the SPM was no longer safe to use, then why was it in the Repository where one could download, install it and then use it? I never got an answer back by that person on my question.

Point 2.

In version 22.1, the Grub Menu (GM) was also "intentionally hidden". If a computer has only one hard drive in it, the GM is really not needed. Like in laptops. But in a desktop tower computer, these computers can have many hard drives in them. I have two desktop towers and they both have, at this time, two hard drives in each of them. BTW, my mid tower Montech Air 903 Max tower, can have seven 2.5" SSD's in it if needed/wanted.

In the backup desktop tower, if I want to boot into the non-default drive, when the computer is turned on in the morning, if I do not hit my F9 key fast enough; for the Boot Menu, within one second of time, the tower will boot to the default drive. The GM lists both drives so I do not have to reboot out of the default drive if I am "slow on the draw" when tapping my F9 key.

So I had to ask if I could get the GM back again. I was told there was a line of code with one word in it; "hidden", and change the word to "menu", then save it, reboot the computer and the GM would reappear. One "word" was changed and it caused a problem with desktop tower computers with more than one hard drive in it. In my opinion, that "word" change should never had happened. The first two points were "annoyances".

Point 3.

This is the point which caused me to "kick Mint to the curb". There was an update which caused the AMD graphics card I was using and this update caused my two Mint SSD's to not boot up.

In essence, this update was not checked by "whomever" either upstream by Ubuntu or downstream by Mint. My mistake was not immediately booting back into the first SSD to see if the computer would actually boot up again without any problems. And the problem took five days to fix.

So I made a post in the Mint forums about the above and a moderator did not like it. The moderator called it a "rant". So instead of arguing with the moderator, since Mint pulled a page out of Microsoft's playbook with a major mistake causing a computer with an AMD graphics card not to boot, I decided to kick Mint to the curb.

On one of the now unbootable Mint drives, I took that drive and it now resides in the top drawer in a night stand table by my bed. The second drive was formatted and I installed linux Debian 12.11 (Bookworm) on it. That same drive is now running Debian 13.1 (Trixie).

But the story does not end there. Since I still am a member of the Mint forums, I saw another second update by Mint caused people with AMD graphics cards headaches again.

In closing, with so many linux distros to choose from, one can "easily" find another different distro to their liking. But in Windows, if one does not have a Windows 11 Enterprise computer with a business license and this license costs quite a bit of money, just a regular home Windows 11 computer and one does not like Windows 11, one choice is to go back to Windows 10 and pay Microsoft some money for updates since Windows 10 has reached end of life so to speak.

The second choice is to keep using Windows 11. The third choice is to go to using an Apple computer and Apple computers are expensive money wise to buy. Fourth choice, try a linux live version distro.

Just keep in mind I am not a power user in linux distros. Just a non-technical user and if I can use a linux distro without any problems, anyone can use a linux distro.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-10-22, 20:56

back2themoon wrote:
2025-10-22, 09:04
The hassle of learning and migrating to Linux and have it up and running, does not look all that threatening any more. Microsoft does not care either way. Personally, I will NOT move to W11 even with compliant hardware. I
Agree with all of this. The only way people will have a problem with linux is if they install non-beginner distros before they are ready.

Otherwise, they should be fine.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Mæstro » 2025-10-22, 22:07

frostknight wrote:
2025-10-22, 20:56
The only way people will have a problem with linux is if they install non-beginner distros before they are ready. Otherwise, they should be fine.
An important caveat is due here: hardware compatibility. I once installed Mint onto a family member’s computer which had shipped with Windows 10. Everything worked as it should have, with one vital exception: the wireless card was incompatible, so the computer could only be used offline at that house. Nobody knew this would, or suspected it could, happen until it did. I tried next finding a USB wireless adapter which could serve, but this also failed when installation proved impossible, for certain critical dependencies needed updating for it to work, but the updated versions could only be found in repositories online! This was frustrating enough to the intended, lay user that she called in my cousin to return Windows 10 to that computer.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-10-22, 22:20

Off-topic:
frostknight wrote:
2025-10-22, 20:56
The only way people will have a problem with linux is if they install non-beginner distros before they are ready.
I don't think that's accurate. I've seen people honestly try beginner-friendly Linux distros that had plenty of bake time before they were tried, and while it may not be instant, all of them ran aground sooner or later with it; usually at the point where they ran into unsolvable compatibility issues with either hardware or applications. Printers and scanners were a BIG issue, as well as digital cameras, on the hardware front. On the application front, they ran into issues where installing additional software beyond that was in the out-of-the-box installation. Oh and no small number of networking issues requiring manual configuration "the Linux way", i.e. without any GUI to help them.
So it's certainly not "the only way". There are many ways people can and will have a problem with Linux.

