Linux has over 6% of the desktop market

[frostknight]

i feel the need to make a comment about your quote of linux makes everything difficult

First off, as pointed out that wasn't my quote; I just happen to agree with it
Secondly, you completely missed the meaning of that quote. Neither resource use nor security nor privacy is any less or more difficult in Linux.

Right my bad... you agree with it.

As for the secondly part, if an operating system has a backdoor in it, it is more difficult to have privacy. And proprietary operating systems like windows have backdoors.

I fail to see how I missed the meaning of the quote.

I thought the quote was about other things besides what i wrote, such as user friendliness and compatibility with applications.

Or am I wrong that's what the quote is about?

Curious

Oh as an edit: windows uses more resources in my experience. Yours could be different though.

I don't use very bloated desktop environments, so there's that too.

[Moonchild]

More on topic, I've looked at some logs and took a random period in the past week to get daily active users (seems like we're currently sitting at a little over 600,000 in this random weekday sampling, which will be a minimum only counting those installations active and who have not "locked down" the browser or disabled blocklist updates).
A breakdown:

• Windows 10+11: 90%
• Linux: 4%
• Windows 7: 3%
• Mac: 1%
• Windows 8.1: 1%
• All the rest combined the remaining 1%

(since Windows 10 and 11 both identify as NT 10, my log analyser can't distinguish between 10 and 11)

So... even in our community, where I would expect Linux users to be slightly more prevalent than the market average, the actual percentage of Linux users is only 4%.

[UCyborg]

Makes sense. Linux on desktop seems more of a hobbyist thing.

Regarding resource consumption, Linux isn't much better when trying to get something done. In some areas it's worse due to poor optimization. I/O performance (like copying files) may be better, Unix focused software may run better, but unless these are every day things for someone, there may not be much to gain.

When it comes to websites misbehaving in Pale Moon, another browser is not far away. On the other hand, booting into Windows to run software that doesn't work on Linux is much more involved. Either drop everything to reboot if you have multiple operating systems installed natively or have a virtual machine, which is not easy on resources and far from smooth when it comes to graphics and audio. So if Windows covers every need for someone and Linux doesn't, it makes more sense for Windows to be that person's primary OS.

I recently replaced 2 GB RAM stick with 2x 4 GB sticks in my poor laptop. Linux Mint while running Pale Moon breathes easier now. 32-bit Win10 1809 was still OK in that regard for normal sites. I tried 64-bit Puppy Linux recently, but honestly, the lightweightness is most apparent in disk space footprint. I think Linux being a savior when it comes to old hardware is largely a myth.

Last but not least, any time I bring up deficiencies of Linux version of Pale Moon contrasted to Windows version, there are crickets. So what's the point?

[UCyborg]

Answering my last question, I guess the point is that we do need alternatives.

[Night Wing]

That 4% for people using Linux is not bad at all. In fact, since Pale Moon is considered a "niche browser" compared to Chrome, Edge, Firefox, etc; while running in an operating system which is not Linux, 4% looks real good to me.

How about a similar, but different analogy.

Let's say how many people are using linux Firefox? If a person is running linux Firefox, they will be using a linux distro if that distro uses linux Firefox as their installed default browser. So linux Firefox may be at 90% because of that linux distro.

If that is the case, then one would not expect many users who are using Windows 10 or 11, to have a high percentage rate with their Windows browser visiting that distro's forum. They really don't have any interest in linux Firefox or that particular linux distro to begin with since they are fine using their Windows operating system.

[Night Wing]

Linux on desktop seems more of a hobbyist thing.

So if Windows covers every need for someone and Linux doesn't, it makes more sense for Windows to be that person's primary OS.

Last but not least, any time I bring up deficiencies of Linux version of Pale Moon contrasted to Windows version, there are crickets. So what's the point?

Point 1.

