Microsoft's Windows 10 ban could prove costly for millions of PC owners from tomorrow

[Basilisk-Dev]

When I looked at Krita from the link you provide, it seems to me Krita is a digital paint application program and Gimp is more aligned with a digital image manipulation program. If I'm halfway correct, then this is why I think Krita is not installed in linux out of the box.

You can create images with GIMP, and you can edit existing images with Krita. Neither one is exclusively suited for one task.

[badnick]

I stopped my Windows 10 updates from a couple years and no problems ...

[Tharthan]

Linux Desktop is just not suited for quite a large portion of Windows users.

As you might recall from previous discussions, Moonchild, we are very much in agreement about the many failings of GNU/Linux in its efforts to function as a practical desktop operating system.

However, for me at least, over time I acknowledged two things:

A. GNU/Linux is in no way the ideal for me.

and

B. Windows 10 and Windows 11 are unacceptable for me.

I take no joy in abandoning Microsoft Windows. I absolutely loved Windows up through Windows 7. Windows has been the ideal environment for me, and still is.

But it is not reasonable to remain on an OS that is no longer supported security-wise. Moreover, it is not going to be possible to purchase a Windows 7 computer in the future.

Therefore, I found myself metaphorically on board a sinking ship.

There were three vessels nearby that I could try to get the attention of.

One was a ship with a dangerous pirate at the helm. The ship used to be well-respected, and is built quite sturdily. However, the pirate had taken control of the ship, and was taking it in a very different direction. Someone with the requisite knowledge and influence might be able to bargain with the pirate captain in order to get themselves to the port at which they needed to arrive, but certainly not the average sailor.

Another was a ship which was also under the control of a pirate—the archrival of the other. There was a time when this ship, too, was well-respected. However, like the other, the pirate had taken control of the ship and was taking it in a very different direction.

The last was... well, no one would dispute it to be a boat, but arguing it to be a ship was a real stretch. However, that vessel was—unlike the other two—going roughly in the direction that I had been heading in. The vessel couldn't be said to be made necessarily of the highest quality parts, nor could it be said that travels would in any way be easy aboard it. However, I knew that it was heading more or less in the direction that I needed to go, and I also knew that those on board were unlikely to cause serious problems or attempt to throw me overboard.

And so, I chose the third vessel.

...I am going to have to just make GNU/Linux work for me as best as possible. I don't expect it all to be entirely pleasant, or easy. But it will at least be tolerable.

And that was my bottom line.

I am afraid (as a Linux-only user with very little Windows experience back at the time of Windows NT more than 20 years ago) I should agree with such statement

I am someone who, outside of using it for older games or for very particular tasks, doesn't like to use the command line/terminal if I don't have to. When I used GNU/Linux briefly a few years ago, I did use it a fair bit just to get the level of customisation and precision that I wanted, and I suspect that I will have to do the same this time around.

However, in general, I prefer not using it. And this is even more so the case with GNU/Linux, actually, in part because of the way the "super user" element works in it.

[Moonchild]

If you have to choose between something that is not ideal and something that is unacceptable, then that isn't much of a choice, is it? Of course you will choose the option that is not ideal, in that case. You'll find no resistance from me there.
I just found that (unlike Win 8.x that pushed the mobile envelope way too hard for me to be reasonable) Windows 10 is still acceptable and can be made to function in a more ideal way than GNU/Linux could, despite my fairly decent practical knowledge of the latter from years of administrative and server work. And I feel that is the same for a majority of Windows users who have used Windows 7 before. Mileage will vary from person to person.

I, too, could use GNU/Linux as a far-from-ideal-but-acceptable environment if I was forced to. But for me at least Windows 10 still provides me with enough control to do what I want and need.

[moonbat]

I don't expect it all to be entirely pleasant, or easy. But it will at least be tolerable.

It's not so bad, especially if you go with Mint as I did. Since 2019 I've been forced to use Linux since I have a pretty underpowered and old laptop here that was barely able to run Windows 10, but I slowly got used to it. I use Mint XFCE edition, visually it is closer to Windows XP (a taskbar with actual visible window titles of open windows) and it is quite customizable. I use stevepusser's repository for Pale Moon - it gets updated along with the built in package manager. Except for hardcore gaming or graphics/video editing focused on Adobe products, everything else you want to do is covered here with a Linux version or an equivalent application. If you're into programming, it's much easier to set up any programming language or IDE you want. In fact looking at the increasing trainwreck of Windows 10 and now 11 over the last 3 years, I'm glad I made the move when I did.

There isn't really much you have to do with the commandline as some people fear - everything you want is available out of the box or using the software manager and best of all you can create a bootable USB live environment out of the ISOs offered for download and test it out first without touching your existing setup. Of the 3 variants (Cinnamon, Mate, XFCE), the last is the least resource hungry.

[Tharthan]

everything else you want to do is covered here with a Linux version or an equivalent application.