Anyway, I'm sure we can talk about Linux all day but that really isn't what this thread was supposed to be about.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-10-22, 22:27

Off-topic:
Moonchild wrote:
2025-10-22, 22:20
I don't think that's accurate. I've seen people honestly try beginner-friendly Linux distros that had plenty of bake time before they were tried, and while it may not be instant, all of them ran aground sooner or later with it; usually at the point where they ran into unsolvable compatibility issues with either hardware or applications. Printers and scanners were a BIG issue, as well as digital cameras, on the hardware front. On the application front, they ran into issues where installing additional software beyond that was in the out-of-the-box installation. Oh and no small number of networking issues requiring manual configuration "the Linux way", i.e. without any GUI to help them.
Hmmm... I don't use many printers and the one I use doesn't require blobs and is a laser printer, so you could be quite right.

I am not aware of network issues being a major problem unless the wifi card itself sucks. I had that happen once with a 2010 hp laptop. ;)

As for hardware and applications, I am not sure which you mean.

If you need windows programs, though, it is definitely an issue.

So I will take back part of what I said.

But if you use rolling release or bleeding edge rolling release distros, you are signing up for lots of pain as a newbie.

:crazy:
Btw, should I have this all in off topic layer around it?

Moderator note: Yes it should have. Taking hints from previous posts.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-10-23, 16:43

Btw, curious, but what will you do once windows 10 is completely deprecated?

I ask Moonchild this question specifically, but also anyone else using windows 10 LTSC as well.

Thoughts?
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Octopuss » 2025-10-23, 18:37

Personally, I will switch to 11 in the coming weeks. There is no alternative to someone who has been using Windows for 30 years anyway and also plays games anyway. No, Linux is not an alternative when you have no idea how it works, and the moment something somewhere breaks you are completely screwed because it takes very deep understanding of how the bloody thing works to troubleshoot anything.

I'll just swallow all the curses over the garbage they crammed in this time (and they really managed to outdo themselves with all the AI shit), refine the unattended installation I have just mostly finished carrying over from 10, look for even more apps that let me disable or remove even more junk from a freshly installed system, and just keep using it.

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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by UCyborg » 2025-10-23, 21:37

I'm daily driving Win11 23H2 install at home that was just supposed to be test bed for old new sound card, but don't feel like swapping things around. It's already EOLed! Still on Win10 1809 at work because who has time for upgrading Windows? And I'd lose the nice Windows 7 theme. Native *.msstyles. Putting these together is so mundane and boring, so much clicking.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-10-24, 13:15

Interesting and enlightening 1.5 hour long podcast highlighting a TON of problems with Win 11, many of which have kept me from moving to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3XLQMsQGGk
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by UCyborg » 2025-10-24, 16:39

Wouldn't life be simpler with Windows 95?
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-10-24, 17:08

UCyborg wrote:
2025-10-24, 16:39
Wouldn't life be simpler with Windows 95?
Absolutely not. I know it's been a long time since it was a thing, but moving to Windows NT kernels was absolutely necessary for stability and security. I ended up using Windows 2000 for a decent portion in that era. Windows 95 (OSR2) and 98 (R1) were OK for what they were, but certainly had their large share of issues in comparison to what came after.
Personally, I think windows peaked with Windows 7. Life would be simpler if 8 never happened and instead Microsoft would have incrementally improved Windows 7. But that's not the world we live in.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by UCyborg » 2025-10-24, 17:56

Meh, Windows 7's DWM kept shutting down and complaining about something, either when you ran VRAM intensive game or you launched something "legacy", its window animations were laggy/jerky, classic theme was buggy, you didn't see the entire icon being dragged around on desktop, CMD was buggy, if you used Slovenian and possibly some other locales, 8x12 raster fonts would just disappear for every subsequent logged on user session. Who knows what else.

Not directly related, but I also remember last officially supported version of Compatibility Administrator for Windows 7 has a bug with disabling entries for 32-bit programs in compatibility database on 64-bit systems, it writes the flag to the wrong part of the registry.

Oh, and my favorite, GameUX! It made specific games hang on start. This one might have come with EOS, I don't remember exactly, just reading about problems people had on the other forum and I helped them by providing huge registry fix to disable GameUX for every game (as it was loaded through their application compatibility infrastructure).

