So PM is better in Linux for me
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Please stick to the relevance of this forum here, which focuses on everything around the Pale Moon project and its user community. "Random" subjects don't belong here, and should be posted in the Off-Topic board.
So PM is better in Linux for me
Just tried Pale Moon on Linux Mint, and it is much better than the Windows version in loading everything . I just install LM on my laptop, and adding Stevepusser gtk3 PPA. Im not familiar with Linux program system (like the package manager), so I just add the GTk2 and gtk3 ppa.
Btw which one would be better, gtk2 or gtk3? I don't even know what that mean
Btw which one would be better, gtk2 or gtk3? I don't even know what that mean
Debian 12 Bookworm - KDE Plasma 5.27
Intel Celeron N5100 - 4 gigs of RAM - 256 gigs of SSD
I can barely speak english, so bear that in mind when talking to me
Intel Celeron N5100 - 4 gigs of RAM - 256 gigs of SSD
I can barely speak english, so bear that in mind when talking to me
- athenian200
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
They're about the same, honestly.
The main difference you'll notice is that if you're using an old GTK2 theme, the GTK2 version of PM looks better. If you're using a GTK3 theme, the GTK3 version of PM looks a little better. It really depends on your desktop environment and what theme you picked, basically.
The main difference you'll notice is that if you're using an old GTK2 theme, the GTK2 version of PM looks better. If you're using a GTK3 theme, the GTK3 version of PM looks a little better. It really depends on your desktop environment and what theme you picked, basically.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind
Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
You are probably better off using the GTK3 version.
It doesn't change anything for the browser itself, but under certain situations, one of them being described by athenian200, the GTK2 version might have issues.
It doesn't change anything for the browser itself, but under certain situations, one of them being described by athenian200, the GTK2 version might have issues.
- Night Wing
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
I've always used GTK2 for years and years with linux Pale Moon in linux Mint. Never had a problem with linux Pale Moon with GTK2.
Since I just picked up an old (circa 2016) 15" Dell laptop (i7 processor with a 2.50 processor speed, 16 GB of ram memory), I forget the model at this time, Mint 21 should be ready for public release around July 7th (in my opinion). Just before I install Mint 21, I will put the newest linux Pale Moon on the Dell which is running Mint 20.3 and try out GTK3.
This way if I don't care for GTK3, I will use GTK2 on Mint 21since I always do a new install and not an overwrite of (20.3).
Since I just picked up an old (circa 2016) 15" Dell laptop (i7 processor with a 2.50 processor speed, 16 GB of ram memory), I forget the model at this time, Mint 21 should be ready for public release around July 7th (in my opinion). Just before I install Mint 21, I will put the newest linux Pale Moon on the Dell which is running Mint 20.3 and try out GTK3.
This way if I don't care for GTK3, I will use GTK2 on Mint 21since I always do a new install and not an overwrite of (20.3).
Linux Mint 21.3 (Virginia) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
MX Linux 23.2 (Libretto) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Linux Debian 12.5 (Bookworm) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
MX Linux 23.2 (Libretto) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Linux Debian 12.5 (Bookworm) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
Aside from styling, difference is in compatibility with NPAPI plugins. Many of them are compiled for GTK2 and won't work on GTK3 Pale Moon build.
- distantpluto
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
Personally, it's down to aesthetics. I don't use a DE, just roll my own and GTK3 looks hideous (yes I've tried all the themes). I install GTK2 versions of everything where possible. Admittedly it's getting harder but Pale Moon is one of the delights.
Pale Moon and Epyrus on Arch Linux.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
I don't use a DE myself (I run fvwm window manager) and use the GTK2 version because it's the only one I can easily control the background colour and font of the buttons (for the rest I use the default theme). There should be tracks on the forum of a thread about this started from a question of mine.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (G.B. Shaw)
- Night Wing
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
Below is just 'food for thought" and I'm really shooting in the dark since I'm not a power user in linux and I could be way off base on this.
Isn't GTK2 getting kind of old? Lots of linux distros are fine with GTK3 and (I think) Mint is one of them.
Isn't GTK2 getting kind of old? Lots of linux distros are fine with GTK3 and (I think) Mint is one of them.
Linux Mint 21.3 (Virginia) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
MX Linux 23.2 (Libretto) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Linux Debian 12.5 (Bookworm) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
MX Linux 23.2 (Libretto) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Linux Debian 12.5 (Bookworm) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
- athenian200
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
It is. In fact, technically GTK4 is already out. GTK3 is considered the "stable" version at this point. Then again, older GUI frameworks have historically lingered around... there's still some ancient applications out there using Motif that everyone complains about, and that's even older. I imagine GTK2 could become the new Motif at some point. Something that people grudgingly keep around to compile older applications and bugfix if they have to, but otherwise don't want to touch.Night Wing wrote: ↑2022-06-25, 21:42Isn't GTK2 getting kind of old? Lots of linux distros are fine with GTK3 and (I think) Mint is one of them.
