Chromium vs. Everything Else

[van p]

From Chromite FAQs (https://github.com/uazo/cromite/blob/master/docs/FAQ.md):

"Using Cromite will favour the monopoly of the Chromium/Blink engine, why do you develop and maintain Cromite?
Many years of experience with chromium code leads me to think that it is indeed the best browser out there. Its flaws are Google's priority to its customers over its users, but I don't have that problem."

How does anybody feel about the idea expressed in the first sentence of the answer?

[vannilla]

No idea what the project is or who the person behind it and neither do I care.
From the heights of my ignorance I might as well believe it could be a case of a frog in a well.

[van p]

vannilla, read the last 2 posts of the 2 topics following this one.

[Moonchild]

How does anybody feel about the idea expressed in the first sentence of the answer?

It's fine to have that opinion. The expression "the best browser" is subjective.
I have more of a problem with the second sentence than the first in terms of the developer's attitude

[Gemmaugr]

I think google have manipulated the environment to its and chrome/ium's advantage. Making the "universal" key and keyhole change to fit each-other, at the expense of others.
It's googles open prison garden, making them a monoculture.

Chromium/ChromeOS & Android
Chrome/ium & webview browser
Electron & Chromium Embedded Framework & QTWebEngine
WHATWG internet standards
Angular & Node/Next/React/Vue.js site frameworks
gfonts, google tag manager, google analytics, google ads, etc
Youtube, gmail, google docs, google maps, google search, etc

Which is often bloated and only really works well within its own eco-system, but maintains some outward compatibility to make their own stuff seem more convenient.

[van p]

I have more of a problem with the second sentence than the first in terms of the developer's attitude

Moonchild, can you put some meat on them bones? The comment seems accurate and reasonable. What am I missing?

[Moonchild]

Moonchild, can you put some meat on them bones? The comment seems accurate and reasonable. What am I missing?

I'll try to word it. It's a bit of a complex thought not easily unravelled though. Don't blame me if I fail ;P
The issue I think there is is not acknowledging that Chromium is built and furthered from the ground up with Google's uses/use cases in mind, so you can't really say "I don't have that problem" when you're literally adopting the Chromium-engine, warts and all, as-is. The problem is inherent to the back-end. And by building Chromium, it furthers the already monopolistic marketshare to further support that development model of Google's use cases first/only. So whether the fork dev has interest in Google's customers or not doesn't make a lick of difference to what is published.

[moonbat]

So whether the fork dev has interest in Google's customers or not doesn't make a lick of difference to what is published.

He's already called it the 'best' browser so there's no reason to take him seriously

[van p]

He's already called it the 'best' browser so there's no reason to take him seriously

Are you saying this because you don't think it's the best browser or because there's no objective way to make such a determination?

[Moonchild]

there's no objective way to make such a determination?

The "best browser" by definition is subjective because it depends entirely on your level of knowledge of the application and use case.

Chromium has a lot of warts. You only have to look at the many ways in which it doesn't adhere to defined standards (and then having the standards be made to adhere to its implementation). Even just this release cycle Firefox has changed away from the HTML standard when it comes to html <object> elements (which I'm not doing), to align with Chromium even if the standard is clear as day about it (and yes that's whatwg's "living standard", i.e. the one that is considered to be authoritative for html elements) to name one of the most recent things. I don't have time to give exact examples at the moment but there are many, many more.
So it can be said objectively that it is not the best browser; but subjectively, if it does the most of what a user wants, then specifically for that user, it can be the "best".

[UCyborg]

There is no "best browser" IMO. And Pale Moon has its share of issues too. You switch the tab at the wrong time, the GUI hangs, you visit the "wrong site", it gets stuck in the permanent CPU spike cycle. What's the wrong site anyway? Google won the browsers war and there's no getting around that.

Oh, and debugging anything in Pale Moon is PITA, be it websites or extensions.

[van p]

My tabs don't "switch." Not sure what you're talking about there.

If by "GUI hangs" you mean 'browser name (not responding),' my Chromium browser does that.

My Pale Moon doesn't take me to the "wrong site."

Don't know anything about "CPU spike cycle," permanent or otherwise.

Nuthin' to say about "debugging."

Other than this I'll let Moonchild defend his browser.

[UCyborg]

My tabs don't "switch." Not sure what you're talking about there.

If by "GUI hangs" you mean 'browser name (not responding),' my Chromium browser does that.