I am not in the camp which thinks Linux on the desktop is more of a hobbyist thing. People like me wanted something which we "liked, wanted and needed". Windows does meet that criteria for me. I'll give you an example. Windows updates are not the best. Windows updates have a bad "track record" for breaking things. And it did break things for me where I had to completely re-install Windows 7.

After what I just described; when I was using Windows 7 and I had more Windows security updates, this gave me a "cringe feeling" if you get my drift. So for me when it came to those Windows security updates after a total re-installation of Windows 7, it came down to "plan for the worst and hope for the best".

Point 2.

To turn your sentence above around. Since Linux covers every need for someone like me and Windows does not, it is "common sense" for me to have a Linux distro as my primary OS.

Point 3.

The deficiencies you describe in linux Pale Moon are because you are a power user and I am not. Those deficiencies you run into or care about, I do not run into them because either I do not comprehend what they are and if I do, I do not care about them.

The point being for people like me. We wanted something which is "not" Windows because Windows screwed us a few times so badly, we got tired of it so we left Windows. Would I return to Windows? I would not and my 13 years of using Linux after Windows 7 makes my case.

In closing.

When linux started to get some traction, we asked Moonchild if he would consider making a linux Pale Moon version. This was back in the Fall of 2013. At that time I was dual booting Windows 7 and Linux Mint 13. He said "no" because he had too much on his plate at that time. But he said if someone wanted to make a linux Pale Moon version, he gave his permission to do so.

There was one person who said he would try and do so. He succeeded. But since he knew I was not a power user and I did not run beta software, he asked me in a private message to "take beta linux Pale Moon for a test drive". I liked using windows Pale Moon so I "bit the bullet" and used beta linux Pale Moon in Linux Mint 13 for the entire month of December 2013.

The only problem I had was "installing" linux Pale Moon because I did not like using the linux Terminal. He gave me detailed instructions over a phone call how to use linux Pale Moon without installing it. This included adding the Pale Moon launcher icon, with the Pale Moon logo, to the path where the extracted Pale Moon folder was in my Thunar file manager.

He figured since I was not a power user and if I liked linux Pale Moon without any problems, anyone could use linux Pale Moon. So in January of 2014, linux Pale Moon was publicly released. And I have been using linux Pale Moon since that time for the last 12 years.

[frostknight]

I recently replaced 2 GB RAM stick with 2x 4 GB sticks in my poor laptop. Linux Mint while running Pale Moon breathes easier now. 32-bit Win10 1809 was still OK in that regard for normal sites. I tried 64-bit Puppy Linux recently, but honestly, the lightweightness is most apparent in disk space footprint. I think Linux being a savior when it comes to old hardware is largely a myth.

Off-topic:
Yeah. uh, this is false. Especially since windows 11 Microsoft decided to deprecate fairly new hardware just to force people to buy new hardware.

Linux runs fine on most hardware especially old hardware. unless it goes too far back like, before 32 bit


Also, if you like thinkpads, they are awesome for linux usually. X200, X230, T430i, T480 T480s, all worked awesome with linux.

The only problems i have had with linux are related to some proprietary blobs.

If you did a poll, for linux users how good is old hardware for linux, i would estimate most would say good, very good or awesome.

Although it does depend also on the quality of the hardware.

I have only ever gotten one hp and one acer laptop.

Acer worked fine, but the HP one, was bad on windows and Linux. A very crappy wifi card or hp screwing up with wifi, not sure which.

If that is the case, then one would not expect many users who are using Windows 10 or 11, to have a high percentage rate with their Windows browser visiting that distro's forum. They really don't have any interest in linux Firefox or that particular linux distro to being with since they are fine using their Windows operating system.

Off-topic:
Why anyone is okay with windows after all the data collection it does is beyond me.

Imagine Hitler having all the data the NSA has because of all this data collection.

That's just a sample of what hell looks like to me.

