Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Off-topic discussion/chat/argue area with special rules of engagement.
Forum rules
The Off-Topic area is a general community discussion and chat area with special rules of engagement.

Enter, read and post at your own risk. You have been warned!
While our staff will try to guide the herd into sensible directions, this board is a mostly unrestricted zone where almost anything can be discussed, including matters not directly related to the project, technology or similar adjacent topics.

We do, however, require that you:
  • Do not post anything pornographic.
  • Do not post hate speech in the traditional sense of the term.
  • Do not post content that is illegal (including links to protected software, cracks, etc.)
  • Do not post commercial advertisements, SEO links or SPAM posts.
We also ask that you keep strongly polarizing topics like politics and religion to a minimum. This forum is not the right place to discuss such things.
Please do exercise some common sense. How you act here will inevitably influence how you are treated elsewhere.
User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-12, 21:09

..so now they join hands with Facebook/Meta.
IPA here isn't referring to hipster beer but 'Interoperable Private Attribution'.
Our privacy goal is to limit the total amount of information IPA releases about an individual over a given period of time. We want to be able to make strong claims about the amount of information, even in the presence of an adversary that is willing to engage in fingerprinting, navigational-tracking, registering a large number of domains, or other attacks.

Our utility goal is to support all the major aggregate conversion measurement use-cases (view-through, click-through, return-on-ad-spend, conversion-lift, cross-publisher attribution), including in cases where ad impressions and ad conversions happen in different browsers or devices. While beyond the initial scope of this proposal, IPA could also be extended to support other forms of post-attribution aggregation, such as model training and other forms of sophisticated inference, which we explore in the Extensions section 6.2.

Our competition goal is to ensure all the utility use-cases listed above would function for all digital advertising players. Furthermore, we wanted to avoid designs that would create barriers to entry for new players.
How about you don't collect that information in the first place? I've always maintained that the user should be in control of their experience on the net. Pale Moon is all that's left for those who want that. If you want privacy - you have to secure your browsing experience and block ad/tracker scripts, not expect the advertisers to pinky swear that they won't snoop on you. Do Not Track was such a hit after all.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
andyprough
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2020-05-31, 04:33

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by andyprough » 2022-02-12, 21:25

including in cases where ad impressions and ad conversions happen in different browsers or devices
So it's about tracking you from your work laptop to your personal cell phone to your tablet at home to your smart TV while you sit on the couch. From Firefox to Chrome to Safari to WebOS.

It's a good thing that the "privacy browser company" has our interests at heart here. These are some smart people with basically unlimited funding. I don't know if they can be defeated in the long run. Might ultimately just have to give up on the webernet.

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-13, 00:16

andyprough wrote:
2022-02-12, 21:25
I don't know if they can be defeated in the long run.
Oh, they can. Just by using this browser you've already eliminated the issue of telemetry, bundled 3rd party bullshit and built in tracking, beyond that blocking tracking scripts and cookies is child's play with a properly configured adblocker. On Android, you'll have to root your device and use App Manager or equivalent to completely disable advertising and tracking components in addition to using a mobile browser that supports extensions. And it is a no brainer that you absolutely don't buy any hardware made by these companies no matter how cool it may seem to tell Alexa or Google Home to play your favorite song.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
andyprough
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2020-05-31, 04:33

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by andyprough » 2022-02-13, 00:55

moonbat wrote:
2022-02-13, 00:16
On Android, you'll have to root your device and use App Manager
App Manager looks great, got to try it! I've been using NetGuard for a few years to limit networking on an app-by-app basis - are you familiar with that one?

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-13, 00:59

AFWall+, formerly known as Droidwall, predates it by several years. Trouble is a simple firewall can't prevent an app that uses the internet to function from displaying ads. Of course you can also use the hosts based AdAway as the last line of defense, but App Manager can disable the ad fetching components themselves, which also helps in removing the frames within the app that display ads (with AdAway alone you will see them as blank areas). Best thing you can do is disable the ad components of Google Play Services, which is one of the internal APIs apps call to display Google's ads.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
andyprough
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2020-05-31, 04:33

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by andyprough » 2022-02-13, 02:48

moonbat wrote:
2022-02-13, 00:59
AFWall+, formerly known as Droidwall, predates it by several years. Trouble is a simple firewall can't prevent an app that uses the internet to function from displaying ads. Of course you can also use the hosts based AdAway as the last line of defense, but App Manager can disable the ad fetching components themselves, which also helps in removing the frames within the app that display ads (with AdAway alone you will see them as blank areas). Best thing you can do is disable the ad components of Google Play Services, which is one of the internal APIs apps call to display Google's ads.
Oh really? I don't ever see any ads on the cell phone. I think that's because I run everything through an ad blocking DNS. And I don't download anything outside of Fdroid, except for a couple of things I sometimes grab from developers' git repositories.

