Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

General project discussion.
Use this as a last resort if your topic does not fit in any of the other boards but it still on-topic.
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This General Discussion board is meant for topics that are still relevant to Pale Moon, web browsers, browser tech, UXP applications, and related, but don't have a more fitting board available.

Please stick to the relevance of this forum here, which focuses on everything around the Pale Moon project and its user community. "Random" subjects don't belong here, and should be posted in the Off-Topic board.
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somdcomputerguy
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2023-01-16, 15:24

freedom4all wrote:
2023-01-16, 00:18
I was referring to Wix sites giving me the idea to open up this discussion here.
Oops. ;)
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by freedom4all » 2023-01-17, 05:35

Moonchild wrote:
2023-01-16, 11:42
Still nothing compared to the subversion under the label "safety and security"
at least you still have your privacy /s

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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by Tharthan » 2023-01-21, 22:18

Moonchild wrote:
2023-01-15, 20:05
Off-topic:
P.S.: "enjoy a better online experience" with Chrome? How do they determine what my online experience would be like by using a piece of resource-hogging telemetry-laden software? XD
Off-topic:
That's what I thought when I saw that, too.

It's interesting that more and more of these brick-wall browser blocks now don't even make the usually mistaken claim that one's browser is outdated or not technically capable of viewing the site. A lot of them now just say that one's browser is not supported, and then they make some claim that you as a user are unable to have an enjoyable online experience unless you were to use their preferred browser (almost always Google Chrome).

It's basically now

"Hello, user.

Our analysis: your browser is boring and uncool.

Switch to what we use in order to have a good time. Kthx."
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2023-01-21, 23:45

FWIW, I changed the campaign graphic I use on my site. My site wasn't ever 'any browser unfriendly', it's mainly a personal site and I only use a few J/S lines in it. The image gallery script, while mostly PHP, does use some J/S that has never interfered with Pale Moon or any other non-chromed browser.
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-01-23, 01:34

Trouble is I don't think there's anything besides Pale Moon that qualifies as 'non Chromy' these days. Obviously I'm not counting Lynx and other pure text browsers.
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2023-01-23, 01:52

I'm almost completely certain that my friends and family use Edge, Chrome, or Firefox. I just have a little glimmer of hope that the image will catch somebodies eye and ask me what the heck I mean by 'non-chromy'. :coffee:
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by BenFenner » 2023-01-23, 02:50

moonbat wrote:
2023-01-23, 01:34
Trouble is I don't think there's anything besides Pale Moon that qualifies as 'non Chromy' these days. Obviously I'm not counting Lynx and other pure text browsers.
Gecko browsers would also qualify as non-Blinky.

I've been taking to report problems with web sites in the context of standards-compliant browsers versus experimental browsers. I am now reporting to them that they are using experimental features, and implore them to support standards compliant browsers as well.
When they inevitably ask for clarification, I've sent this along:
At the risk of over-explaining, browsers can roughly be classified into 3 categories with regard to standards-compliance.

1) Legacy
2) Standards-Compliant
3) Experimental

Legacy browsers have fallen behind current web standards, and lack some or many standardized features. They may be unsupported, or poorly supported, or purposefully limited in their scope of features.

Examples:
Lynx
Netscape Navigator
Internet Explorer (the most notorious experimental browser from the past)


Standards-Compliant browsers implement all (or nearly so) current web standards, but do not (typically by design) implement experimental features, draft features, draft-spec features, draft-standards features or similar. Or if they do implement them, they are turned off by default, forcing users to turn them on if they wish.

Examples:
Pale Moon
White Star
Basilisk

Experimental browsers often implement all (or nearly so) current web standards, but also implement experimental features, draft features, draft-spec features, draft-standards features or similar--and importantly these experimental features are turned on by default, often with no way to turn them off.

Examples:
Anything using the Blink experimental rendering engine--Chromium, Chrome, Safari, MS Edge, Opera, Vavaldi, Brave, and others.
Anything using the Gecko experimental rendering engine--Firefox, Iceweasel, SeaMonkey, and many derivatives.
It know this could use some work. I'd LOVE for additional examples for either column.

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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-01-23, 03:07

BenFenner wrote:
2023-01-23, 02:50
Gecko browsers would also qualify as non-Blinky.
Hardly, under current Mozilla stewardship they would classify as 'trying so hard to be Blink that they may as well shut down'. Every browser that relies on Gecko today is walking the same doomed path as Firefox itself, merely stripping out the telemetry doesn't make them any less shittier to use. At least Brave and Vivaldi and a few other Blink browsers actually add additional functionality; Librewolf etc are just 'Firefox minus telemetry and bloat'.
Seamonkey lost their opportunity to collaborate with Moonchild back in the day to port over to Goanna thanks to their own hubris and are now stuck with the increasing divergence between current Gecko and their codebase.
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by Tharthan » 2023-01-23, 13:41

moonbat wrote:
2023-01-23, 03:07
Seamonkey lost their opportunity to collaborate with Moonchild back in the day to port over to Goanna thanks to their own hubris and are now stuck with the increasing divergence between current Gecko and their codebase.
Off-topic:
If Seamonkey developers came to Moonchild and apologised for how shabbily at least one of them (if I recall correctly. Maybe the person that I am thinking of wasn't a Seamonkey developer, but instead someone at Mozilla who was not part of the Seamonkey team) treated The Pale Moon Team and the existence of Pale Moon in the past, would Moonchild reconsider some level of collaboration, or at least some level of cooperation?

I am just curious.
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Re: Pale Moon & the AnyBrowser campaign

Unread post by Moonchild » 2023-01-23, 14:00

Off-topic:
Tharthan wrote:
2023-01-23, 13:41
If Seamonkey developers came to Moonchild and apologised ... would Moonchild reconsider some level of collaboration, or at least some level of cooperation?
I wouldn't mind collaboration/cooperation, but I really think that the SM team is much too set in their ways to consider the different approaches that would be required, from what I understood of past communication, i.e. I am not sure if there is enough common ground here, especially with how SM has been focusing on trying to chip away at their application to make it somehow fit on Mozilla-central code that no longer considers other uses than the Firefox Browser... So I do think they ended up "between the quay and the ship".
I'm open to discussion of options, though, as long as it is civil and genuine for meeting somewhere in the middle.
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