[andyprough]

More on topic, I've looked at some logs and took a random period in the past week to get daily active users (seems like we're currently sitting at a little over 600,000 in this random weekday sampling, which will be a minimum only counting those installations active and who have not "locked down" the browser or disabled blocklist updates).
A breakdown:

• Windows 10+11: 90%
• Linux: 4%
• Windows 7: 3%
• Mac: 1%
• Windows 8.1: 1%
• All the rest combined the remaining 1%

(since Windows 10 and 11 both identify as NT 10, my log analyser can't distinguish between 10 and 11)

So... even in our community, where I would expect Linux users to be slightly more prevalent than the market average, the actual percentage of Linux users is only 4%.

Sounds about right. As you and I discussed previously in some other thread, GNU/Linux distro users are apparently much more vocal in the forums compared to their percentage share of use. Which makes sense, because they tend to be people who like to hack on the settings and configurations and are likely to have more questions.

Anyway, there is no mass migration of Windows users to GNU/Linux distros, which is the question this thread was intended to explore. As with past Windows upgrade cycles, a few brave souls dip their toes in the Linux-y waters during times like this, cheered on by click-bait headlines from tech news sites, and then most of them will get frightened back to the safety and comfort of Windows 11.

[Moonchild]

Moonchild wrote: ↑
31-10-2025 18:53
Give it a few months.

What did you mean when you said this?

Pretty much this:

As with past Windows upgrade cycles, a few brave souls dip their toes in the Linux-y waters during times like this, cheered on by click-bait headlines from tech news sites, and then most of them will get frightened back to the safety and comfort of Windows 11.

[UCyborg]

Off-topic:
True, though Windows imposing odd system requirements is rather recent phenomenon.

[Mæstro]

More on topic, I've looked at some logs and took a random period in the past week to get daily active users (seems like we're currently sitting at a little over 600,000 in this random weekday sampling, which will be a minimum only counting those installations active and who have not "locked down" the browser or disabled blocklist updates). […]
(since Windows 10 and 11 both identify as NT 10, my log analyser can't distinguish between 10 and 11)
So... even in our community, where I would expect Linux users to be slightly more prevalent than the market average, the actual percentage of Linux users is only 4%.

Thank you for sharing these figures! Seeing that we outnumber Mac in your traffic is expected in itself, simply as official Mac support for this browser is quite recent. Your figures only strengthen my mental picture that being a Linux user today is like being a Mac user in 2006.
Wikipedia gave me the wrong idea that Microsoft chose to increment the NT version number in W11 to 11 also. Less has changed since 2015 than I supposed; I really should keep track of recent Windows instalments through the server versions instead.

I tried 64-bit Puppy Linux recently, but honestly, the lightweightness is most apparent in disk space footprint. I think Linux being a savior when it comes to old hardware is largely a myth.

Information about how lightweight distros actually save resources helps in planning choices about my next distro. I think the way Linux saves old hardware, speaking as somebody for whom it has saved mine, is subtler. This computer is from 2012, and its manual notes that it supports XP and 7. Minding that I preferred in Windows 7 to underclock my processor to 1100 MHz, it should have barely met the requirements for Windows 10. Switching to Debian instead has allowed me to remain on an OS receiving security updates beyond 2020, with about the system load which Windows 7 hitherto placed on it.

GNU/Linux distro users are apparently much more vocal in the forums compared to their percentage share of use. Which makes sense, because they tend to be people who like to hack on the settings and configurations and are likely to have more questions.

This is true for any community with special needs which are ignored by the majority. Left-handers are far more likely to declare ourselves as such than right-handers.

As with past Windows upgrade cycles, a few brave souls dip their toes in the Linux-y waters during times like this, cheered on by click-bait headlines from tech news sites, and then most of them will get frightened back to the safety and comfort of Windows 11.

I was one of these brave souls who ran back a decade ago, when Windows 7 still existed as an actually safe, comfortable refuge. Knowing that i am easily frightened, as I have described earlier, preserving my safety and comfort is vital. I am lucky that, by now, Debian has proven itself just as safe and comfortable as Windows 7 had ever been.

