Linux Waterfox Browser Has Bugs/Errors In It

[frostknight]

Reminds me of Windows 7 and Windows 8 when turning off computers. Windows 7 took two steps (Start Menu, Shut Down) whereas Windows 8 took four steps (Charms Bar, Settings, Power, Shut Down).

Maybe Alex is taking a page from Microsoft's playbook.

I tend to doubt that.

I think its incompetence more than anything. Aka, Alex's errors. I think he needs either more help, or firefox has become a huge monolithic monster---

Wait no, that is the problem...

Where as microsoft, rarely does anything out of *JUST* sheer incompetence.

They have some weird idea about how they dominate the market so much, that most people cannot deny them.

Pretty sure if some massive malware destroyed enough of their hardware across the world, even corporations would dump them in a pile. Once corporations don't support you, if enough other people detest you, there can be no doubt you will be forgotten or dealt with. This would be a massive understatement for microsoft.

Of course they, *the corporations* would also get to work on making a replacement that is similarly bad as them... but yeah.

Final edit done!

[Blacklab]

Off-topic:
Hmm... you lot on Linux OS' can count yourselves lucky At least Waterfox G6 'bugs and all' actually installs on Linux!

Used to run Waterfox on old Windows 7 machine here until this morning (Mon). It had a few odd bugs, mostly in Settings, but ran ok. Got the notification to upgrade from Waterfox G5.1.13 to G6.0.2 (which seemed slightly odd since G6.0.3 is already out?). Anyway the update failed to finish installing = no more Waterfox. Sigh.

And since... every other totally 'clean slate' and careful re-install attempt using any version of G6 has failed. Of course G5.1.13 happily reinstalls itself no problems ... but letting that update to G6.0.2... or running a G6.0.2 or G6.0.3 over-the-top fails to complete just as it did first time round.

This is an admittedly ancient Intel Core2 Duo T5550 Dell laptop but has the joyous Win7 Frutiger Aero UI. But hey!... it is running latest Firefox ESR 115.3.1 very happily. So had naively assumed Waterfox G6 series, supposedly also based on ESR 115, would run too? Maybe I got that wrong... or there's some other processor requirement not very evident from Waterfox's own download page G6.0.3 minimum system requirements?

Another try tomorrow with clean G6 reinstall... offline with no AV... not exactly hopeful.

[Night Wing]

Off-topic:
@ Blacklab

If Watefox is giving you problems, try the Mercury browser. It is similar to Waterfox and Firefox in the way it looks feels and acts. With linux Waterfox having problems and changing things not for the better (in my opinion), Watefox used to be my backup for linux Pale Moon.

Now, linux Mercury is my backup browser to linux Pale Moon. Mercury runs in Windows too. And it runs the same extensions and themes Firefox uses. The link to the windows Mercury installer is below. Take it for a test drive and see if you like it.

https://github.com/Alex313031/Mercury/releases

[BenFenner]

I needed a new backup browser for linux Pale Moon so I chose the linux Mercury browser, version115.3.0esr since there are no bugs in it...

(Emphasis mine.)

You don't actually believe that, right?

[Moonchild]

or there's some other processor requirement not very evident from Waterfox's own download page G6.0.3 minimum system requirements?

If they want a Core 2 or AMD FX, I'm thinking they are building with SSE 4.1 requirements?

[Night Wing]

I needed a new backup browser for linux Pale Moon so I chose the linux Mercury browser, version115.3.0esr since there are no bugs in it...

(Emphasis mine.)

You don't actually believe that, right?

The "bugs" I am alluding to have to do with the way Waterfox first butchered how the tabs worked with regards to the Bookmarks Toolbar by not adhering to the default settings for tabs in version (G6.0). At least that was fixed with the release of version G6.0.1 for linux Waterfox.

But the way the tarball has been changed to the extraction for the named "waterfox" folder where the named folder is not named upon extraction...........has not been fixed unless the new way is going to be the default way from here on out since version 6.0.3 has now been released.

Since I do not install linux Pale Moon, Mercury or Waterfox in linux Mint or MX Linux, it takes me three more extra steps from my usual steps to install the launcher icon for Waterfox where I change the launcher icon to the Watefox logo and finally the path to the launcher icon.

To make my point, both linux Pale Moon and linux Mercury handle the extracted named folder for their browsers correctly when dealing with their tarballs.

Deviating from the old way and adding more steps for the new way when dealing with the Waterfox tarball.....is not an improvement in my opinion. I would call it a "regression" and I am not going to change my view on this.

I could give you more examples of the "old way" if you want. This would deal with the tarball which gives the extracted named folder correctly for changing the Bibata cursor from a "black or white" color which is the default colors for this cursor in both Mint and MX Linux, to an "amber" color which I now use in both Mint and MX Linux.

