The "Post-PC" era (smartphones)

[UCyborg]

Funny, I've said in the past using PC may become pointless at some point and one might just do with a smartphone alone.

[Mæstro]

Funny, I've said in the past using PC may become pointless at some point and one might just do with a smartphone alone.

The idea is not especially new. Marketers in the early tens lauded the forthcoming post-PC era, and enough time has passed, with enough horror stories from the youth, for this phrase to have shown itself more than sensational, at least respecting domestic use. We have US American figures from 2019 showing more people finding smartphones sufficient for their purposes. (Later versions of this survey exist, but do not discuss why exclusive smartphone users are thus.) Their share has surely only grown since then. Indeed, I have a friend like this. Rarely, he might use an ordinary computer to prepare a slide show, but in daily life, he appears only to use his mobile. For a while, I thought that computer games would preserve home interest in traditional PC among many, but just a few days ago, I have heard about what is, in effect, an ordinary Linux computer designed to be used as a console. Nevertheless, I think the needs of business should keep traditional computers alive. Businesses need their files, no matter how much smartphones try to abstract them away, and Britsh surveys show few even try to use their smartphones thus.

[Night Wing]

I do not own a smartphone. Just an old fashioned clam style flip cell phone. And it mostly stays in the drawer in my bedroom. And it is not connected to the internet either by my choice. Most of the times when I turn it on, it is just to recharge the battery. I mainly use it when I am traveling on long trips or when I take it with me when I go surfing down at Quintana Beach or at Port Aransas (both in Texas).

Smartphones may be the "rage", but the malware writers love smartphones too. I read an article where the apps in the Google Store, lots of them had malware on the apps. And Google does not vet their apps in the store.

But if I ever decide to own a smartphone, which I do not think I ever will, I will NEVER put my financial or medical information on it. Many people call me a "luddite" because of my personal choice not to use a smartphone, but on this score, I like and enjoy being a luddite and not being a target for smartphone malware.

Another reason I do not like smartphones. I do not like their, in my opinion, small viewing screens. All three of my laptops have 14" screens and my two desktop tower computers connect to an external 32" monitor.

[Mæstro]

I have also been happy to live without a smartphone. Until returning to Germany two years ago, I used a clamshell rather like you, and then until early this year, I used a bar. Since then, I have found that I can get on without a mobile phone at all. As it is, I request a family member place or receive calls on my behalf if needed, but I would be happy to return to either feature phone I used before, or even the landline, if I were unable to do this. When I am out, I am unreachable, and everyone knows this about me and does not worry. Others have teased me for ‘wanting to live in the nineties’, as if this were bad, and have even got me smartphones as unsolicited gifts to try to convince me. All collect dust, for I have no need of them. Touchscreens are literally painful for me to use due to disability. A typical smartphone today is so sleek that it slips out of my hands if someone tries to hand me one, and I feel my arms and fingers twitching if asked to unlock it on somebody’s behalf. While I am aware of smartphones which use traditional, physical keyboards, I know of none today which does not nevertheless demand submitting to Google’s terms on first launch. I simply have no need for smartphones. There has never been anything which could not already be done better by something else readily accessible. Smartphones lack any good reason to exist.

[Lucio Chiappetti]

I can add a "me too" not using smartphones. Not for "ideological reasons" (at least originally), although there might be some, see e.g. this book by a professor at the Polytechnic of Turin https://demartin.polito.it/?page_id=1456 if you can get a translator. On one hand I've never been fond of telephones at all, and always preferred asyncronous communication (e-mail). On another hand I can handle my scarce need of voice communications with a clam dumbphone with a numeric keypad. I have generally no need to call or be called when not at home. I have difficulties with touchpads, and don't like small screens because of presbyopia. While since I'm retired I got two PCs, a desktop and a laptop (on holidays I carry my laptop and my router with me). I can do the things I need to do better on a PC, and I can't imagine why I should find other smart"phone uses attractive, although, looking at the people sitting in the underground (and even standing) with a s.p. in their hand, I am a minority (I'll have a book in my hand ... a paper one, the good old Holmes-Ginsbook device https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/The_Holm ... ook_Device

[Gemmaugr]

Add another one not using a smartphone here. I do it for several reasons. Privacy. Not supporting google. Not having to pay for internet twice. Not supporting brainrot in its various ways.

[UCyborg]

You can still online bank without having to have smartphone for 2FA?

[Lucio Chiappetti]

At least my bank allows 2FA via SMS OTP (at a small fee). For access to public administration services via the national SPID system, it depends on the SPID provider, the Post Office allows SMS OTP (with a quota). But most administrations allow identification with the CNS (the national health service chip card with the fiscal code) which is what I use with a smart card reader attached to the PC. It should work also with the CIE (national electronic identity card), although with a different NFC reader ... I'll experiment in the future when I get a new CIE

[Mæstro]

Perhaps our smartphone dialogue should be split into its own thread.

