We have plenty of these here

Sob__ · Unread post by **Sob__** » 2023-03-08, 21:51

Pinned tabs take space permanently, so less is left for other tabs. It's true that with too many of them it's not possible to see all anyway, but that's more reason to not lose any space. Even if in fact it's nothing tragic, because we have this wonderful thing:

tab-thumbnails.png

You can't beat it for navigating between lots of tabs. This is the size when there are 96 tabs in fullscreen window on fullhd resulution, everything is perfectly fine for given purpose, recognizable enough. Still, tab bar is useful for smaller group of tabs I'm actively working with right now, because it takes only single click to switch between them. So it's better to rather not lose space in there.

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-08, 22:10

I have considered some more ideas, like moving all my bookmark bar’s contents into the drop-down bookmark menu (where it had been at first and half of it still lingers in duplicate) and keeping the bookmark bar for the queue as described, but this would leave the awkward question of what to do should the queue empty to avoid leaving a big, blank space. (This happens sometimes, and I feel proud of myself whenever I am down at last to one tab.) I cannot add bookmarks to my status bar. I seem to recall an extension that would allow for two or more rows of tabs. Perhaps something like that would serve my needs. Can anyone recall the name?

Moonchild wrote: ↑
2023-03-08, 09:42
I'd say "queueing to visit later" is a good use case for bookmarks. It's literally what bookmarks are traditionally used for in books.

Most of my surviving, unsorted bookmarks are sites that I would like to keep available for easy, repeated (but infrequent: the median is thrice in the last year) access, and would be hard to find again with a search engine. Often, I remember coming to them by a chain of links, and could retrace my steps without the bookmark if I were willing to risk a link rotting. Some of these sites, like this Icelandic guide to weather symbols, are just there because they are pretty and still live, making my bookmarks folder halfway an art gallery.

Blacklab · Unread post by **Blacklab** » 2023-03-09, 01:39

Mæstro wrote:I seem to recall an extension that would allow for two or more rows of tabs. Perhaps something like that would serve my needs. Can anyone recall the name?

Seems there were several ways to achieve multi-row tabs using extensions, perhaps the best known being TabMixPlus, or just using CSS userstyles. I had saved one of the multi-row tab CSS userstyles years ago, but I've just re-tested it and I'm not convinced it is working correctly any longer.

I'll test it again tomorrow.

There's quite a lot of discussion on the various Multi-Row Tab options to be found in old Mozillazine & SUMO threads, etc... and the amazingly useful WayBackMachine will mostly resuscitate any dead links to the old Mozilla Addons (AMO) site

... and there's the Classic Add-ons Archive too.

A few links to investigate for starters:

How can I show multiple tab rows? - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1093283

Firefox multi row tab bar? - https://superuser.com/questions/42392/f ... ow-tab-bar

Problem reducing Tab Height with multiple rows - http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=2857973

How to have multiple rows of tabs in Firefox - https://dottech.org/159302/how-to-add-m ... refox-tip/

PS. This CSS userstyle for Multi-Row Tabs works... but I don't particularly like the way it looks! From Mozillazine topic 'Multiple row tabs' bottom post by 'alterna', lower code panel: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... 8&t=910755#

andyprough · Unread post by **andyprough** » 2023-03-09, 04:51

Mæstro wrote: ↑
2023-03-08, 22:10
I seem to recall an extension that would allow for two or more rows of tabs. Perhaps something like that would serve my needs. Can anyone recall the name?

Tab Kit 2 will do that, or it will do tree-style tabbing in the sidebar: https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/tabkit2/

Blacklab · Unread post by **Blacklab** » 2023-03-09, 12:55

Had that strange Yogi Berra "it's déjà vu all over again" feeling whilst writing reply to Mæstro's query (above) about wishing to find "an extension that would allow for two or more rows of tabs"...

Sure enough, after doing a forum search this morning... there was a 'Reduce height of tabs and tab icons' topic back in Aug 2021 where the OP VLMin was having problems with "using Tab Mix Plus with multirow icons, which I need (or at least have grown dependent upon)."

See: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27297&p=219598

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-09, 16:09

Alas, I already use my sidebar all the time to show my browser history.