It seems to me Alex is intentionally deviating from the old way to the new way "just for the sake of change". To my knowledge, no one else in linux is doing it his way when it comes to their tarballs.

To repeat my analogy in my previous post, when Microsoft went way overboard from Windows 7 to Windows 8 when shutting down the operating system. More extra steps to shut down Windows 8 when those steps were "not needed, not liked and definitely not wanted".

[andyprough]

Deviating from the old way and adding more steps for the new way when dealing with the Waterfox tarball.....is not an improvement in my opinion. I would call it a "regression" and I am not going to change my view on this.

I submitted a bug report on Waterfox's github site on this issue: https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/issues/3197

Let me know if I wrote anything improperly - I can edit the bug report if needed.

[Basilisk-Dev]

Let me know if I wrote anything improperly - I can edit the bug report if needed.

Change site impaired to sight impaired

[andyprough]

Change site impaired to sight impaired

Good point!

Done.

[Night Wing]

I submitted a bug report on Waterfox's github site on this issue: https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/issues/3197

Let me know if I wrote anything improperly - I can edit the bug report if needed.

Thanks. I am not a registered member of GitHub so I cannot submit a bug report. My problem is, I don't know if what Alex is doing now is the way he wants to do it.

Like I said, when I downloaded the G6.0 linux tarball for Waterfox, when clicking on "Extract Here", one gets many sub folders and individual programs which makes up the linux Waterfox browser. But not the name of the folder which is "waterfox" (without the quote marks). Still is happening in the G6.0.3 tarball.

The old way since it's inception for linux Waterfox which includes all the series up to and including the G5 series; when the linux tarball was downloaded, right clicked on and then left clicked on "Extract Here", the folder which was extracted was named correctly, "waterfox" (without the quote marks). Not all the folders and programs which make up the linux Waterfox browser.

Examples below.

Extract the folder from the Pale Moon tarball and the folder which is extracted is correctly named, "palemoon" (without the quote marks). Mercury tarball and the extracted folder is correctly named, "mercury" (without the quote marks). SeaLion tarball and the extracted folder is correctly named, "sealion" (without the quote marks). THIS is the CORRECT way.

By extracting all the sub folders and programs from the tarball which makes up linux Watefox, but not extracting the main "watefox" (without the quote marks) named folder, THIS is the INCORRECT way.

It just seems to me Alex is trying to "re-invent the wheel" when there is no need to. I cannot believe linux Waterfox power users would agree to his new way because it seems to me his new way is the default now.

Jumping through hoops to make unnecessary work for me is not going to endear me to use linux Waterfox very much. Since the linux Mercury browser "gets it right" in the above, it has EARNED it's place to be my backup browser to linux Pale Moon.

If you think I'm making a "mountain out of a mole hill", I have six linux hard drives with all of the above browsers being used in Mint and MX Linux. I do not need any extra work for one browser when dealing with six hard drives.

But I do have one reservation about the Mercury browser. Waterfox is built by a person named "Alex". The Mercury browser is built by a person with the SAME first name of "Alex". I just hope the person named "Alex" which builds Mercury is NOT the same person named "Alex" which builds Waterfox.

[andyprough]

If you think I'm making a "mountain out of a mole hill

No, it's a legitimate concern that you've raised, we always need to be aware of how there can be accessibility issues for people with vision impairment and other issues.

My father is legally blind but continued to teach MBA classes online well into his 70s. I recall many many times where he had his face nearly pressed into the computer monitor trying to read something with his limited sight. We always should be mindful of people who use our software - someday that could be me, or Alex the Waterfox Dev.

[andyprough]

I just hope the person named "Alex" which builds Mercury is NOT the same person named "Alex" which builds Waterfox.

Well, Alex just responded to the bug report and said he'll fix it:

MrAlex94 commented Oct 3, 2023

Hi,
Sorry about that! I'll look into it and get it remedied ASAP.

https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/ ... 1745534364

[Night Wing]

Well, Alex just responded to the bug report and said he'll fix it:

Thanks for relaying my complaint/concerns to Alex on this particular point of contention. It is much appreciated by me you did that. I'll be looking forward to the fix.

If it happens and I hope it does, then I will again make linux Waterfox the backup browser to my linux Pale Moon browser.

Again, thanks for your personal help in this matter.

[athenian200]

Well, Alex just responded to the bug report and said he'll fix it:

MrAlex94 commented Oct 3, 2023

Hi,
Sorry about that! I'll look into it and get it remedied ASAP.

