What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 00:25

Off-topic:
Night Wing wrote:
2022-04-04, 18:46
Linux Pale Moon as well as linux Waterfox are "not installed" either. I run both Pale Moon and Waterfox the same way as I do LibreWolf.
Question for my own LInux Mint use - where on your system do you put Pale Moon's program folder?
Night Wing wrote:
2022-04-04, 18:46
Because if I want to install all three of these browsers, I would have to use the linux Terminal to install them and I'm no fan of the linux Terminal. For me, the less I use the Terminal in linux, the better it is for me.
I'm kind of similar, except that I actually know how to use the terminal - I'm not just very skilled at it and do not remember commands very well but remember GUI locations and processes very easily.

So protip: if you know how to read terminal commands and understand what it's saying, then you can actually properly install Pale Moon completely through the GUI; in particular, the following is what you would add to 'Additional Repositories" in "Software Sources":

Code: Select all

deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/stevenpusser/xUbuntu_20.04/ /
...that being said, I've not been able to "decode" the following terminal command correctly to add the key via the "Software Sources" GUI, forcing me to still use the terminal for this step (any insight into the matter would be appreciated!):

Code: Select all

curl -fsSL https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:stevenpusser/xUbuntu_20.04/Release.key | gpg --dearmor | sudo tee /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/home_stevenpusser.gpg > /dev/null
But after that, you simply just need to search for "palemoon" (without quotes) in the Synaptic Package Manager and install it like normal.

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by ron_1 » 2022-04-05, 00:41

Off-topic:
__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:25
Question for my own LInux Mint use - where on your system do you put Pale Moon's program folder?
I know you are asking Night Wing, but I'll give an answer also. I don't install also. I just extract the palemoon folder to /home/ron/Templates. Why Templates folder? Why not? :)

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 00:55

I'll be honest, you might find more like-minded individuals outside of the usual web-dev tech-space, e.g. people that haven't "drank the Google kool-aid" - especially those that aren't even "techies" at all (or are more hardware focused like myself am).

In other words, the kind of people that hold suspicion towards "big tech" as a whole (and I don't mean the type suspicious of technology itself as a whole, though they certainly can "get it" as well but may have a tendency to be a bit too all-encompassing and "throw out the baby with the bathwater").

At least in the hardware space you can definitely find these kinds of people to be the ones suspicious of the likes of Intel ME, AMD PSP, and Microsoft Pluton (this forum thread on Phoronix is a particularly shining example of such people).

hujan86 wrote:
2022-04-03, 05:02
But whenever I want to browse sites like DeviantArt or Pixiv...I'll temporarily switch to LibreWolf.
pixiv I can understand since they require webcomponents as of a week ago (though even Pale Moon's half-baked implementation hidden behind an about:config flag seems to work fine for pixiv?), but I'm not sure I ever really had any issues with DeviantArt outside of some wacky commenting issues that didn't seem to be present anymore when I tried it sometime around the spring equinox (this was a week before pixiv started requiring webcomponents, so I still had webcomponents disabled at the time).

Off-topic:
ron_1 wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:41
I know you are asking Night Wing, but I'll give an answer also. I don't install also. I just extract the palemoon folder to /home/ron/Templates. Why Templates folder? Why not? :)
It's fine for you to respond as I also have used it from the /home folder; I was basically just trying to see if there was any other location that it could work correctly from since I was once told by a more skilled LInux user that simply running it from /home isn't a great idea security-wise... but I've kept doing it since I didn't really know of another option at the time - I'm not sure if Steve Pusser's builds were available back in 2017.

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by Night Wing » 2022-04-05, 02:16

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:25
Off-topic:
Night Wing wrote:
2022-04-04, 18:46
Linux Pale Moon as well as linux Waterfox are "not installed" either. I run both Pale Moon and Waterfox the same way as I do LibreWolf.
Question for my own LInux Mint use - where on your system do you put Pale Moon's program folder?
Off-topic:
I download the linux Pale Moon tarball to my Desktop. Then I extract the Pale Moon folder to the Desktop. Then I open my Thunar file manger in Mint Xfce and drag the program folder to the Documents folder in Thunar. Then I just create the path for the launcher icon to the Pale Moon program folder in Documents. Then I create the Pale Moon logo launcher icon, via the Image Files in the Pale Moon program folder and put the PM logo launcher icon to a place where I want it on the Panel (taskbar). The program folders for Waterfox and LibreWolf are in the Documents folder as well.

Why do I use the Documents folder? I do not keep any important information such as medical history for me and my wife, financial information, real estate, social security stuff, etc; so nothing valuable is on any of the hard drives on any of our four computers in our home. That information is on flash/thumb drives hidden in various places such as the attic and in safety deposit boxes at three of the banks we have accounts at.