Moreover, it seems that Tab Mix Plus can support a second tab row instead of shrinking tab width, such that excess tabs overflow therein, but it does not seem to support (or more likely, I am overlooking) how to have it keep two separate tab groups, each in its own row. Also, for some reason, it makes the tabs opaque with my browser persona when they were not before, and makes their title texts red.

However, this has reminded me of the incompatible extension Tab Groups. I recall trying it once before for queueing and finding that, like the bookmark folder, tabs there would be left to rot. Perhaps I have run aground on my own contradictory needs: something hidden enough that it does not crowd my interface, but not so hidden that I forget its existence altogether. But what is science if I do not try the experiment again? I will put my current queue into Tab Groups again, and set up another group for academic thingies, and see how I fare. Wish me luck!

jangdonggun1234 · Unread post by **jangdonggun1234** » 2023-03-10, 04:16

I personally just use userChrome.css to reduce tab size:

Then about:config and change ui.tooltipDelay to 60, that way it's quicker to check tab name and navigate between tabs.
But I mostly use % to search between all tabs, and I also disabled History completely because with Faviconized Tabs, I don't need history feature anymore as I open more and more tabs.

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-10, 05:12

I like having the tabs at their maximum width all the time without needing scroll, but I approach your problem the other way: I need no ‘geologic record’ with samples of my browsing history when my sidebar already gathers it in full. I have never struggled navigating my open tabs even when I have scores of them. When I was a child in the 00s, I had no problems with only a few windows open at a time, and even lately, I can go like that for days if I have nothing to queue. Perhaps I see my youth’s habit (really the typical habit: I recall a 2010 Mozilla survey finding Firefox users kept 2–6 tabs normally) as an ideal still. When I had begun to compose this post, I had even written at first ‘having very many tabs bothers me in itself’. On reflecting, I think it is not intrinsic to having so many, but agrees with many preferences which are deeper set.

jangdonggun1234 · Unread post by **jangdonggun1234** » 2023-03-10, 07:44

Mæstro wrote: ↑
2023-03-10, 05:12
I like having the tabs at their maximum width all the time without needing scroll, but I approach your problem the other way: I need no ‘geologic record’ with samples of my browsing history when my sidebar already gathers it in full. I have never struggled navigating my open tabs even when I have scores of them. When I was a child in the 00s, I had no problems with only a few windows open at a time, and even lately, I can go like that for days if I have nothing to queue. Perhaps I see my youth’s habit (really the typical habit: I recall a 2010 Mozilla survey finding Firefox users kept 2–6 tabs normally) as an ideal still. When I had begun to compose this post, I had even written at first ‘having very many tabs bothers me in itself’. On reflecting, I think it is not intrinsic to having so many, but agrees with many preferences which are deeper set.

About the habit of internet users, yes, most people especially Chrome users only open 1-2 tabs at best, then close their browser and comeback later, but that's not the case for devs, or data researcher who need to keeps thousands of tabs open to research and collect data for trainning AI, which is my case.

For example I need to collect images for trainning LORA or Stable Diffusion, then I need to open hundreds of tabs with picture data, and then many tabs with example code, then keep coding and keep opening even more.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2023-03-10, 08:24

jangdonggun1234 wrote: ↑
2023-03-10, 07:44
For example I need to collect images for trainning LORA or Stable Diffusion, then I need to open hundreds of tabs with picture data, and then many tabs with example code, then keep coding and keep opening even more.

Nice to know Pale Moon is useful for you even in that extreme workflow.

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-10, 15:03

jangdonggun1234 wrote: ↑
2023-03-10, 07:44
About the habit of internet users, yes, most people especially Chrome users only open 1-2 tabs at best, then close their browser and comeback later, but that's not the case for devs, or data researcher who need to keeps thousands of tabs open to research and collect data for trainning AI, which is my case.

As a small child, I would never use more than two windows. Five, the most I had had in the 00s, had struck me then as too many. The median for Firefox users in 2010 was 2·9. What has become of me(?)

Queued tabs, for me, are often

artwork or pages I want to share and discuss with a friend who is not yet online,
clips on Invidious I plan soon to watch (I only watch at night to avoid disruptions from housemates, but this time is more often spent chatting on the things I have found before),
pretty sites or pictures I stumble upon or
members of a string of pages sharing a topic for my personal research which I read in series.