That's interesting that your version of the bug got such a quick reply. I thought of starting a bug for it too, but I checked and there already was one...

https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/issues/3172

However, it seems like this didn't get much attention, possibly because the accessibility issue wasn't highlighted and the OP's first language didn't seem to be English. Either way, it looks like this was likely not intentional behavior, and they managed to miss the first bug report on it. I guess with Waterfox, making noise gets things done...

Off-topic:
I wonder if that's why people in the past thought that bringing up the same issue multiple times would work on us when we were hitting roadblocks, that we were oblivious, just not noticing things, and needed reminders to pay attention like some of these other developers? I'm starting to see why people think that just being loud and repeating yourself works, given how some projects operate.

[andyprough]

That's interesting that your version of the bug got such a quick reply. I thought of starting a bug for it too, but I checked and there already was one

Oh, I looked a couple of times but I missed that one. That's weird. I would have just added onto it. Github issues are somehow very messy and hard for me to read through a list of them. I guess you are right though that by making it an 'accessibility issue' I probably got some attention for it.

What I don't understand is the comment below that post:

extracted directly in /usr/lib64, messing up my existing libraries

Why in the world would someone unpack a tarball there? Maybe the person was just trying to be humorous.

Edit: Also, I ticked the "I have tested this on Firefox" box in my bug report, whereas this person did not. On some bug trackers if you don't tick all the right boxes no one will ever look at your report.

[frostknight]

Off-topic:
@ Blacklab

If Watefox is giving you problems, try the Mercury browser. It is similar to Waterfox and Firefox in the way it looks feels and acts. With linux Waterfox having problems and changing things not for the better (in my opinion), Watefox used to be my backup for linux Pale Moon.

Now, linux Mercury is my backup browser to linux Pale Moon. Mercury runs in Windows too. And it runs the same extensions and themes Firefox uses. The link to the windows Mercury installer is below. Take it for a test drive and see if you like it.

https://github.com/Alex313031/Mercury/releases

I was going to say, if you was using linux, I would have said librewolf. But given you use windows, that does make some sense.

[Night Wing]

Off-topic:
@ frostknight

I have used linux Librewolf. It has one "main" shortcoming which sticks out like a very swollen sore thumb.

I have a few email accounts. One of those accounts is Hotmail. Linux Librewolf does not render Hotmail properly. After I gave my username and password, Librewolf gave me a "Hotmail Lite" version with many missing features specifically dealing with my folders I have in Hotmail.

Speaking just for myself, Hotmail Lite is nothing more than a stripped down version of Hotmail which does not work for me at all when I used linux Librewolf. This is the reason I no longer use linux Librewolf and deleted it both the Mint and MX Linux distros.

[frostknight]

Off-topic:
@ frostknight

I have used linux Librewolf. It has one "main" shortcoming which sticks out like a very swollen sore thumb.

I have a few email accounts. One of those accounts is Hotmail. Linux Librewolf does not render Hotmail properly. After I gave my username and password, Librewolf gave me a "Hotmail Lite" version with many missing features specifically dealing with my folders I have in Hotmail.

Speaking just for myself, Hotmail Lite is nothing more than a stripped down version of Hotmail which does not work for me at all when I used linux Librewolf. This is the reason I no longer use linux Librewolf and deleted it both the Mint and MX Linux distros.

Ahh, gotcha. that might be why I don't have an issue with librewolf when I have used it. Beyond the ugly UI anyways...

I typically avoid prism email accounts. Google, yahoo, microsoft, apple and other centralized. Disroot is one of the email accounts I use. It's way bettter in this essence.

Although, I also usually use an email client to get my emails, so there's that.

[athenian200]

So, there's an update on your issue:

https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/ ... 1749167952

They say it's going to be fixed in G6.0.4. I looked at what the fix was, and it turned out they had started relying on brand-new GitHub automation tooling to create the Linux tarballs. They made a one character mistake, and since the tarballs are generated automatically (rather than as part of the build process) they probably didn't notice that the extraction was incorrect. I'm not sure what OS Alex runs, but I would guess it isn't Linux or he would have caught this sooner.

This should illustrate the danger of relying on automated tooling, though. It means you never check the packaging you create in real time, and won't catch errors that would be obvious to anyone building it on that OS.

[Night Wing]

So, there's an update on your issue:

https://github.com/WaterfoxCo/Waterfox/ ... 1749167952

They say it's going to be fixed in G6.0.4. I looked at what the fix was, and it turned out they had started relying on brand-new GitHub automation tooling to create the Linux tarballs. They made a one character mistake, and since the tarballs are generated automatically (rather than as part of the build process) they probably didn't notice that the extraction was incorrect. I'm not sure what OS Alex runs, but I would guess it isn't Linux or he would have caught this sooner.

Thanks for the update on GitHub. I will be on the look out for linux Waterfox G6.0.4 "daily" from here on out since I do manual updating for linux Waterfox.