Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

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rbeltz48
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Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by rbeltz48 » 2021-12-13, 17:36

A huge thank you for all your work these many years to produce a classic browser. I have been using PCs for the past 40 years starting with the TRS-80 Model 1 and continued using PCs as an IBM System/36 and AS/400-iSeries Developer and Consultant for over 20 years. I have watched the continuous development, and in many cases, "unnecessary" development of browsers, beginning with Netscape and the earliest versions of Firefox which I have now come to dislike very much ever since the radical change in Firefox 57. Newer Linux distros are now up to Firefox Ver. 95. The interface keeps changing. That is no way to attract people to stay with Firefox which has also become very buggy in the past 3-4 years. I just wanted to say how glad I am that I can still download and install this classic browser! Kudos to you for all your hard work!

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-12-13, 18:25

Thanks for your kind words! I won't take all the credit though, everyone else genuinely helping out with support of any kind or contributions deserve just as much of your kindness.
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-10, 02:30

Four good years of Palemoon for me, getting better and better and very pleased with.

Unfortunately In the latest edition the flash downloader and quickjava (replacement found for it) don't work which is a shame but I know nothing is perfect.

I remembered during Firefox 21? just about the time when Alex Limi did his thing he wanted to do with removing options like Javascript button in settings and I sensed arrogance from that point onwards towards the user and , knew from that moment it might going to go downhill for people like me. I know it's trivial but as time went by it proven to be right.

https://www.ghacks.net/2013/04/11/mozil ... ce-window/
While changes to some of these preferences may have an effect on the browsing experience and usability, I'd prefer them to stay available in the browser. For me, it is like saying "our users can't be trusted with making decisions on their own, therefore we need to make decisions for them
That is the arrogance I have been seeing in parts of Firefox 75 like the one below:
Image

Firefox 75+: Hmm. We're having trouble find that site/"We can't connect to the server at...
We're? There is no "we're" it is not human.

Looking much more respectable:
Firefox 22/Palemoon "Server not found"
Vivaldi/Chrome "No internet"/ERR_INTERNET_DISCONNECTED

I remembered in some later edition 48+? someone was using they bundled this flash player in their program folder and had it run all the time which caused havoc but like the external one it use to take up memory gradually causing it to hang until I killed the flashplayer. Attempting to do that with their built one they artificially cover over the contents with a pretentious "tab has crashed" overlay when it hadn't. It was just one component not needed on a blank page and I thought at the time that was it for Firefox.

Thank you for maintaining the great work of a much beloved browser with a great set of features and appearance without dumbing it down/oversimplifying or adding unwanted things that intrude and harass the user as what I was finding with the later Firefox.

I made a small $10 donation to show some appreciation.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-11, 00:22

I was missing the FlashGot that works on a stantalond 28.9.1 not compatible with 29.21 but I found this extension Get'emAll! that does the job brilliantly.

Went to test it on Youtube:
Image

Downloads and plays fine and all I have to do is just rename it.
Very useful as it will list everything on the page.

Aside from the large top buttons the general appearance is something i am also pleased about that I find more like an improvement.

Thank you very much for this much appreciated.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-02-11, 02:15

MrMobodies wrote:
2022-02-11, 00:22
I found this extension Get'emAll! that does the job brilliantly.
Thanks for the feedback :)
This extension is a fork of the original one called DownThemAll! for Firefox (which still exists as a web extension but inevitably lacks the tight integration with the download prompt, clear privacy settings and the scheduler that this one has among other features.
MrMobodies wrote:
2022-02-10, 02:30
I remembered during Firefox 21? just about the time when Alex Limi did his thing he wanted to do with removing options like Javascript button in settings and I sensed arrogance from that point onwards towards the user and , knew from that moment it might going to go downhill for people like me. I know it's trivial but as time went by it proven to be right.
Thanks for sharing the Ghacks link. This is like evidence for how far back the great dumbing down started, and as usual you can see idiots in the comments saying 'so what, you can use about:config' :roll:
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Blacklab » 2022-02-11, 21:54

That Ghacks link (above) back in April 2013 would be around the time that the Smartphone and Smartphone Apps became the dominant 'way of future'... the way the mass of the public would interact with the internet... and about when the short-lived Netbook era died.