When I want to use a new version of linux Pale Moon, I first download the newest version (tarball) and place it on the Desktop. Then I open the Documents folder where the previous old Pale Moon program folder is, left click on the folder to highlight it, left click "Edit" and when the window opens up, I left click "Delete" and the previous version of Pale Moon is erased. Then I extract the program folder of the newest version to the Desktop and drag it back into the Documents folder in Thunar.

BTW, once the Pale Moon launcher logo icon is created, you don't have to create it again. But you will if you ever have to make a new profile in Pale Moon. l did that when I down graded from version 30.0.0 to version (29.4.5.1).

I prefer this method to using the commands which are needed to use the linux Terminal when installing or uninstalling linux Pale Moon. So I have no need to use the Terminal.

The Terminal and me do not get along. I have been using linux Mint since late December of 2012 which is almost 9 1/2 years. In that time I have only used the Terminal a total of 6 times over that time span. Basically, 6 times divided by 9 1/2 years comes out to "less" than one time per year.

And I started using linux Pale Moon in Mint when linux Pale Moon was released in January of 2014.
Last edited by Night Wing on 2022-04-05, 05:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by Mæstro » 2022-04-05, 03:03

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:55
pixiv I can understand since they require webcomponents as of a week ago (though even Pale Moon's half-baked implementation hidden behind an about:config flag seems to work fine for pixiv?)
I had not noticed any changes on Pixiv, which has always worked for me; I had enabled WebComponents when Fanbox demanded it. My Waterfox-using friend and I still miss the old site, which had worked and looked much better, but the new one avoids cooking my processor, at least. Boorus remain our refuge if things sour further.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 03:15

TheRealMaestro wrote:
2022-04-05, 03:03
I had not noticed any changes on Pixiv
With that Kotomi avatar of yours I'm not surprised that you're also a pixiv/fanbox/booru user. :P

But basically what happened is that at the begginning of April, pixiv changed something ever-so-slightly that, when webcomponents are not enabled, you now just get a blank page.

Interestingly though, the actual web page design does not seem to be any different between now (early April) and before the change-over occurred (late March).

...that being said, I did notice sometime in the last few months that artwork uploaded to pixiv through Pale Moon no longer worked correctly and would not actually submit; it's possible that this may be something that would actually work fine with webcomponents enabled (I have not actually tested this though), but there's always the work-around of just using "postybirb" (not a typo) to upload artwork. UPDATE: just tested it really quickly and, sure enough, uploading artwork directly through pixiv.net in Pale Moon seems to work now (with webcomponents enabled of course since you can't even navigate the website otherwise).

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-04-05, 03:40

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 03:15
But basically what happened is that at the begginning of April, pixiv changed something ever-so-slightly that, when webcomponents are not enabled, you now just get a blank page.

Interestingly though, the actual web page design does not seem to be any different between now (early April) and before the change-over occurred (late March).

...that being said, I did notice sometime in the last few months that artwork uploaded to pixiv through Pale Moon no longer worked correctly and would not actually submit; it's possible that this may be something that would actually work fine with webcomponents enabled (I have not actually tested this though), but there's always the work-around of just using "postybirb" (not a typo) to upload artwork. UPDATE: just tested it really quickly and, sure enough, uploading artwork directly through pixiv.net in Pale Moon seems to work now (with webcomponents enabled of course since you can't even navigate the website otherwise).
That is actually really useful information. It's encouraging to hear that our WebComponents implementation does work on some sites that require it, even if a lot of them don't quite work. It kind of gives me motivation to continue working on it.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-04-05, 05:29

I use Steve Pusser's builds so don't have to worry where it's installed, but it goes under /usr/lib. Usually I've seen people manually install software to /opt. I use Calibre and it does that with its own install/update script.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by hujan86 » 2022-04-05, 06:12

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:55
pixiv I can understand since they require webcomponents as of a week ago (though even Pale Moon's half-baked implementation hidden behind an about:config flag seems to work fine for pixiv?), but I'm not sure I ever really had any issues with DeviantArt outside of some wacky commenting issues that didn't seem to be present anymore when I tried it sometime around the spring equinox (this was a week before pixiv started requiring webcomponents, so I still had webcomponents disabled at the time).
That explains the blank page I'm getting recently, because I was able to browse Pixiv last month.

As for DeviantArt in my case, scrolling and switching between tabs was grinding to almost halt within 10-15 minutes of browsing. Even after closing all the tabs containing DA webpages, Pale Moon remained irresponsive that sometimes I have to end it with Windows' Task Manager, which from there I saw the browser's CPU utilization was erratic, spiking up to 50% and RAM consumption was between 1.5-2GB.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by Nuck-TH » 2022-04-05, 08:10

Deviantart, Youtube and such have something in scripting that leaves ghost windows hanging around without hitting their timeout(default is 60 sec) or somehow refreshing it. I wonder if anything can be done about this...