Beside these are discarded tabs on a subject I still find mildly interesting. For example, I often look up random words I use or see in Farlex, and might forget to close the tab when done. Sometimes, I have tried to enforce austere habits by disabling tabs and opening everything in new windows, or setting Pale Moon to open with my home page and not past tabs, but these approaches come with their own headaches.

‘Gallery’ is not quite in the browser’s job description, but it seems such is my fate.

jangdonggun1234 · Unread post by **jangdonggun1234** » 2023-03-11, 11:18

Mæstro wrote: ↑
2023-03-10, 15:03

clips on Invidious I plan soon to watch (I only watch at night to avoid disruptions from housemates, but this time is more often spent chatting on the things I have found before)

For a (better or decent) Youtube's browsing habit , I suggest using MPV and this addon (https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/openwithieedge/) this script (https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/416271-play-with-mpv) to open send Youtube videos to MPV, MPV is the best perfomant video player atm and it's insanely good at watching Youtube/video sharing websites...

This is my example with video: https://gfycat.com/BoringAmusingHoneybadger

Beautiful, isn't it ?

This is how I solved the web compatibility of Pale Moon back then, right if Youtube is slow => send to MPV, if Nicovideo is unplayable => send to MPV...
I believe most web compatibility problems in Pale Moon can be solved by using 3rd party softwares like MPV, it's great why not try to get the most out of it ?

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-11, 16:11

"Open With Edge, IE, Chrome, and More" is an extension designed for use only in Windows.

Hearing that MPV apparently exists for Windows also is curious, but I use VLC, to say nothing of my signature.

In early 2021, I had experimented with Youtube-DL for some weeks. I dislike it for two reasons: the ‘date modified’ will always be the date the clip was uploaded to YouTube, not when I had downloaded it, and it would mean going into the terminal whenever I want to see something a friend has sent.
Now, if a friend sends a YouTube clip, I will most likely read some of the comments on Invidious and skip downloading or actually watching it. I have come to call YouTube clips ‘Invidious threads’.

jangdonggun1234 · Unread post by **jangdonggun1234** » 2023-03-11, 17:06

Mæstro wrote: ↑
2023-03-11, 16:11

"Open With Edge, IE, Chrome, and More" is an extension designed for use only in Windows.
Hearing that MPV apparently exists for Windows also is curious, but I use VLC, to say nothing of my signature.

In early 2021, I had experimented with Youtube-DL for some weeks. I dislike it for two reasons: the ‘date modified’ will always be the date the clip was uploaded to YouTube, not when I had downloaded it, and it would mean going into the terminal whenever I want to see something a friend has sent.
Now, if a friend sends a YouTube clip, I will most likely read some of the comments on Invidious and skip downloading or actually watching it. I have come to call YouTube clips ‘Invidious threads’.

It's possible to send Pale Moon cookies to yt-dlp using --cookie-from-browser=firefox:PATH_TO_PALEMOON_PROFILE, that way you can watch your friend video or Youtube Recommendation Playlist for you only.

In the video above, I showcased that my MPV can mark Youtube videos as watched, that means my MPV is fully connected to my web browser.

I've been using MPV that way, it's very pleasant because I just need to open a channel of someone I want to watch everyday, and then MPV will silently update new videos for me to watch daily without having to go to Youtube to check new videos of that channel, and that saves my time. And it's also Youtube's fault to force me to have such behavior, their website is slow as a turtle and consumes a lot of RAM/CPU, it's very painful to use non-Chrome browsers to surf Youtube/

Mæstro · Unread post by **Mæstro** » 2023-03-11, 18:07

I neither have nor want a YouTube account. Hence, related videos in Invidious relate to the selected reel’s contents, not my own history, and all is as I think it ought to be. The only channel which I could name at all as an interest is Historia Civilis, which uploads so seldom that checking whenever I think of it from time to time is enough. While I could subscribe to him, as to artists and web comics I like and ‘quarries’ with RSS, I see no reason to bother. Checking myself gives me something to do when bored, and there are some anime sites which do not offer RSS, but have a new image whenever I load them.

※Quarries, in my sense, are sites, usually with aggregated content, where 90% of posts or more are boring to me, but which will, after enough time gather enough content that I can spend hours sorting through the last thousand posts and saving anything that appeals. Reddit’s map room is an example.

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