I suspect the real pain will come if Wayland is universally adopted by Linux distros and X11 backwards compatibility is dropped. That would make it harder to run anything except one of the major DEs and their compositor. But as long as X11 is still a thing on Linux (even if only as a compatibility layer on top of Wayland), I imagine GTK2 will continue to exist as well.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind
Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
Wayland is one of the issues I talked about.
Strictly speaking there is XWayland, but compared to to an actual X server is rather inferior.
In fact, looking at it after all these years Wayland isn't that great compared to X; the real advantage is removing some middleware, but it's not really enough to carry the rest of the features.
I'm a bit sad about it, because I had great expectations for it when it was getting rolled out on distros.
Strictly speaking there is XWayland, but compared to to an actual X server is rather inferior.
In fact, looking at it after all these years Wayland isn't that great compared to X; the real advantage is removing some middleware, but it's not really enough to carry the rest of the features.
I'm a bit sad about it, because I had great expectations for it when it was getting rolled out on distros.
Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
If they hadn't made such a mess of Wayland by trying to be "new and cool" and breaking with X11 in ways nobody was ready for, it might have seen a much smoother adoption.
But as it is, people are simply not wanting to take 1 step forward and 3 steps back in terms of usability.
But as it is, people are simply not wanting to take 1 step forward and 3 steps back in terms of usability.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
As someone who have experienced Pale Moon from version 26 to 31 on Windows, 31 uses much less CPU, RAM than previous versions even with many addons installed and enabled. Dunno why but usually after a 24h browsing session, previous Pale Moons usually reach 1.2GB to 2.4GB RAM, but version 31 only reached 300-600MB so far, and idle CPU usually in range 0%-15%, ofc some websites like Live Mail still cause massive problem but I just open them in Thunderbird instead.
- andyprough
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
With Live Mail I've found that I have to have the User Agent mode set as "Firefox Compatibility". Hope that helps. Otherwise Live Mail should work well - open a Live Mail thread if you continue having trouble and maybe we can help.jangdonggun1234 wrote: ↑2022-06-26, 07:17ofc some websites like Live Mail still cause massive problem but I just open them in Thunderbird instead
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- Moonbather
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
At least it takes a few steps forward in terms of security and it fixes my issues with screen tearing. The only issue I've had is my mouse cursor being inconsistent across applications and almost impossible to change, but I did it by changing some system files and all works well now.Moonchild wrote: ↑2022-06-25, 22:55If they hadn't made such a mess of Wayland by trying to be "new and cool" and breaking with X11 in ways nobody was ready for, it might have seen a much smoother adoption.
But as it is, people are simply not wanting to take 1 step forward and 3 steps back in terms of usability.
Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
leothetechguy wrote: ↑2022-06-27, 11:15At least it takes a few steps forward in terms of security and it fixes my issues with screen tearing. The only issue I've had is my mouse cursor being inconsistent across applications and almost impossible to change, but I did it by changing some system files and all works well now.
Off-topic:
One step forward,two multiple steps back. More than 10 years passed, and it is nowhere near stable daily driver state. But wow, tearing is fixed. In this time they could refactor xorg into maintainable state(if it isn't) and roll out X12(if issues with X11 is so severe as they tell, which i doubt), but no, lets invent the wheel again...
Sigh...
One step forward,
Sigh...
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- Moonbather
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me
Off-topic:
I'm just saying that it works well for me and I can use it as a usable daily driver, feel free to share your experience, but don't just make claims about it being unusable for everyone and quote me with a sarcasm tag. Waylands changes over Xorg, like combining display server and compositor (Why would you run an extra compositor if Xorg already displays something) and isolating inputs between clients make a lot of sense to me, nothing that makes it inherently worse than Xorg. (other than stopping inactive windows from detecting key presses)
I'm just saying that it works well for me and I can use it as a usable daily driver, feel free to share your experience, but don't just make claims about it being unusable for everyone and quote me with a sarcasm tag. Waylands changes over Xorg, like combining display server and compositor (Why would you run an extra compositor if Xorg already displays something) and isolating inputs between clients make a lot of sense to me, nothing that makes it inherently worse than Xorg. (other than stopping inactive windows from detecting key presses)