Yeah, I know from my previous brief usage of Lubuntu years back (when it still came with LXDE) that applications like KDE Paint and LibreOffice fill the gaps that basic Windows programs like MS Paint and Microsoft Office do. I'll just have to figure out what the best equivalents are for the programs that I am currently using.

I am glad that Basilisk-Dev recommended "Krita" for a more in-depth image manipulation application. Although, given what was said in this thread, I will probably also install GIMP in addition to it. I briefly tried using a Windows version of GIMP years ago, but all I can remember is that I found its interface confusing. Right now, I am still actually using Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006 Editor, believe it or not. I got Microsoft Digital Image Suite Anniversary Edition for a bargain years and years ago now, and it has served my purposes very well over the years. I always preferred its interface to Photoshop's.

I already made an XFCE Mint-installable flash drive a bit ago. I am not trying to play around on the boot drive for now, because after the second time of booting it up (not fiddling with anything within the boot drive, for the record) it glitches up ever so slightly when it is first loading up. After that, there is no problem from what I can tell of a minute or two of testing it. I imagine that that is just a minor glitch, and not going to impact the installation, but I don't want to exacerbate any potential issue by fiddling around with it right now.

I just need to purchase the new computer for Mint to be on. I am ideally looking for an 'all-in-one' GNU/Linux desktop computer, since I imagine picking one up that was made for GNU/Linux and then just installing Mint via the installation drive would be easier than purchasing an 'all-in-one' computer with Windows 10 or 11 on it and then overwriting it with Mint, given what I remember hearing about "Secure Boot" built into Windows 10 computers a year or two back (maybe three years now?)

When I make the changeover sometime this year (probably within the next two months or less), my hope is to transfer over my workload to Mint as smoothly as possible, and within a week or so have things more or less ready to go for normal usage purposes.

[moonbat]

I just need to purchase the new computer for Mint to be on.

I have my sights set on this one as soon as I can afford it. They offer all 3 variants of Mint as well as other Linuxes as a pre installed option.

[Night Wing]

I just need to purchase the new computer for Mint to be on. I am ideally looking for an 'all-in-one' GNU/Linux desktop computer, since I imagine picking one up that was made for GNU/Linux and then just installing Mint via the installation drive would be easier than purchasing an 'all-in-one' computer with Windows 10 or 11 on it and then overwriting it with Mint, given what I remember hearing about "Secure Boot" built into Windows 10 computers a year or two back (maybe three years now?)

Off-topic:
One thing most people never think of when they purchase an "all in one" desktop. They are difficult to get into/repair if you have a change out a hard drive that goes on the fritz, add more memory, change out a fan if a bearing in the fan starts to go bad and makes a squeaking sound or change out a power supply if the power supply quits working.

Also, the insides of an "all in one" collect dust bunnies too especially on the fan blades on the fan over the microprocessor. And if you do not know to take an "all in one" apart yourself; when you take the computer to a computer repair shop, the shop is going to charge you "an arm, a leg, three fingers and two toes" money wise.

I have two regular desktop tower computers and a 32" external monitor. When I need to get into one or both of my towers, I just unscrew one bolt and off comes the side panel. And everything in a desktop tower is modular, easy to get to and replace (fans, power supply, graphics card, hard drives, etc).

[moonbat]

"all in one" desktop.

Off-topic:
And at any rate I doubt anyone would manufacture a Linux desktop in that form factor. A few companies like the one I listed offer custom built Linux laptops, it's great to know you don't have to fiddle with drivers and settings trying to run Linux on laptop hardware designed for Windows.

[Night Wing]

"all in one" desktop.

Off-topic:
And at any rate I doubt anyone would manufacture a Linux desktop in that form factor. A few companies like the one I listed offer custom built Linux laptops, it's great to know you don't have to fiddle with drivers and settings trying to run Linux on laptop hardware designed for Windows.

Off-topic:
The above is "not carved in granite". I'll explain.

I have 5 computers (2 desktop towers, 3 laptops). By list, four HP computers, one Dell computer. Four of them came with Windows 7 originally. One came with Windows 8. Right now, one desktop tower (with two hard drives in it) and one laptop, run Mint 21.1 (Vera) Xfce. The second desktop tower (with two hard drives in it) and two laptops, run MX Linux 21.3 (Wildflower) Xfce.

Mint loads the codecs (for graphics, sound, wifi, etc) at installation as long as you check the box for codecs upon installation. MX Linux loads it "after" installation; but it is easy to find and I think, since I'm using Mint for this message, in MX Linux, the codecs are in MX Tools.

The only thing which isn't loaded in Mint or MX Linux is the driver for the webcam when it comes to a laptop. But one doesn't have to go searching all over the internet to find the driver for the laptop's webcam.

All one has to do, in both Mint and MX Linux, if one is using the Xfce desktop environment, is to bring up the Synaptic Package Manager. Then in the Search field, type in "cheese". The SPM will find the program with the driver. Then mark for installation, click apply and the driver for the webcam is now installed. I did this 5 days ago for a man who purchased a 14" Asus laptop and he "had to have the webcam" working and I showed him it was working as it should.