[Moonchild]

I was one of these brave souls who ran back a decade ago, when Windows 7 still existed as an actually safe, comfortable refuge.

There have apparently been quite a few people who went back to Windows 7 from Windows 10 after it EoLed. The rationale being "If I'm going to use an unsupported operating system anyway, I'd rather use one I actually want to use".

[Lucio Chiappetti]

Makes sense. Linux on desktop seems more of a hobbyist thing.

What kind of hobby ?

My experience with computers started with mainframes and minis, for work. Which included also things like text processing, presentations, or later databases (yes, at the time!). The we moved to (proprietary) Unix(es) workstations and finally to Linux because the hardware it ran on was cheaper and it was virtually the same as Unix. I had a short period with a Mac in early 90s because at the time it was the way to run WYSIWYG MS-Word (!). Though later I reverted most to LaTeX and beamer (never felt at ease with Powerpoint, tend to prefer what-you-get-is-what-you-want) ... and when I need Office compatibility I can use libreoffice.

Never had a large exposure to Windows, never found a straight path to learn how to "manage" the system beyond plain user commands (while I learned Unix from a pile of SunOS paper manuals !! and there stiull are the man pages)

[UCyborg]

Hobby when you tinker with an OS, but then use another OS to actually get things done.

Though looking at the larger picture, I guess this article has a point.

[Mæstro]

Hobby when you tinker with an OS, but then use another OS to actually get things done.

Though looking at the larger picture, I guess this article has a point.

Your article is both a decade old and only treats two operating systems, which makes it easy to address. Haiku has been in beta since 2018. Meanwhile, ReactOS has suffered from refusing to admit developers who have even glanced at Windows source code, now that Windows 2000’s and XP’s have been circulating for years. (I understand the legal perils which caused this policy, but this is beside the point.) Nobody, as far as I know, even tries to use Haiku or React as his main operating system, even if the former is presumably stable enough by now that browser monoculture is the only real stumbling block for many laymen. In contrast, there are many stable (not beta) Linux distributions which normal people use every day for a variety of tasks, without having any access to a Windows or Mac computer. Night Wing and I are two such users.

[Night Wing]

I think Linux being a savior when it comes to old hardware is largely a myth.

Somehow I missed this point from you.

You had a bad experience with old hardware. I can understand that. But your experience is different from mine

If you go back to my post to Maestro where I gave the specifications to my backup second desktop tower, that tower is from the year 2013. It has two hard drives in it. Both of those drives are SSD's. Go back and review it.

One SSD is installed with, at the time of this post, 64 bit MX Linux 25 (Infinity) Xfce. No problems with this distro and Pale Moon runs great in it. The second SSD is installed with, at the time of this posting, 64 bit Debian 13.3 (Trixie) Xfce. No problems with it either and Pale Moon runs great in it.

But I have three laptops as well, but only two of them are "old" by today's standards. "Both" of those old laptops are from the year 2012. One laptop is a model dv4-5113cl which at the time of this posting is installed with 64 bit MX Linux 25 (Infinity) Xfce. The second laptop is a model dv4-5113cl and it is also installed with 64 bit MX Linux 25 (Infinity) Xfce.

No problems with either of them and Pale Moon runs great in both of those laptops too since both of them have SSD's in them. So with three laptops running "old" hardware, your myth comment "rings a little hollow" to me if you get my drift. To me, it isn't how old the hardware is. It is about how good the hardware is in them when those laptops were bought in 2012.

I am going to "try" and make another post showing the specifications of those two old laptops with both of them installed with MX Linux 25 (Infinity) Xfce. This will show why those two laptops from the year 2012 are still going strong today in January of 2026. If all goes well, I'll be back "with the proof".