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1755
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by athenian200 » 2022-02-13, 07:34

I was about to check and see if someone posted about this here.

But yeah, I guess Firefox will be the Facebook browser from now on. That seems like a really bad move given that one of the main reasons people were using them over Chromium was a perceived sense that they cared more about user privacy than companies like Google or Facebook. But now they are partnered with both Google and Facebook... so it kind of makes them look bad to the people who were relying on them.

I think Firefox is becoming increasingly irrelevant anyway. The only thing that could save it at this point is if Google did something desperate like discontinue Google Chrome and make Firefox the default browser on Android phones to avoid monopoly claims, and then slowly push the web towards being Firefox-biased after getting everyone to invested in Chromium-based browsers thinking they were the future. In other words, if they were willing to sacrifice Chrome and use the Firefox partnership to screw over their other competitors now that Firefox has basically become Chrome anyway, they could make a huge disruptive mess for everyone else who was relying on Chromium and make themselves look good to people who still believe in Firefox while not significantly improving the situation in any way.

I mean, just imagine if all those Google engineers were suddenly tasked with contributing to Firefox instead of Chrome, and the web standards began to favor it? An open-source Chromium project no longer led by Google or benefitting from their code might struggle to keep up.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-13, 07:57

I think Google will give it just enough to stay on life support and inevitably Firefox will end up using Blink. Then their spin doctors will double down on the privacy respecting claims. What I found interesting was many of the Ghacks commenters slowly starting to realize that just maybe their favorite browser wasn't as saintly as it claimed to be :roll:
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 408
Joined: 2012-05-17, 19:06

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by Admin » 2022-02-13, 23:54

What is the most worrying is that Mozilla in their blog uses terms that nobody has explained the meaning of as if they are well-known terms for everyone.
It's overly vague as a result and could mean anything.
Did you know that moral outrage triggers the pleasure centers of the brain? It's unlikely you can actually get addicted to outrage, but there is plausible evidence that you can become strongly predisposed to it.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p002w557/episodes/downloads - "The cooperative species" and "Behaving better online"
Image

MrMobodies

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-14, 00:32

moonbat wrote:
2022-02-12, 21:09
I've always maintained that the user should be in control of their experience on the net. Pale Moon is all that's left for those who want that. If you want privacy - you have to secure your browsing experience and block ad/tracker scripts, not expect the advertisers to pinky swear that they won't snoop on you. Do Not Track was such a hit after all.
They track everything and yet they are still not satisfied, they have to dictate how I see things, many years ago on Google search there use to be a setting to turn off autocomplete/suggest whatever it is called. I can spell thank you very much and i know what I want to type. Years later the option disappeared so I was left with a parameter http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0, in about 2015 no longer working, started a thread in Google product forums and one of staff replied that "it's built in" and I felt so enraged. Looking how it could be hidden and that's when I first started to use Adblock (normally used hosts to block dodgy advert sites) and with the help of forums there I reported back with the suggest line elements that I hid and had a right go at them that I proved them wrong and a whole load of people with interest started commenting in the thread about something I couldn't make any sense out of to do pigs and the bacon.


I saw this a couple of days ago and found it a bit sad for what Firefox once was:

http://firefox.sucks/Firefox
Former Employee - Team Member says

"I worked at Mozilla full-time for more than 3 years Cons: - Mozilla is struggling to create a sustainable financial model that doesn't require cash from Google( the company they claim are destroying user privacy) -Bully behavior is common here and people who are favorites get away with it. This is a place for people who are extremely extroverted people who loves to step on other people's shoes & can play politics. If you don't fall under that category you might feel overwhelmed. Employees are not treated well, they fall victim of too much politics and are scared to speak up and express themselves. -Mozilla has a racially charged environment, being a person of minority race I have faced discrimination on many levels. Their focus is not on being fair to people of color, their focus is on looking good to the outside world. -Leaders are not trusting of their team and they decide to micro-manage which slows down execution. Employees feel over-worked and stressed due to lack of direction & politics, which results in making mistakes. Developing employees is not on the agenda for HR and leaders, they are too busy playing politics."... and the arrogance
Former Employee - Staff Software Engineer says