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-04-05, 10:04

Nuck-TH wrote:
2022-04-05, 08:10
Deviantart, Youtube and such have something in scripting that leaves ghost windows hanging around without hitting their timeout(default is 60 sec) or somehow refreshing it. I wonder if anything can be done about this...
They probably hit the cycle collector trace limit (due to ludicrous amounts of recursion and indirection in frameworks) so the browser engine never finds out that the background runtimes aren't actually used by any active site anymore, and stick around indefinitely. This is one of the very few upsides of most other browsers using multi-process mode: where really really badly behaving sites would not allow the browser to properly clean up their resources, and multi-process would just throw that out with the bath water when terminating a tab's process. There's very little that can be done about it aside from occasionally hitting file->restart in the browser.
I haven't really tested this but maybe in this case going to those leaky sites in a private browsing window might also help?
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by loxodont » 2022-04-07, 06:16

I would agree with Trippynets 95% of sites which work well or are usable with minor limits in Pale Moon, but I'm not a power user of modern social sites and I have even quit a few of those sites which turned out to be horrible in Basilisk and Firefox, too.

But I agree with the OP that sites support with their mono-advice to use Chrome or Firefox have become annoying.
Fun fact, since I just installed Iridium-Chrome for the first time, after a few checks of well-known sites, it seems that even Chrome has problems with chromified sites and stopped with a crash. At least I got a message about "memory problems" with online TV. I've never had this problem with Pale Moon on that same site.
On another news site Pale Moon renders the page fonts not so smoothed and nice like newer Firefox, but it shows the pictures on the main page while new Firefox (with toggled options and 3 disabled webextensions) blocks them for no obvious reason.

It might be too early to say that, because I don't have used Iridium for a longer time now and have only uBlock Origin installed, but the general native handling of the browser, with History and Bookmarks Management is - like Firefox - not my thing and I'm sure it's not only my own habits.

Other browsers, other problems

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by LunaMoonCat » 2022-04-08, 15:43

Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-04, 09:55
Why do people refuse to take my (and other's) advice that they should use the browser that works best for their workflow?
Because all other browsers are spyware and broken garbage, how can they "work best" for anyone's "workflow"? And why would you, the main guy behind Pale Moon, ever encourage anyone to use a different browser? That makes zero sense. You should be trying to make the best browser on the planet -- not "something that kinda works for some people, maybe, if it works for their workflow". What kind of attitude is that?

A lot of the things you've said probably comes off as arrogant and hostile to others, but it's usually justified when they complain about Pale Moon being broken when it's actually actively broken by malicious webdevs (or Google/whatever). *This* mentality, on the other hand, just baffles me.
Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-04, 09:55
Going on this forum and greatly exaggerating the situation claiming it's locked out from almost every site is hardly constructive.
It's not "greatly exaggerating" the situation, and you of all people should know this. In fact, I could basically have said "every" site rather than "almost every" at this point. I don't know what HTML 2.0 documents you all load all day, but that's not reality. Basically the only pages that load and render correctly for me are the ones I coded myself.
Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-04, 09:55
Nor is a defeatist follow-up that doesn't actually help us become more web-compatible and just complains about other people not being equally defeatist.
Seeing reality is not being "defeatist". You and others, however, seem to ignore reality. It's scary.
Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-04, 09:55
I think the people who "refuse to listen" are the ones genuinely interested in an alternative.
So now you're accusing me of not being "genuinely interested" in an alternative to the horrible spyware that I'm expected to infect my machine with just to juggle around for all the webpages that break in Pale Moon?

The more I interact with you, the less I'm liking Pale Moon, because I know that the main person behind it appears to have resigned to the hopelessness of the situation, starting to say things which are normally said by those paid by "Big Tech". I hope you haven't been as well.

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by gepus » 2022-04-08, 16:24

LunaMoonCat wrote:
2022-04-08, 15:43
A lot of the things you've said probably comes off as arrogant and hostile to others, ...
IMHO the only mistake of Moonchild was to waste his time by feeding a troll like you.

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by hujan86 » 2022-04-08, 16:47

Perhaps it is better if the Admin/Mod just lock this thread.
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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-04-08, 17:29

LunaMoonCat wrote:
2022-04-08, 15:43
In fact, I could basically have said "every" site rather than "almost every" at this point.
It would appear that when this particular OP is angered, their wildly and demonstrably false statements grow more and more exaggerated. :coffee:

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Re: What to do when Pale Moon is being locked out from almost every site?

Unread post by Admin » 2022-04-08, 18:56

This clearly wasn't going anywhere but towards a dumpster fire/trolling thread.
Move along, nothing to see here.
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