[Night Wing]

I am going to have to be working with two laptops, both bought in 2012, so I will have to do an edit. Hope this works. Right now I am using my HP, dv4-5113cl laptop. The dv4-5113cl originally came installed with Windows 7 and the dv4-5213cl originally came with (ugh!) Windows 8.

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.12.63+deb13-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 14.2.0 clocksource: tsc
    avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.63+deb13-amd64 root=UUID=<filter>
    ro quiet splash
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.48 wm: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 with: xfce4-panel tools:
    avail: xfce4-screensaver vt: 7 dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0 Distro: MX-25_Xfce_x64 Infinity Nov 9 2025
    base: Debian GNU/Linux 13 (trixie)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Pavilion dv4 Notebook PC
    v: 078C110014245110000620100 serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10
    serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 1836 v: 53.3A serial: <superuser required> part-nu: B5W46UA#ABA
    uuid: <superuser required> UEFI-[Legacy]: Insyde v: F.15 date: 05/02/2012
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i5-3210M bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Ivy Bridge gen: core 3 level: v2
    built: 2012-15 process: Intel 22nm family: 6 model-id: 0x3A (58) stepping: 9 microcode: 0x21
  Topology: cpus: 1x dies: 1 clusters: 2 cores: 2 threads: 4 tpc: 2 smt: enabled cache:
    L1: 128 KiB desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 3 MiB desc: 1x3 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1197 min/max: 1200/3100 scaling: driver: intel_cpufreq governor: schedutil
    cores: 1: 1197 2: 1197 3: 1197 4: 1197 bogomips: 19954
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; IBRS_FW; STIBP: conditional; RSB
    filling; PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not affected
  Type: srbds status: Vulnerable: No microcode
  Type: tsa status: Not affected
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
  Type: vmscape mitigation: IBPB before exit to userspace
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel
    arch: Gen-7 process: Intel 22nm built: 2012-13 ports: active: LVDS-1 empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1,VGA-1
    bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0166 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Suyin HP Truevision HD driver: uvcvideo type: USB rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s lanes: 1
    mode: 2.0 bus-ID: 2-1.6:4 chip-ID: 064e:c334 class-ID: 0e02 serial: <filter>
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: crocus gpu: i915 display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1366x768 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 362x204mm (14.25x8.03") s-diag: 416mm (16.36")
  Monitor-1: LVDS-1 model: ChiMei InnoLux 0x1475 built: 2011 res: mode: 1366x768 hz: 60
    scale: 100% (1) dpi: 112 gamma: 1.2 size: 309x174mm (12.17x6.85") diag: 355mm (14") ratio: 16:9
    modes: 1366x768
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: intel crocus platforms: device: 0 drv: crocus device: 1 drv: swrast
    gbm: drv: crocus surfaceless: drv: crocus x11: drv: crocus inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 compat-v: 4.2 vendor: intel mesa v: 25.0.7-2 glx-v: 1.4 direct-render: yes
    renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 4000 (IVB GT2) device-ID: 8086:0166 memory: 1.46 GiB
    unified: yes
  API: Vulkan v: 1.4.309 layers: 3 device: 0 type: integrated-gpu name: Intel HD Graphics 4000
    (IVB GT2) driver: mesa intel v: 25.0.7-2 device-ID: 8086:0166 surfaces: xcb,xlib device: 1
    type: cpu name: llvmpipe (LLVM 19.1.7 256 bits) driver: mesa llvmpipe v: 25.0.7-2 (LLVM 19.1.7)
    device-ID: 10005:0000 surfaces: xcb,xlib
  Info: Tools: api: eglinfo, glxinfo, vulkaninfo de: xfce4-display-settings x11: xdriinfo,
    xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:1e20 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.12.63+deb13-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.4.5 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2230 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel modules: wl pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 8086:0887 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8211/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 2000 bus-ID: 04:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
  Info: services: NetworkManager, nfsd, systemd-networkd, wpa_supplicant
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel Centrino Bluetooth Wireless Transceiver driver: btusb v: 0.8 type: USB rev: 2.0
    speed: 12 Mb/s lanes: 1 mode: 1.1 bus-ID: 2-1.3:3 chip-ID: 8087:07da class-ID: e001
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 4.0 lmp-v: 6 sub-v: fc00
    hci-v: 6 rev: 1ebd class-ID: 6c010c
  Info: acl-mtu: 310:10 sco-mtu: 64:8 link-policy: rswitch hold sniff park
    link-mode: peripheral accept service-classes: rendering, capturing, audio, telephony
RAID:
  Hardware-1: Intel 82801 Mobile SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 port: 3060
    bus-ID: 00:1f.2 chip-ID: 8086:282a rev: N/A class-ID: 0104
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 14.1 GiB (3.0%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s tech: SSD serial: <filter>
    fw-rev: 2B6Q scheme: MBR
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 465.76 GiB size: 457.38 GiB (98.20%) used: 14.1 GiB (3.1%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default) zswap: no
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 4 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 46.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2451 libs: 1310 tools: apt, apt-get, aptitude, nala, synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 0
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main  contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ trixie-security main  contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    3: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates  main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.sources
    1: deb https://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ trixie main non-free
Info:
  Memory: total: 16 GiB available: 15.52 GiB used: 1.28 GiB (8.2%)
  Processes: 229 Power: uptime: 24m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep avail: s2idle
    wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform avail: shutdown, reboot, suspend, test_resume image: 6.15 GiB
    services: upowerd,xfce4-power-manager Init: systemd v: 257 default: graphical tool: systemctl
  Compilers: gcc: 14.2.0 Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.37-release inxi: 3.3.38
Boot Mode: BIOS (legacy, CSM, MBR)