You can still online bank without having to have smartphone for 2FA?

My German bank, found nationwide, offers physical verifiers for smartphone rejectors and even the ability to disable verification. One of these is sitting in my wardrobe now; I have never bothered to set up online banking here. There is a restaurant I like to visit just outside my bank, so I make it a point to eat there whenever I have got banking to do.
One can also find other all-purpose verifiers, separate devices which do not resemble a smartphone in the least, in the bargain bin at the major appliance and electronics shops here. Meanwhile, my US credit union permits verification through email or answering security questions.

On one hand I've never been fond of telephones at all, and always preferred asyncronous communication (e-mail).

We are alike in this. I have always treated the telephone as a last resort, the only exception being if I should request assistance at an hotel from my room. (I appreciate that hotels and offices continue to use traditional telephones, and that these are still regularly sold in regular shops.) Because my ears are sensitive to a receiver or mobile brushing even lightly against me and find it hard to keep the receiver in place without my arm twitching, I always activate the speaker phone.

I have generally no need to call or be called when not at home.

Once again, we are the same. My historical phone use outside the home was for only two reasons: to ease my parents’ worries while studying in another city or continent, and to keep in touch with a friend who was then studying in Hungary. The end of that friendship precipitated my choice to leave mobile phones behind altogether.

I [have] got two PCs, a desktop and a laptop (on holidays I carry my laptop and my router with me).

Because I shuttle between continents every few months now, I have got two laptops instead. My preferred one is that mentioned in my signature, the one enjoying continuous use since 2012 and which I always keep clean. It is the only one which I am willing to bring onto my bed, which I must keep pristine (so much so that I always wash before entering it). The other is a refurbished Fujita which is somewhat younger, but nevertheless old enough to have an optical drive. It sees use in hotel rooms on the desk or in the lounge, or at the airport or aboard the aeroplane. I have got the same OS installed there, but have not installed any other software, including my VPN and Pale Moon, and its mirror of my personal files is a few years obsolete. It suffices when travelling, but lacking my browser my way can feel rather restrictive.

I can do the things I need to do better on a PC, and I can't imagine why I should find other ["]smart"phone uses attractive

This is precisely why I say smartphones have no good reason to exist. Reviewing the list of tasks for which Britons use their smartphones, I thought to myself that these are all things which we should have done otherwise in 2010, be it with a feature phone, a traditional PC, a navigator, camera, radio, television or otherwise. Many of these are not such things as need be done while out by most people, or could be managed with motile devices other than smartphones. I do not mind the existence of most smartphones that existed in 2010, but these were clearly meant for businessmen, not general use.
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I'll have a book in my hand ... a paper one, the good old Holmes-Ginsbook device[]

Likewise! I like to keep the Bible, Flatland, a small dictionary or one-volume encyclopaedia or an old coursebook from the antiquarian with me on my outings. Having something to read is nice while waiting for my meal at the restaurant after visiting my bank.

[Gemmaugr]

You can still online bank without having to have smartphone for 2FA?

My bank sends a device with a camera that reads QR codes and accepts a PIN. It's very recent. Before that I had another device that took my debit card in it, and a PIN. Before that I could actually log in with just a password.

I'll have a book in my hand ... a paper one, the good old Holmes-Ginsbook device[]

Yeah, I read books instead too. Sci-Fi and Fantasy books mostly. At the bus, train, eating, waiting, etc. Good times.

[back2themoon]

I used to not have a smartphone, but the inconvenience has become too much. So, I accepted "defeat" and Google's dominance in this particular area. Always being careful with the various privacy settings etc.

I sure as hell won't accept any dominance from Windows 11 though.

[Night Wing]

About the only "minor" inconvenience I have by not owning a smartphone is when a physician's office sends me a reminder by email of my appointment at their office. The reminder always includes a QR code.

It seems many physician's offices thinks "everyone" on the planet Earth owns a smartphone. As for me; I have to turn on a printer, take a screenshot of the QR code in the email, print it out on a piece of paper, then cut out the QR code so I can take it with me to have their scanner, scan it.

And I do not mind this inconvenience. To get me to own a smartphone, something will have to "drastically" happen to get me to purchase a smartphone.

[Gemmaugr]

About the only "minor" inconvenience I have by not owning a smartphone is when a physician's office sends me a reminder by email of my appointment at their office. The reminder always includes a QR code.

It seems many physician's offices thinks "everyone" on the planet Earth owns a smartphone. As for me; I have to turn on a printer, take a screenshot of the QR code in the email, print it out on a piece of paper, then cut out the QR code so I can take it with me to have their scanner, scan it.