Mass use of the internet by people with a near-zero interest in computers was always going to be a winner commercially... and dumbing everything down to meet that near-zero interest was regrettably inevitable. No surprise that browser design towards reducing complexity for the zero-interest user (who never alters basic settings) followed the trend. :(

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by MrMobodies » 2022-02-12, 01:41

Just noticed something interesting with video playback.

Eevblog video very slow all cpu time used up on playback with a dedicated Chrome profile that I use for Odysee. I noticed the resolution settings missing and suspect it was put on the highest resolution so I'd thought I'd play it in Videolan which played fine and yes it was 1920 x 1080. Then I wondered how would it perform with Palemoon, will it be slower... but no very very smooth... it takes up hardly takes up any CPU time what a surprise.

Image
I wondered, is Palemoon using some kind of video acceleration that normal media players use such as Media classic player/ VideoLan and the old analogue PC TV tuners that used a video overlay mode 20 years ago. So I went into Nvidia controls "adjust video colour settings" and it adjusted the video colour on both Videolan and the video playback on Odysee in the Palemoon browser. Whereas it never seem to work in Chrome and Firefox only "Adjust desktop colour settings" on all the machines I had over the years and graphics cards. I always noticed the overhead on playback is so much more with Chrome and Firefox as to when just I download and play it with a media player.

How is this browser able to get that working right and others still can't seem to do it properly for so long at least in my case?

Looks like proper hardware accelerated video playback that I didn't think was going to work this well in any browser.
Proof that Palemon has come a long way.
Now that is what inspires my confidence.

Dropped off another $10 donation just now.

I just noticed on your footer that you make the Palemoon extensions and had a look at your PmPlayer thing which just shows whatever player is on the page which does exactly what I expect and it doesn't take a lot to please me.

Image

A lot better than the one in Chrome "Picture-in-Picture- which has this fancy frameless border but they ruin it all by obscuring the video playback with a dimming overlay that appears on mouse hover and seek (might be trying to study the video), also restrict to seeking seconds long (can seem to click at the end to get there), which is why I never used picture-in-picture and the one in the Firefox 75 don't show the seek bar or counter which I find is poor. Another thing I find they didn't get right.

Blacklab wrote:
2022-02-11, 21:54
That Ghacks link (above) back in April 2013 would be around the time that the Smartphone and Smartphone Apps became the dominant 'way of future'... the way the mass of the public would interact with the internet... and about when the short-lived Netbook era died.

Mass use of the internet by people with a near-zero interest in computers was always going to be a winner commercially... and dumbing everything down to meet that near-zero interest was regrettably inevitable. No surprise that browser design towards reducing complexity for the zero-interest user (who never alters basic settings) followed the trend. :(
I had a few tell me that... people don't use laptops anymore...So I say, but you have no control over it. For now it works for you but what when they start doing things that work against you, what are you going to do if they offer to brick your device for free in the next "update?" (sarcasm)

I don't have a tablet but all I want, like all my other stuff is the right to use it when I please and the means like to disc image and recover it. I used Norton Ghost (dos) for many years, easy to use, but now with EFI partitions Macrium Reflect do a free version that does the basics. When my stuff gets old I just store it somewhere or use it for dedicated tasks and repair if it practical rather than throw it away.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-02-12, 08:39

MrMobodies wrote:
2022-02-12, 01:41
I just noticed on your footer that you make the Palemoon extensions and had a look at your PmPlayer thing which just shows whatever player is on the page which does exactly what I expect and it doesn't take a lot to please me.
Thanks :)
All it does is use the embed code from the respective site and display it in a popup window, so the caveat is that some Youtube videos whose authors have disabled embedding won't work and you'll have to see them on the site only.
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by sunstarunicorn » 2022-03-21, 17:53

In the wake of Tobin's deliberately destructive exit, I wanted to bump this thread back to the top and reiterate the OP's message.