Here is the specifications for my wife's HP, dv4-5213cl laptop.

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.12.63+deb13-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 14.2.0 clocksource: tsc
    avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.63+deb13-amd64 root=UUID=<filter>
    ro quiet splash
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.48 wm: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 with: xfce4-panel tools:
    avail: xfce4-screensaver vt: 7 dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0 Distro: MX-25_Xfce_x64 Infinity Nov 9 2025
    base: Debian GNU/Linux 13 (trixie)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP ENVY dv4 Notebook PC
    v: 0875120014345B10001620120 serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10
    serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 1836 v: 53.3F serial: <superuser required> part-nu: B5W50UA#ABA
    uuid: <superuser required> UEFI: Insyde v: F.22 date: 09/05/2012
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 49.1 Wh (100.0%) condition: 49.1/62.2 Wh (79.0%) volts: 12.5 min: 11.1
    model: PegaTron HS1 type: Li-ion serial: N/A status: full
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i5-3210M bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Ivy Bridge gen: core 3 level: v2
    built: 2012-15 process: Intel 22nm family: 6 model-id: 0x3A (58) stepping: 9 microcode: 0x21
  Topology: cpus: 1x dies: 1 clusters: 2 cores: 2 threads: 4 tpc: 2 smt: enabled cache:
    L1: 128 KiB desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 3 MiB desc: 1x3 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1197 min/max: 1200/3100 scaling: driver: intel_cpufreq governor: schedutil
    cores: 1: 1197 2: 1197 3: 1197 4: 1197 bogomips: 19953
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; IBRS_FW; STIBP: conditional; RSB
    filling; PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not affected
  Type: srbds status: Vulnerable: No microcode
  Type: tsa status: Not affected
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
  Type: vmscape mitigation: IBPB before exit to userspace
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel
    arch: Gen-7 process: Intel 22nm built: 2012-13 ports: active: LVDS-1 empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1,VGA-1
    bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0166 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Cheng Uei Precision Industry (Foxlink) HP Truevision HD driver: uvcvideo type: USB
    rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s lanes: 1 mode: 2.0 bus-ID: 2-1.6:4 chip-ID: 05c8:033a class-ID: 0e02
    serial: <filter>
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: crocus gpu: i915 display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1366x768 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 362x204mm (14.25x8.03") s-diag: 416mm (16.36")
  Monitor-1: LVDS-1 model: AU Optronics 0x303c built: 2011 res: mode: 1366x768 hz: 60
    scale: 100% (1) dpi: 112 gamma: 1.2 size: 309x173mm (12.17x6.81") diag: 354mm (13.9") ratio: 16:9
    modes: 1366x768
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: intel crocus platforms: device: 0 drv: crocus device: 1 drv: swrast
    gbm: drv: crocus surfaceless: drv: crocus x11: drv: crocus inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 compat-v: 4.2 vendor: intel mesa v: 25.0.7-2 glx-v: 1.4 direct-render: yes
    renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 4000 (IVB GT2) device-ID: 8086:0166 memory: 1.46 GiB
    unified: yes