If I switch to another tab when browser is busy with something on the site, sometimes if the switch is timed right, everything becomes unresponsive. But the browser keeps running window message pump, so I don't get the "Not responding" text in the title bar. Pretty much the only thing I can do is move window around or minimize and (un)maximize it. If I close it, the process keeps running.

No idea would if it would happen in fresh profile with everything set to default and no extensions. I can't say I have the motivation to investigate as it's difficult to reproduce, but it happened just enough times recently that it annoyed me. Maybe I could take the memory dump of the process next time it happens, if it would help any developer here?

Don't know anything about "CPU spike cycle," permanent or otherwise.

It's pretty regular conservation topic around here, eg. https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32761.

Other than this I'll let Moonchild defend his browser.

No need. Software generally works best "on developer's own table". Things are less ideal in real life.

Other than that, most people don't see through their biases. It goes both ways. No need to take sides.

[Moonchild]

I'll let Moonchild defend his browser.

Only if there's something that is factual misinformation. Other than that you can decide for yourself whether Pale Moon is a good match for your use or not. If not, then use something that works better. Fighting a fight based on subjective opinions is pointless and a waste of time and energy and I will no longer do that.

[Pelican]

Many years of experience with chromium code leads me to think that it is indeed the best browser out there.

I guess that everyone is entitled to an opinion. So here is mine.

We have been developing browser plugins for nearly 3 decades, long before Chrome was offered as an advertising novelty.

Like PM, Safari and Firefox, Chrome is what we call a Mozilla based web browser and their plugins used the NPAPI, as opposed to Internet Explorer which needed to use ActiveX.

Of all the Mozilla browsers, Chrome was a pain, manly because it had problems complying with WC3 standards (which it fails to properly support today). So for every plugin that we developed we had to make a "special" version just to cater for Chrome's lameness. We then started developing our own web browser, I was dumbfounded when my partner opted to use Chromium. The code base was enormous and it took ages to compile.

But Google eventually won over everyone with their claims that NPAPI and Java were dangerous and that they should be outlawed. So we dumped Chromium and good riddance.

Since catering for all OS including Mac, iOS and Android devices, we have had to develop new browsers for each and web developers come and go. So we are continually interviewing and hiring and one of the first questions we ask is "which browser base do you recommend and which do you have experience with?"

Well most answer "Chromium" including those with no experience whatsoever. And guess what - they are the same, and as stupid as each other because they cannot even read properly - they missed the part about requiring NPAPI support.

Chrome browser is what it is - it hasn't changed much, just more spyware. It is not so popular as it is a convenience - it is shoved into our faces at every waking moment.

[van p]

van p wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 12, 2025 8:51 pm
Many years of experience with chromium code leads me to think that it is indeed the best browser out there.

I did not say that. You need to read my OP very carefully. Pay attention to the quotation marks. Thanks.

[andyprough]

If I switch to another tab when browser is busy with something on the site, sometimes if the switch is timed right, everything becomes unresponsive. But the browser keeps running window message pump, so I don't get the "Not responding" text in the title bar. Pretty much the only thing I can do is move window around or minimize and (un)maximize it. If I close it, the process keeps running.

Never seen anything like it. As you say, it may be that your profile is hosed, or if you are on Windows maybe it's a Windows thing.

[UCyborg]

^^ I've broken other applications with my inputs before. Yesterday I managed to break it with a bit different combination of clicking that I don't remember exactly, guess I went a bit too click frenzy. And the other day, I was working in Google Drive while triggering build and launch of web app at work in Visual Studio. I accidentally left default config in place, which opens its Swagger UI in web browser when it launches, I was left with unusable instance of Pale Moon again. :/

[frostknight]

There is no "best browser" IMO. And Pale Moon has its share of issues too

For me the best web browser is one that does everything I want, without endless amounts of bloat.

For me that is palemoon.

Simple and to the point.

Fighting a fight based on subjective opinions is pointless and a waste of time and energy and I will no longer do that.

Not to mention, its an endless fight if the person your talking to is an arrogant POS.

Chrome browser is what it is - it hasn't changed much, just more spyware. It is not so popular as it is a convenience - it is shoved into our faces at every waking moment.

Ain't that the truth

[UCyborg]

For me the best web browser is one that does everything I want, without endless amounts of bloat.

I haven't found a single one that does everything that I want. And what is your definition of bloat? Redundant features? Stock Chromium doesn't have whole lot of them. Binary size? Well, I can't say I care either way, but I found Chromium pretty efficient on under-resourced hardware.