I basically do the same thing when a person who comes into the repair shop where I volunteer at and needs his/her printer to work with the new linux operating system I put on an old Windows 7, 8, 8.1, or 10 computer which the customer bought.

As for the list you put up, what you would pay for that custom built computer built for a specific linux distribution, it would cost you "twice the cost" (or more) instead of restoring an old Windows computer with a new linux distribution for "half the cost".

And we give a 90 day money back guarantee to make sure everything works when we turn a Windows computer into a Linux computer, which includes the wifi, sound, graphics, webcams and printers.

[andyprough]

System76 sells brand new corebooted laptops starting at less than half of what Starlabs cost. Those Starlabs systems look pretty powerful, but it is worth considering. And if you want Mint or MX on it instead of System76's homemade Pop! OS distro, I would imaging you could either call them and ask or simply install over it yourself with a couple of mouse clicks once you received the laptop.

[moonbat]

System76 sells brand new corebooted laptops starting at less than half of what Starlabs cost.

Not here in Australia they don't. Their Oryx can go upto A$4000+ excluding delivery charges. I found Starlabs after looking at System76.

[andyprough]

System76 sells brand new corebooted laptops starting at less than half of what Starlabs cost.

Not here in Australia they don't. Their Oryx can go upto A$4000+ excluding delivery charges. I found Starlabs after looking at System76.

Wowwww!!!! Sorry to hear that. If you ever want me to order something for you and ship it to you, let me know. It's terrible how badly Australian consumers have been treated by tech companies over the years.

[moonbat]

The reason I'm more interested in Starlabs is they have an actual Australian version of their site and quote prices in AUD - System76 doesn't and I had to contact them to ask about delivery here. I wouldn't blame tech companies for an undeniable inconvenience of geographical isolation - especially when shipping goods from the US. And as it is these are small companies in a specialized niche with a small set of customers so they don't have economies of scale to drive prices down, as would be with Dell/HP/Acer and other big companies.

[athenian200]

Well, I'm glad I already have Windows 10 on all my main PCs. I do now have Windows 11 on the new Alder Lake laptop I got for school (my old one died a couple years ago), but it's fine for that because all I am going to do on it is use Word, Outlook, Powerpoint, and Edge, and Windows 11 is fine for that stuff. The bright side is that now I'll have a good testing environment for Windows 11 in case anyone is running it.

I've been contemplating a switch from Windows to an alternative OS for a while now, and honestly what I've found is that none of the alternatives are better... I kind of like OpenIndiana and Solaris, but the truth is that most of the applications I run on there would also work on Linux, which means it doesn't offer much that is unique. And on top of that, I'm finding that both myself, my school, and likely my potential employers actually rely a lot more heavily on Microsoft services than I wanted to admit to myself, and I'm finding I can't really do without what they're offering because it meets my needs and helps me get things done, just like always.

So really at the end of the day, regardless of the problems of newer versions of Windows, I will likely be using Windows for as long as Windows exists, seeing it as a necessary evil.

[andyprough]

I wouldn't blame tech companies for an undeniable inconvenience of geographical isolation - especially when shipping goods from the US.

I recall youtuber Brodie Robertson talking about how much more he was paying for graphics cards in Australia back when they were hard to find a couple of years ago. It sounded like it was quite a large "tax" for living in Australia.

[moonbat]

Not sure, could be GST on top of shipping costs. High end graphics cards again are a niche product for hardcore PC gamers, who are a small demographic worldwide as it is.

[Tharthan]

Off-topic:

System76 sells brand new corebooted laptops

I am specifically looking for a desktop computer. I appreciate the recommendation, though.

It may be that it makes more sense for me to just buy some random affordable desktop computer, and overwrite it with Mint, but I'd prefer to not do that (for the reason I mentioned above, as well as the fact that I want to be sure that what I am buying is not a spectacular dud that is going to just suddenly break on me in three months or something) and instead get one that was intended for GNU/Linux in the first place. I don't need something that has super-mega-ultra specs that are intended to play the latest PC games effortlessly, but costs obscene amounts of money. I'm not a PC gamer, I am a console gamer. The only PC games I could conceivably end up playing on the new PC ever are a few games from years and years ago that are single player or that at least can be played entirely in a single player mode if the gamer chooses.

I just need something that can be used for a jack-of-all-trades computer that is reasonably good, more or less affordable, and will serve me well for the foreseeable future.

If my computer weren't so old already, I would just replace Windows with Mint on this computer. But this computer is on its last legs, and I absolutely need to get a replacement.

[moonbat]

Off-topic:

I am specifically looking for a desktop computer.

System76 has them.

[athenian200]

Off-topic:
I am specifically looking for a desktop computer.

Off-topic:
https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/linux-systems

I remember hearing that Dell offers Linux as an option on a lot of systems, too. Most of the schools around here buy a bunch of these for computer labs, and I see them in businesses too. But yeah, according to this, you can get an Optiplex with Ubuntu preinstalled. Only difference is that it's a little cheaper because it ships without a Windows license.