  API: Vulkan v: 1.4.309 layers: 3 device: 0 type: integrated-gpu name: Intel HD Graphics 4000
    (IVB GT2) driver: mesa intel v: 25.0.7-2 device-ID: 8086:0166 surfaces: xcb,xlib device: 1
    type: cpu name: llvmpipe (LLVM 19.1.7 256 bits) driver: mesa llvmpipe v: 25.0.7-2 (LLVM 19.1.7)
    device-ID: 10005:0000 surfaces: xcb,xlib
  Info: Tools: api: eglinfo, glxinfo, vulkaninfo de: xfce4-display-settings x11: xdriinfo,
    xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:1e20 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.12.63+deb13-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.4.5 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2230 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel modules: wl pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 8086:0887 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8211/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 2000 bus-ID: 04:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
  Info: services: NetworkManager, nfsd, systemd-networkd, wpa_supplicant
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel Centrino Bluetooth Wireless Transceiver driver: btusb v: 0.8 type: USB rev: 2.0
    speed: 12 Mb/s lanes: 1 mode: 1.1 bus-ID: 2-1.3:3 chip-ID: 8087:07da class-ID: e001
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 4.0 lmp-v: 6 sub-v: fc00
    hci-v: 6 rev: 1ebd class-ID: 6c010c
  Info: acl-mtu: 310:10 sco-mtu: 64:8 link-policy: rswitch hold sniff park
    link-mode: peripheral accept service-classes: rendering, capturing, audio, telephony
RAID:
  Hardware-1: Intel 82801 Mobile SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 port: 3060
    bus-ID: 00:1f.2 chip-ID: 8086:282a rev: N/A class-ID: 0104
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 14.46 GiB (3.1%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s tech: SSD serial: <filter>
    fw-rev: 2B6Q scheme: MBR
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 465.51 GiB size: 457.13 GiB (98.20%) used: 14.45 GiB (3.2%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 256 MiB size: 252 MiB (98.46%) used: 8.7 MiB (3.5%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default) zswap: no
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 4 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 38.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2449 libs: 1310 tools: apt, apt-get, aptitude, nala, synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 0
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main  contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ trixie-security main  contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    3: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates  main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.sources
    1: deb https://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ trixie main non-free
Info:
  Memory: total: 16 GiB available: 15.52 GiB used: 1017 MiB (6.4%)
  Processes: 251 Power: uptime: 0m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep avail: s2idle wakeups: 0
    hibernate: platform avail: shutdown, reboot, suspend, test_resume image: 6.15 GiB
    services: upowerd,xfce4-power-manager Init: systemd v: 257 default: graphical tool: systemctl
  Compilers: gcc: 14.2.0 Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.37-release inxi: 3.3.38
Boot Mode: UEFI

[frostknight]

There have apparently been quite a few people who went back to Windows 7 from Windows 10 after it EoLed. The rationale being "If I'm going to use an unsupported operating system anyway, I'd rather use one I actually want to use".