And I do not mind this inconvenience. To get me to own a smartphone, something will have to "drastically" happen to get me to purchase a smartphone.

Your doctors waiting rooms require QR codes to scan!? I shouldn't be surprised really, but I am thankful it only requires your DOB/SS here. Manual input machine to get a queuing ticket.

The drastic thing is silently building up I'm afraid: https://reclaimthenet.org/?s=Digital+ID Not enough pushback, but they're taking it slow and softening it up before the frog is truly boiled.

[Mæstro]

Your experience with QR codes at your surgery resembles mine with train tickets. German Railways (Deutsche Bahn) issues tickets now as QR codes, so I have arranged for these to be printed in advance to show if needed. Failing that, I keep screenshots of the relevant webpage and will open the travelling laptop I mentioned above.

‘Convenience’ is a recurring theme in discussions about smartphones. A major YouTube channel promoting smartphone-free life styles itself Reject Convenience; others near me who wish I used a smartphone have complained it is ‘not convenient’ (or even that I am ‘not convenient, whatever that means). I almost never hear the word used outside discussions of smartphones. If I look into a typical dictionary, I find:

convenient (kənˈviːnɪənt)
adj
1. suitable for one's purpose or needs; opportune
2. easy to use
3. close by or easily accessible; handy

Smartphones themselves fail all three of these points for me, as my description of my life habits shows. They are literally inconvenient. The social presumption that everybody uses a smartphone is false and exclusive, introducing inconveniences on the rest of us, and can be subsumed within the general problem that people who are different or unusual in some way have their needs ignored. Being also left-handed, it is the same problem as how many common tools and implements are designed exclusively for right-handers, as opposed to neutral designs (favouring neither hand) or mirroring a tenth of the stock. Convenience is a red herring; the real problem is accessibility.

[Night Wing]

Off-topic:

About the only "minor" inconvenience I have by not owning a smartphone is when a physician's office sends me a reminder by email of my appointment at their office. The reminder always includes a QR code.

It seems many physician's offices thinks "everyone" on the planet Earth owns a smartphone. As for me; I have to turn on a printer, take a screenshot of the QR code in the email, print it out on a piece of paper, then cut out the QR code so I can take it with me to have their scanner, scan it.

And I do not mind this inconvenience. To get me to own a smartphone, something will have to "drastically" happen to get me to purchase a smartphone.

Your doctors waiting rooms require QR codes to scan!? I shouldn't be surprised really, but I am thankful it only requires your DOB/SS here. Manual input machine to get a queuing ticket.

The drastic thing is silently building up I'm afraid: https://reclaimthenet.org/?s=Digital+ID Not enough pushback, but they're taking it slow and softening it up before the frog is truly boiled.

This is happening to me when I use Quest Diagnostics when I have to have lab work ("blood work") done for my yearly visit. I need the lab work so the doctor/physician can give me a "new" prescription (90 pills with 3 refills) for high blood pressure. Even surgery procedures require a QR code where I live these days depending on the medical facility.

[UCyborg]

I do agree smartphone apps shouldn't be as mandated as much as they are. I noticed in recent times, smartphones are even used in place of payment card readers by personnel in restaurants.

I bought a new car 3 years ago. The salesman just assumed I have a smartphone (I do, but what the heck?), the question came up out of nowhere - Apple or Android. I never used their app.

Or what about that everyone wants your phone number and email? At least I can still go to the barber and they don't want my email.

Do I look like a person that person loves reading mails or talking on the phone? I have enough of that at work.

They never have anything nice to say. Either they want something from you or try to sell you something. Bleh!

[Lucio Chiappetti]

Perhaps our smartphone dialogue should be split into its own thread.

I second this suggestion. Won't talk anymore in this thread until it is split.

[frostknight]

I second this suggestion. Won't talk anymore in this thread until it is split.

Well I will just say one thing on the subject, the only good smartphone is a degoogled smartphone like graphene OS or similar.

But probably it is good to split this topic off.

[Gemmaugr]

I second this suggestion. Won't talk anymore in this thread until it is split.

Well I will just say one thing on the subject, the only good smartphone is a degoogled smartphone like graphene OS or similar.

But probably it is good to split this topic off.

Not really. "degoogled" a misnomer since it will still rely heavily on google.
Using Graphene as an example, it's an android rebuild using the latest google android version and even requires a google pixel phone.
And that's not even mentioning that it will use a stock google webview browser, and google flutter or electron apps.

[UCyborg]

I like having ability to read stuff online somewhere other than sitting on a chair behind computer screen. It's where smartphone is handy in my case. Laptop is still clunky.