Thank you so much to Moonchild and The Pale Moon Project team for your dedication to the browser and keeping the Internet as user-friendly as possible (while also being secure, no easy task).
:thumbup: :clap:

I pray that someday, we will be able to look back and see Tobin's actions as a blessing in disguise for Pale Moon.

In the meantime, Moonchild, other than donations, is there anything we plain vanilla non-developers can do to support the Project during this tough time?

Also, as it is likely that quite a few people updated to the latest milestone (especially after the bit about a zero-day vulnerability), is there anything practical which we can do on our end if it becomes necessary to downgrade?

Speaking for myself, personally, I can be patient during the transition period and I would prioritize security over immediately getting the addons/themes/language packs running on 30.0.
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Connect, Respect, Protect

Let's Keep the Peace!

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-03-21, 18:24

sunstarunicorn wrote:
2022-03-21, 17:53
In the meantime, Moonchild, other than donations, is there anything we plain vanilla non-developers can do to support the Project during this tough time?
Absolutely. Help answer questions of users on this very forum who will be confused about what happened and likely won't actually be reading anything before posting. Some may be panicking; please try to calm them and be patient.
Not having to do that myself means i can focus on repairing the damage done more effectively.
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-03-21, 19:24

This is the only major browser with the capability of having a healthy collection of extensions which is developed free from the influences of Google and all their nefarious partners in the various global spy agencies. Using Pale Moon is no longer just a nice thing to do - it's a necessity for those who truly understand the threats to their personal privacy and freedom of expression. I also greatly appreciate the hard work.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Likestofish » 2022-03-21, 21:40

This Project is what, in its thirteenth or fourteenth year of public release and it can still take these kinds of hits, shake them them off, and press on? Pale Moon is as tenacious as a champion pit bull in the fight pit. No letting go...

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-03-22, 12:34

I just have to say (here is as good a place as any) that I'm blown away by the support given to press on. You've effectively funded a new server to be run for quite some time which I will use to set up the addons site to the best of my ability. Since this was written, set up and operated by Tobin prior and he left without the normal procedure of a handover, there is no guide to follow, and although I seem to have gotten all the data dumps and web data, i still have to figure out how it was all configured. That will take time, but at least I won't have to worry so much about the cost.

Thank you, everyone, who has donated the past days in response to the damage done.
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by mrnhmath » 2022-03-22, 14:11

After rain, the sun comes out. Let this setback be the start of something better.

Thanks Moonchild, and thanks to all current and past contributors.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Pallid Planetoid » 2022-04-03, 16:40

From my perspective (based on long standing stated goals) - thankfully the Pale Moon project is back-on-track again from where in my view the project had drifted away from to some extent (i.e. extension availability to be specific).

Why I feel this way?

From Pale Moon website: Information > The Project Page > General Information:
https://www.palemoon.org/info.shtml ([General] Information about the project):
Pale Moon aims to provide a browser with a large degree of freedom in how people want to browse the web, which tools or extensions they wish to use, and which feedback they want to see ("Your browser, Your way"™);
Arguably back on track!

Jun 29, 2019 - by Moonchild:
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=22399 (This is rumor control, here are the facts - Summer 2019 edition)
... the number of third-party developed, now labeled "legacy", extensions that work out-of-the-box with Pale Moon is quite significant, even though you may need a few tweaks here and there.
We also have a substantial and growing number of Pale Moon-targeted extensions generally of impressive quality (thanks to the extension developers!) to make the browser your own. We will continue to support these "legacy" technologies.
Arguably back on track!

There are more examples - but I'll keep it brief for a change. ;)

Taking into consideration user feedback is golden!!!

A BIGTIME!! THANK YOU MOONCHILD!!!
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Baloo » 2022-04-03, 20:13

Thanks to the devs who continually maintain this browser when big money interests have ruined their browsers for the average user all to chase "adoption" and Google money.
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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by Ron_S » 2022-05-11, 10:28

My first post, and medium to long term user of the 'Moon...