I also find that pre-10 systems, particularly NT 6.x, swap too much. All that crazy HDD activity after shutting down VMware virtual machine and closing its interface was gone by simply going from NT 6.x to NT 10.0. Though it worsened other aspects when using HDDs, OS itself is a bit cumbersome on HDD.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by frostknight » 2025-10-24, 23:04

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2025-10-23, 18:37
Personally, I will switch to 11 in the coming weeks. There is no alternative to someone who has been using Windows for 30 years anyway and also plays games anyway. No, Linux is not an alternative when you have no idea how it works, and the moment something somewhere breaks you are completely screwed because it takes very deep understanding of how the bloody thing works to troubleshoot anything.
Depends, if you are using anti cheat computer games, then linux absolutely will not work for you.

Meaning they require kernel level anti-cheat

If its something like starcraft 2, I currently can get that working on my devuan computer with mostly ease via wine-staging.

However, it really just depends which games you are playing whether they will work in linux.

Having two different drives on your computer is the best way to have a dual boot btw if you ever wanted to consider it.

Windows don't play nice with linux sometimes lol.

Anywho, just some thoughts.

Btw, as a final note, I hope windows 11 doesn't screw you over in some way. Either by breakage, or theft via their copilot crap.

I myself am a writer so its deeply unacceptable what microsoft is doing with their AI. They very well would probably use my data from my writing to feed their AI. This is completely stupid and is what many corporations would call piracy if it were done to them.

The irony is so thick. Anywho, be careful and don't use your comp for mapping out ideas unless you think you won't get burned. Just a fair warning.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by UCyborg » 2025-10-25, 08:09

TL;DR - PC is dead. So when's mobile version of Pale Moon coming up?
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Octopuss » 2025-10-25, 11:28

Moonchild wrote:
2025-10-24, 17:08
UCyborg wrote:
2025-10-24, 16:39
Wouldn't life be simpler with Windows 95?
Absolutely not. I know it's been a long time since it was a thing, but moving to Windows NT kernels was absolutely necessary for stability and security. I ended up using Windows 2000 for a decent portion in that era. Windows 95 (OSR2) and 98 (R1) were OK for what they were, but certainly had their large share of issues in comparison to what came after.
Personally, I think windows peaked with Windows 7. Life would be simpler if 8 never happened and instead Microsoft would have incrementally improved Windows 7. But that's not the world we live in.
LOL you bring back funny memories.
I had to reinstall Windows 95 on monthly basis back then. It was that bad.

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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Night Wing » 2025-10-25, 15:30

Below is an interesting video about the last 30 years of Microsoft and Windows. The woman in the video liked Windows XP, but when I was using Windows, Windows 7 was the best Windows I ever used. Of course, I only used three versions and those were Windows 98 SE, Windows XP and the venerable Windows 7.

The video is a little over nine minutes in length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ65kBnZl6k
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by UCyborg » 2025-10-25, 16:08

My remark was more like a nod towards simplicity. I probably wouldn't like it general, but back then, I was just a kid and all that mattered were NBA Live '97 and few didactic games.

I don't know, I guess I've grown to despise IT in general. It has to do with everything from my job to being restricted for using a rooted Android smartphone.

I doubt Windows 11 sucking so bad will make developers make better, more compatible applications.
Off-topic:
On somewhat unrelated note, someone mentioned printers. Why are printers still a thing? So much for digitalization.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Moonchild » 2025-10-25, 16:50

Off-topic:
UCyborg wrote:
2025-10-25, 16:08
On somewhat unrelated note, someone mentioned printers. Why are printers still a thing? So much for digitalization.
They are still a thing because in a lot of cases, having a hardcopy of information that doesn't rely on anything else (other than enough light to read/see it) is essential. The same reason cash is still a thing. The same reason contracts and legal filings are on paper. Even digital archiving isn't guaranteed to survive more than 3 decades or so before there's enough decay to need fresh media and multiple backups because bit flips and magnetic/electronic degradation happens.
Digitization is fine for things that are transient in nature. But for things that are permanent, definitely not so much.
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Re: Windows 11 still sucks.

Post by Gemmaugr » 2025-10-25, 20:01

I've used Win 3.11, Win 95, Win 98, Win ME, Win 2000, Win XP, Win 8, Win 10, and Ubuntu. Win XP wins hands down, and I used it blissfully from 2001 to 2016.

Until my OS HDD/SSD breaks down, I'll be using Win 10 for now, going forward. Then either wait until a good release again, or trying a Linux distro like Linux Mint Cinnamon.
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