I am just curious from a technical perspective, for fun...

[Tharthan]

I have an old MP3 player that I occasionally like to turn on and use. It's one of those ones from the early 2000s that were semi-popular as alternatives to the iPod. It's not the only thing that I use to play audio files or anything like that, so it'll be no big deal when it ends up completely going on me, but it is small and only requires very cheap batteries so I intend to hold onto it until it goes completely kaput, just because of how cheap and easy it is to use and how long the batteries last.

Lately, I have found that it seems to become... corrupted, I suppose would be the best description, if it is left unused for a day or two (sometimes even less time now, I have noticed). It won't turn on no matter what batteries are used, and when connected to the computer, it doesn't turn on either.

I have still managed to keep it going and quasi-usable because I have the firmware updater program for it. Every time that it ceases to work, I plug it into my computer (where it ends up being listed as "Player Recovery Class"). Then I run the program which has the firmware updater, and it ends up fixing it (more or less; it has to then be ejected first and then plugged back in before it works properly again). After that, it works like normal until it is left off for a significant period of time and then the process has had to begin again.

All of the audio files and folders that were on it are still there each time, so whatever corruption is going on isn't impacting the actual audio files, it seems.

Like I said, it's an old player, so I am not worried about continued longevity or anything from it. But I am curious what is going on from a technical perspective that leads this now to happen over and over.

Does anyone know what goes on from a technical perspective with it each time?

[somdcomputerguy]

Maybe it has another internal battery for settings and such?

[athenian200]

Hmm... if it's from the early 2000s, I would think there's a possibility that the player stores its firmware in some kind of battery-backed SRAM. Sort of like those old Nintendo cartridges (have you ever replaced the battery in an old SNES cart?). A lot of times they didn't have "true" non-volatile storage, and instead relied on a battery to keep SRAM refreshed. The battery dies, suddenly nothing you save lasts anymore when power is lost, because the firmware is stored in basically RAM masquerading as a proper flash ROM rather than an actual programmable ROM, especially when cost-cutting is involved.

Another possibility is that you actually do have a proper programmable ROM, but it's on the verge of total failure because you flashed the firmware too many times or something. This would be a harder problem to deal with as it would require sourcing a replacement for whatever chip the device stores its firmware on.

I would lean towards the first explanation being more likely, and in some very rare cases the battery can be designed in such a way that it can't be removed without destroying the BIOS chip it powers.

[Tharthan]

I would lean towards the first explanation being more likely, and in some very rare cases the battery can be designed in such a way that it can't be removed without destroying the BIOS chip it powers.

So, worst case scenario, that would require a replacement for both the internal battery and the chip itself.

Interesting. I wonder why they would make them like that. Was it to prevent customers from simply fixing them on their own if something went wrong?

Incidentally, I do know the name of the chip. Whenever it ceases to function properly, if I plug it into my computer, it lists the player by the name of that chip under "Devices and Printers". Once it is "fixed," it obviously doesn't do that any more, but whenever it is unusable, it shows the chip's name.

Since it appears under "Devices and Printers" pretty consistently when this happens, I imagine that the possibility that it is on the verge of total failure is made even less likely, right?

[athenian200]

Since it appears under "Devices and Printers" pretty consistently when this happens, I imagine that the possibility that it is on the verge of total failure is made even less likely, right?

Yeah. It most likely is just an internal battery somewhere in the phone.

The design I talked about wasn't that common, but at least one company (I think it was Dallas Semiconductor) made RTC chips that had the battery built into them in a way that required the whole chip to be replaced if the battery died. Barring that, the MP3 player does likely have an internal coin-cell battery somewhere in it that's dying.