I can only agree with the posts here, Palemoon is a breath of fresh air in an ocean of garbage.

The last good browser I used was K-Meleon at least 7 or 8 years ago, but development stopped for a while and things were breaking.
So the search started for an alternative (again), and after trying what seemed like at least a dozen browsers (in reality probably more), Palemoon stood out as something workable. At the time I felt it was slower than K-Meleon but worked better and was more stable/polished.

The main browsers I've used since 1996 are Netscape, Firefox, Opera, K-Meleon, and now Palemoon.
I tried many others for brief moments during that time but none other than the above grabbed me.

I still try other browsers now and again because of the whole web standards debacle and some sites not working on Palemoon, but I still haven't come across anything that's even close to the workability.
So basically I just don't bother using anything else and don't bother going back to the sites which don't work.

I have now and again read these forums over the years and saw the volatile and toxic nature of the dude who has recently gone, and I think the project as a whole will be even better for it.

In a nutshell a big thanks to Moonchild for doing what he does, and naturally thanks to all the contributors. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2022-05-12, 19:41

Here are three things I like about Pale Moon (other than the extensions):

- You can turn off the history
- RSS Feeds in Folders
- The new Global Privacy Control (do other browsers have this?)

Off-topic:
Also, how many people are using the sync service? Those servers are probably expensive.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by pubpub » 2022-05-12, 21:04

I'm happy I can browse the web without using ugly, hard to customize (and limited in whatever customization can be done) and bloated browsers. The ammount of themes available for Pale Moon is really great, and I've managed to find more than one that makes me actually like the way my browser looks (something that firefox and chromium failed to do in many years).

I'm also happy that, either because other browsers can't or because I haven't figured out the way to do so (in Pale Moon figuring out was very easy), Pale Moon allows me to easily download any file that a website sends my way, without having to use an extension to do so or seethe eternally at highlighting or right click not working, just navigating to the network tab and checking there works 99% of the times (for the other 1% printing to a file does the job).

I love playing flash games like Last Stand Union City and I'll be eternally mad at chrome and firefox yelling at me for years and finally disallowing me from playing it. Pale Moon has never gotten in the way, after figuring out how to get the flash plugin up and running everything's been great.

Since I'm on Gentoo GNU/Linux, every (most) program I run is compiled from source, so I'm also happy to point out that this browser takes less than half the time it takes other browsers to compile (almost 11 hours for Pale Moon, 23 hours for firefox and ungoogled-chromium without optimization flags, 3 days for ungoogled chromium with optimization flags), although it did force me to compile gcc 10.3 again once 11.2 became stable on gentoo and I removed the old one, because it will refuse to compile on any older version than 10.3 (something that probably has a very valid reason to be that way and that's probably controlled by the overlay maintainer anyways). That last point is very dependent on CPU and cooling available so it might not be very relevant for most, but for my old notebook with 2 cores and 4 threads, but horrible cooling, compiling this on one thread is not at all a painful experience, temperature goes up to 79ºC at the highest without having to step down from 2.53 GHz; the other browsers instead keep the CPU temp at 83ºC and make it step down to 931MHz.

My old system also benefits from Pale Moon being a single process. If it ever misbehaves and I have to kill it, it is done in one fell swoop. No more playinh whack-a-mole with firefox and chromium's infinite processes to see which one I have to kill for it to stop (most often it would only stop once I had killed 8/13 processes, sometimes even more if there were more)

In short, Pale Moon's got:
  • The looks I want
  • The feel I like
  • The functionality I need
And I wouldn't want it any other way.

For it's objective merits and the subjective benefit it gives to my old computer, I thank you all, Moonchild and the other Pale Moon devs.

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Re: Thanks Moonchild for Pale Moon!

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-12, 22:06

pubpub wrote:
2022-05-12, 21:04
force me to compile gcc 10.3 again once 11.2 became stable on gentoo and I removed the old one, because it will refuse to compile on any older version than 10.3
That must be a gentoo thing, I just built it over the weekend with gcc 10.2.1 on antiX Linux.

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