Off-topic:
Makes more sense then moving to windows 11 for sure.

their copilot crap makes them less secure than windows 7 probably.

I wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, there is no mass migration of Windows users to GNU/Linux distros, which is the question this thread was intended to explore. As with past Windows upgrade cycles, a few brave souls dip their toes in the Linux-y waters during times like this, cheered on by click-bait headlines from tech news sites, and then most of them will get frightened back to the safety and comfort of Windows 11.

Off-topic:
Stockholm syndrome... thats the only reason people would be willing o use windows 11 given the copilot crap is so unbelievably awful.

every 5 seconds there is a snapshot taken. I cannot imagine how bad i will get.

Over time people will ditch windows more and more. linux will win gradually, by this i mean, it will take an extremely long time probably. People are so stupid, but even as dumb as humanity is, no one wants to be bullied by a corporation.

The only trouble is when people don't realize they are being bullied.

[laki2]

My personal experience with linux has been fantastic. Not had a single machine where it doesn't run properly, and my very latest gen laptop worked after reading like 100 words in a guide someone made (it was freezing up).

Now, when I first started using it, I tried AntiX with a tiling wm as my friend told me to. I found it very hard and just kept on using windows 10 on my main PC. But after trying it again and actually getting used to it, operating and using a computer is now many times as fast as before, not to mention not having any (or very little) telemetry + no annoying updates.

TLDR: try linux and stick with it for a few weeks, once you get used to it there is no going back.

[Night Wing]

As with past Windows upgrade cycles, a few brave souls dip their toes in the Linux-y waters during times like this, cheered on by click-bait headlines from tech news sites, and then most of them will get frightened back to the safety and comfort of Windows 11.

For those people using Windows 10, somehow I do "not" think they equate Windows 11 with "comfort and safety". Windows 11 has many "undesirable" features. Some of those are:

1) Their Windows 10 computer must have a TPM 2.0 chip on the motherboard to install Windows 11. So if their computer does not have this chip, they have to buy a new computer even if their computer is less than 5 years old. This is a cost factor. But this computer without the TPM 2.0 chip will easily run a linux distro.

2) Windows 11 has finally killed the "Local Account" and so people will have to use a Microsoft Account to install it.
3) Windows 11 automatic updates still break things frequently.
4) Windows 11 now has lots of ads in it so it has become an advertising platform. Users do not want ads.
5) Windows 11 is also a data mining platform also because of CoPilot and Recall.
6) If users of Windows 11 want to un-install CoPilot and Recall, they cannot.
7) If users disable some things in Windows 11, after every Windows 11 updates, they will have to re-check things they have disabled to see if they are still disabled. This is a trust factor.

If a person could use and like Windows 7, then they can use a linux distro like Mint with Xfce. It would not take them very long to use and like Mint. Linux is not hard to learn. If one is not a power user in Windows and does not need a specific Windows application like Office 365, Linux is good choice.

But if they are "married" to a specific Windows application as a "must have" application like Office 365 and do not want a "divorce", then they should stay with Windows......and "suffer the fire lit torches, pitchforks, slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" which is what Windows 11 is.

Linux has had a very low market share for "decades" as in less than 1%. But the rise of Windows 11 has changed that. And this change for Linux market share wise started with the release of Windows 11 in October of 2021. Since that time, Linux market share is now close to or at 5%. Games did not run well in Linux, but they do now.

If people who play games on a Windows machine want to have a linux gaming computer, the distros of CachyOS and Bazzite should meet their gaming needs. The "mom and pop" types who come into the computer repair shop where I volunteer, lots of them have played with the demo computers in our small showroom installed with the distros of Mint, MX Linux and Debian.

And of this date and time, 75% of them have left Windows 11 and come on over to the "Dark Side" (reference to Darth Vader) of Linux because they mostly surf the web, store pictures, store music, do email, do social media, etc. No power user "stuff".