"I worked at Mozilla full-time for more than 8 years Cons: Mozilla has become a more business-oriented hierarchical model in its structure over the past five years and has steadily declined as a flat organization that acknowledges, encourages, or engages the open-source community that once made it great. Ideas now come from the top and not from within. It has continued to struggle to create a sustainable financial model that doesn't require regular and generous financial infusions of cash from Google and other search providers. The very companies that Mozilla deems as the organizations that are destroying privacy on the web. Roughly a year ago (2019), senior leadership pushed through raises for all employee bands (IC and management).Senior management, in particular, received significant pay increases. The now CEO received millions of dollars in inducements for leading a steady ship that hit it's target goals. At the end of the year the senior leadership team decided to cut costs [unrelated to COVID-19] and without ceremony embarked on a layoff of it's higher-paid, and more senior staff while largely leaving the director and above level untouched. This is the same group that received pay increases and bonuses for staying on target. Mozilla is a shadow of its once great self and the psychological safety that allowed for groundbreaking ideas to germinate and go-to-market are long over. Mozilla ungenerously executed a layoff into one of the most difficult economic events in the history of the current generation while it's leadership team financially benefited. Pair this against companies within the tech space which have fought to prevent layoffs and Mozilla does not measure up to the challenge."
So according above it looks like they did have good people working there but got laid off whilst the CEO and management got greedy .

Not looking good for Mozilla.

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-14, 02:27

Says the domain expired. If you saw it within the last few days, then they sure were quick to shut it down.
Edit: Bless the Internet Archive.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

MrMobodies

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-14, 02:57

That's interesting... not expired yet:

https://whois.domaintools.com/firefox.sucks
Dates 293 days old
Created on 2021-04-26
Expires on 2022-04-26
Updated on 2021-05-01
errp Expired Registration Recovery Policy
Please notice:
This domain name registration has expired and renewal or deletion are pending. If you are the registrant and want to renew the domain name, please contact your registration service provider.
That leaves it being deleted by the owner or complaints from somebody whether that'd be Mozilla.

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-14, 04:04

I mean, the domain has reverted to whoever offers domain services. If you open the site now that's what u get.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
Moonchild
Project founder
Project founder
Posts: 39276
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Sweden

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by Moonchild » 2022-02-14, 11:20

Smells like censorship
"Praise from a narcissistic person is always a poison dart. They don't share the stage, so discernment matters." - Dr. Ramani
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5845
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by moonbat » 2022-02-14, 11:47

Moonchild wrote:
2022-02-14, 11:20
Smells like censorship
Of course, given that this is who they are.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
KDE Neon on a Slimbook Excalibur (Ryzen 7 8845HS, 64 GB RAM)
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX
Jabber: moonbat@hot-chili.net

User avatar
Moonraker
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1873
Joined: 2015-09-30, 23:02
Location: uk.

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by Moonraker » 2022-02-14, 12:04

Next headline.
facebook browser powered by meta.?.! :lol:

Lot of truth is said in jest. :shh:

Mergers and takeovers seem to be common parlance now.
Years from now all individual big tech companies will merge as one. :twisted:
user of multiple puppy linuxes..upup,fossapup.scpup,xenialpup..... :thumbup:

Pale moon 29.4.1

User avatar
andyprough
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2020-05-31, 04:33

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by andyprough » 2022-02-14, 14:44

Moonraker wrote:
2022-02-14, 12:04
Next headline.
facebook browser powered by meta.?.! :lol:
"Fireboook - the social media browser that Respects Your Privacy(TM)"

MrMobodies

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-14, 18:57

I think I understand what is happening, Google were trying to stick their fork into it as for the Chrome look alike and now they seem to be succeeding. Sarcasm

User avatar
Claverhouse
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 27
Joined: 2020-04-23, 00:30

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by Claverhouse » 2022-03-22, 23:17

moonbat wrote:
2022-02-12, 21:09
Do Not Track was such a hit after all.
True, yet I never understood why they triumphantly proclaimed Do Not Track was a vindication of the futility of resistance to spying, when because it wasn't mandatory, all the major browsers came up with faintly ludicrous reasons why they would not honour it.

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1755
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia

Re: Clearly, partnering with Google alone wasn't enough..

Post by athenian200 » 2022-03-23, 03:42

I really don't understand why Firefox exists at all at this point. It seems like one of those forgotten brands they keep trying to revive, like the companies that keep trying to bring back Atari or Colecovision for some random gaming device they just came out with.

Maybe they are just trying to ride the gravy train until they can declare bankruptcy or something, but they can't quite go bankrupt because they keep getting too much support. I know another company that did something like that, they knew they would have to declare bankruptcy eventually, but they were doing just well enough that it wasn't happening quickly, and it dragged out for several years even with lots of money being wasted and obvious mismanagement.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind