Windows 11 still sucks.

[LuftWafflePilot]

I still haven't properly tested Win11 in a VM and transferred my unattended setup over from 10, so I thought ok, new major version, maybe I'll find the motivation to spend a few hours on this now, downloaded the media creation tool to download an ISO, and... the fucking thing just crashes after briefly displaying a startup screen or something. It doesn't work on my wife's notebook either.
Good job Microsoft

[UCyborg]

Off-topic:
Wait, does Edge support HTTP/2 without TLS? And what even is the point of HTTP/2 by default in localhost?

No idea, but from what I managed to test on one machine, messing with HTTP/2 registry settings didn't change anything. Apparently it was solved today by Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Defender Antivirus.

[frostknight]

so I thought ok, new major version, maybe I'll find the motivation to spend a few hours on this now, downloaded the media creation tool to download an ISO, and... the fucking thing just crashes after briefly displaying a startup screen or something. It doesn't work on my wife's notebook either.
Good job Microsoft

I get that microsoft is still considered user friendly and has lot of application compatibility, but besides that, I still cannot understand why people crave it.

Especailly given you pay like 130$ extra and it has tons of ads even on the desktop itself

Wild...

I am not a linux mint or zorin fan, but those two look way less crappy.

[mr tribute]

I mostly like Windows 11, but I had to try this WinBoat app on Linux. So this is the Windows version of Pale Moon running on my Linux desktop. It's a docker plus freerdp solution. It works for what it is, but no GPU passthrough.

[BloxDeGroteUnsklled]

It's been 4 years now and Microsoft still haven't patched a lot of bugs in Windows 11. I guess that now that not everyone gets Windows 10 support anymore, Windows 11 is the only user-friendly option despite the bugs, and we have to adapt.

[Moonchild]

user-friendly option

That's debatable. See my first post in this thread.

we have to adapt.

No, we don't. We can also just reject the premise of running on a buggy mess that is more a marketing exercise than actually a user-oriented operating system.

As a side note: Microsoft screwed the pooch for all Windows 10 Enterprise (LTSC) users. The most recent Windows update ended Update support for LTSC as well, according to the message in the Windows Settings app. My own installation was affected too so I had to manually remove the "security" update (KB5066791) to get rid of the update blocker and push for Win 11. Note that I have a valid license for Win 10 E 2021 LTSC, and I should get continued support on it for some years yet, but Microsoft seems to be really really adamant about making for this hard push to a version most people really don't want for various reasons. My hardware can run it, no problem, but my wetware (brain) can't accept it.

See also: https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1o77q40/windows_10_ltsc_2021_end_of_life_what_the_hell/

[BloxDeGroteUnsklled]

We can also just reject the premise of running on a buggy mess that is more a marketing exercise than actually a user-oriented operating system.

Okay. What exactly will we use then, if we're not tech experts, yet we despise Windows 11? Installing a new operating system itself isn't very easy for regular, non-tech-savvy users, as there are some "Materials Required" i.e. a USB, an ISO and a brain. Even after a successful installation, if the new OS doesn't satisfy us, that's just hours of work wasted just to erase the disk and put a fresh OS on the computer. Add the time taken to download an ISO to it, and there's a man behind his desk crashing out because he could've used the time to do something productive.

Besides, this may not be new information, but there are many laptops pre-installed with Windows that don't even run if you switch to a different OS. For example, I have an Acer Aspire which won't boot any OS other than Windows unless it's via USB. The island in which our "no" is respected is now shrinking.

[Moonchild]

Okay. What exactly will we use then

I suggest using a LTSC version of Windows 10.
There are even guides out there that will let you satisfy Windows 10 Enterprise's installer prerequisites so you can upgrade Home or Pro directly to it without needing to reinstall. Considering how close the kernel modules and underpinnings of the Pro and Enterprise versions of Windows 10 are, I really don't think there's much risk of doing that.
There are also cheap "grey market" licenses available for this that won't set you back much and that are fully valid and genuine (Of course make sure you research reputation before buying) so you can activate.

Alternatively, keep using Windows 10 as you are. If you are careful in your use you can certainly use it for a few more years without updates, and maybe use that time to research and try out alternatives.

[Night Wing]

My next door neighbor, who owns the computer repair shop where I volunteer at on some days, called me up and said there are a lot of people coming into the shop looking at and demoing the two linux computers (desktop, laptop) running linux distros. He told me the desktop tower with three SSD's running Mint, MX Linux and Debian in our showroom, are getting lots of "play" with these people.

These people are telling him they do not want to go to Windows 11, but they are "not" in love with Windows 10 either. I told him to tell them if they "need" a Windows "only" program; like Office 365 or Photoshop", they need to "stay" with Windows 10 or go to 11. He told me they do not like "Recall" or CoPilot".

Some of these people's computers do not have the TPM 2.0 chip in them so they cannot go to Windows 11. While others do have this chip, but they do not want Windows 11.

I told my neighbor I am not a power user in linux. Just a non technical user who knows enough about the linux distros which offer XFCE I use as the desktop environment to not get myself into trouble with any of these three linux distros. And if I find a problem, I can find the answer and fix it quickly time wise.

My neighbor told me these people are mentioning a YouTube video which is getting a lot of views on YouTube and this video has only been on YouTube since October 14th. I found the video and I agree with the man who posted the video and he is a Windows power user who dislikes Windows 11 "intensely".

I also found another video which came from another man who is a linux distro devotee, but is level headed which he means he is not really biased against Windows. The "pros and cons" for these videos are good in my opinion.

The two videos are below. Keep in mind these videos I am posting are just "food for thought". And if any members on this site are wondering if I would ever go back to any Windows operating system, the answer is "no" because in my opinion, the Windows operating system is now an advertising and data mining platform. For what I do and how I do things using linux distros, Linux is the "cat's meow for me".

The videos are a little long, but lots of good info is in them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C44iCr6czAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oox87gARjE

[frostknight]

I guess that now that not everyone gets Windows 10 support anymore, Windows 11 is the only user-friendly option despite the bugs, and we have to adapt.

I could have done this with windows 8/8.1, but I hated the look so much... and other suspicions when I updated to 8.1. Yes this is about windows 11, this thread, but the principle can apply here too.

Don't accept crap being sold to you on a silver platter if you don't want to digest it.

I suggest using a LTSC version of Windows 10.

That certainly sounds better than windows 11, I will give you that.

My memory is lacking, but I thought you said you didn't use LTSC version of windows.

Meh... I probably got something mixed up somewhere.

In any case, hope you got a decent firewall and/or good blocking addons on.

I am sure since you are such an experienced user of windows and tech in general, you probably do.

These people are telling him they do not want to go to Windows 11, but they are "not" in love with Windows 10 either. I told him to tell them if they "need" a Windows "only" program; like Office 365 or Photoshop", they need to "stay" with Windows 10 or go to 11. He told me they do not like "Recall" or CoPilot".

Actually, I just installed ZorinOS on someone's older computer alongside windows today. They are playing around with it to see if they like the idea of using it.

To be determined on that though.

I took 300GB off of the windows partition to give it to the Zorin one.

my parents don't like the copilot stuff much either.

Man microsoft really doesn't give a blankity blank about their user base. Seems like they pushing for subscription model for the future and making it an ad-hell too.

Linux is the "cat's meow for me".

I agree more than not about this.

I don't like the direction mainstream linux is heading in, but in general, its the best idea at the moment.

I would take mainstream linux over windows 11 in a heartbeat though and for that matter windows in general.

[UCyborg]

Win11 23H2 was apparently the last version with proper taskbar still baked in its code (need ExplorerPatcher):



I get the same glitches on Win10 1809, happens in multi-monitor config when you have taskbar to set show only active programs on the monitor it's in on, I suspect it happens for programs you have pinned and you're moving its windows between monitors.

They rather threw the good old taskbar out and replaced it with dumbed down one. Did it ever work properly?

[Moonchild]

My memory is lacking, but I thought you said you didn't use LTSC version of windows.

I switched over to it earlier this year. I thought it was worth the expense.

And what you might be thinking of is me having an issue with Windows XP 2009 POS as a desktop environment; that is still valid. Versions of an OS specifically designed and configured for use on single-purpose machines are generally a bad idea for desktop use (that includes Windows 10 IoT).

Seems like they pushing for subscription model for the future and making it an ad-hell too.

I wouldn't have an issue with a subscription model, actually. It's something you use every day, and I'd be happy to pay for a license subscription.
But if it's subscription, then ads and telemetry/data gathering needs to be gone. Can't have the cake and eat it too. Also, it has to be usable off-line without a constant tether, at least for a reasonable amount of time.

[UCyborg]

I still haven't properly tested Win11 in a VM and transferred my unattended setup over from 10, so I thought ok, new major version, maybe I'll find the motivation to spend a few hours on this now, downloaded the media creation tool to download an ISO, and... the fucking thing just crashes after briefly displaying a startup screen or something. It doesn't work on my wife's notebook either.
Good job Microsoft

It crashes like this on computers which CPU doesn't support SSE 4.2 instructions. Win11 23H2 is the last one that boots on older CPUs.

Though since you mention Media Creation Tool, that tool blocks preparation of installation media on unsupported computers. I prefer Rufus.

[LuftWafflePilot]

I have no idea about CPU instructions, but am 99% sure Ryzen 5800X is not the problem here, lol. I mean media creation tool for Win 11 24H2 worked, so this must be something they messed up.

[frostknight]

But if it's subscription, then ads and telemetry/data gathering needs to be gone. Can't have the cake and eat it too. Also, it has to be usable off-line without a constant tether, at least for a reasonable amount of time.

Yeah.... the ads would be hard enough to convince them to get rid of, but the data gathering and telemetry, I have zero doubt they will ever get rid of that even with a subscription model.

They just too damn greedy that's all.

[andyprough]

I told him to tell them if they "need" a Windows "only" program; like Office 365 or Photoshop", they need to "stay" with Windows 10 or go to 11.

If they feel they need Office 365 for Word document compatibility, I've found that the free version of OnlyOffice has an extremely high level of compatibility. OnlyOffice is freely licensed and has a repository for installing on Debian-based distros, and has AppImages and similar installation methods for other distros.

[back2themoon]

All that money, and yet their releases have become shittier and buggier than ever.

And it keeps getting worse.

[Night Wing]

Yeah.... the ads would be hard enough to convince them to get rid of, but the data gathering and telemetry, I have zero doubt they will ever get rid of that even with a subscription model.

They just too damn greedy that's all.

I will agree with you above. I'll even go one step further when Microsoft releases Windows 12 which I think they will.

There are a lot of people who complained about Windows 8 (8.1) and 10 when those were released and they said they would leave Windows for another operating system like Apple and Linux (distros). But that didn't happen. These people just bit the bullet and stayed with Windows 8 and then 10..

Fast forward to today. Many of those same people are complaining about Windows 11 and threatening again to leave Windows for Apple or Linux (distros). But Microsoft has also learned it's lesson about these people.

For all their ranting, hollering, screaming, stamping of their feet about Windows 11; these people will comply and use Windows 11. The evidence is already there concerning the same types of behavior with Windows 8 and Windows 10. These types of empty hollow threats do not deter Microsoft. I think it does the "opposite" and emboldens Microsoft.

Microsoft (today) makes the majority of it's revenue from AI and the Cloud. Not from the Windows operating system. With that said, here comes my far out wild speculation. I think Microsoft will make Windows 12, for Retail and not Enterprise (business), a "purely" subscription model operating system using the "à la carte" method which means separately priced items on the operating system and not as part of the entire operating system.

One will purchase the Windows 12 operating system and pay a yearly fee to use (rent) it. Then there will be a separate yearly fee to use "Office". And if Microsoft is bold enough, maybe yearly fees for both Recall and Copilot. And the ads and the gathering of telemetry, I think it will get much worse and not better.

The above is as I always put it, "food for thought".

[UCyborg]

Windows 8 and 8.1 were easy compared to today's monstrosities. At least if you were already using ClassicShell on Windows 7, Windows 8.x was Windows 7 with flat theme, out-of-box support for some newer hardware / hardware related standards, some kernel tweaks (tickless kernel!, among other things) and some bugs at obscure places.

[LuftWafflePilot]

I managed to get 25H2 installed first in a VM and then on my wife's new notebook (which I am still using for experimenting with the automated setup to refine it somewhat).
Can't say I am impressed by the perceived "clutter upgrade" the OS received since Windows 10. I am sure there are sound improvements under the hood and I will most likely switch my own PC over (I had to put the OS on the new notebook because it has wifi 7 and no LAN) within a few days as well since I bought new MB+CPU+RAM, but they really did not have to put so much shit in the system, and the stupid AI is the smallest of the problems. At least that can be disabled.
What I am speechlessly impressed by is their inability to still move over from the old control panel which is still in the system and completely functional. I mean what the FUCK, ten years and they still haven't moved even half the settings over to the new UI? What the-????