Pale Moon forum

I'm back with another browser ranking with Pale Moon easily in the top-10 for this year (actually ranked #6 overall ): LINK: 2020 Best Internet Browsers Review by topattack.com I know I'll likely get ridiculed as usual by the fusspot purists -- but it always makes me feel good to see this regardless.

Still using the old logo, too.

Anyway it's a little weird. Why is MSIE in a high place? Oh that's right because it uses a lot less memory ... because it doesn't support half of what's needed for the web
I'll just file this under "nice try but not really any sort of useful of a comparison"

Pale Moon did get #1 in Features and did very good overall too, now I'm just wondering WTH a maxthon is (rhetorical) never heard of it.
Pale Moon still #1 for me...change my mind.

Also funny that they mark Google Chrome as open source. It isn't. Chromium is, but Chrome is not.

Kathuluforz wrote: ↑

2020-05-17, 17:39

I'm just wondering WTH a maxthon is (rhetorical) never heard of it.

Maxthon is a Chinese Chrome clone browser, I tried it a couple years ago.

Torch at number 9 lol..
That is when the site lost any credibility.
Nothing to see there...moved on.

Moonraker wrote: ↑

2020-05-17, 19:07

Torch at number 9 lol..
That is when the site lost any credibility.
Nothing to see there...moved on.

The credibility was lost when I saw Netscape navigator, it isn't updated for over 10 years.

Pentium4User wrote: ↑

2020-05-17, 19:20

Moonraker wrote: ↑

2020-05-17, 19:07

Torch at number 9 lol..
That is when the site lost any credibility.
Nothing to see there...moved on.

The credibility was lost when I saw Netscape navigator, it isn't updated for over 10 years.

Actually i would give that one a shot .ancestral browsers are always worth a visit.

True, I also like their usage concept, but they're mostly unusable for up-to-date websites with their styles, TLS version or just JavaScript.

Netscape has no support for current CSS which is used everywhere for layout and styling. I don't see how it would be in any way usable on the vast majority of sites.

badnick wrote: ↑

2020-05-17, 18:52

Maxthon is a Chinese Chrome clone browser, I tried it a couple years ago.

It started out as MyIE2, and was a shell around IE with tabbed browsing and a built in adblocker, I used it in the early 2000s. Now they've switched the core to Chrome like everyone else

I know that Pale Moon support in general will never agree with my premise -- but I stand by my position that any kind of exposure (especially this kind - available to the masses) is arguably a plus (and in my opinion a pretty darn big plus) and holds true for whatever the product might be.

I understand the counter position that drilling-down into the comparisons will result in an overall "wash" -- however I don't agree that this is what will happen for the most part. Just the fact that there will be a very large number of potential users who would have otherwise never heard of Pale Moon is the kind of exposure that is clearly a positive (and I would argue the vast majority do not get-down into the particulars). My position is just the added name recognition results in people minimally trying something out that is something "new" to them and more people trying anything out that is highly competitive in the market place has to be a positive as far as garnering market share. People who find this browser ranking page are presumably already likely amenable to checking out another browser (or why else would they have discovered the articled) and for these potential "new" users anything that they haven't heard of before becomes a candidate for these people to check out. And clearly the more people looking into any product in the market place is going to be beneficial to a product that was a previously unknown to them. How can exposure be a "negative"? -- it cannot!

So then - is it really a "wash" as argued by some? Maybe, maybe not -- perhaps taking this approach as to the question "maybe or maybe not?" will convince you naysayers that insist this type "exposure" won't really help..... Consider that the "maybe" has to be better than before the "exposure" because before the "exposure" there cannot even be "a 'maybe' it could help" at all. So "the 'maybe' it could help" has to be an improvement as opposed to no "maybe" at all -- how about that? Clearly "exposure" cannot be a negative for a good product and to argue a "wash" is actually arguing on the side of a "negative" which my premise above argues cannot be the case.

But go ahead -- disagree all you want. I'd suggest you talk to a marketing strategist and ask just this "what is most important for any business?". Ask - where does "exposure" lie as a factor in strategical importance for virtually any business?..... all you have to do is check out the Internet and you'll find that the term "exposure" is the paramount goal for any business above all other marketing strategies to be considered. Without "exposure" any business of any kind is virtually doomed to failure (customer awareness is undeniably critical to the success of any business). For those that continue to hold the contrary position on this -- consider this axiom that really can't be debated imo: "the more the exposure the more the customers as contrasted to the less the exposure the less the customers". How can that axiom be in any way wrong? Clearly this axiom will always hold true and the better the product even more so.

This is the reason I mentioned previously -- "... it always makes me feel good to see this regardless" for Pale Moon -- to be specific, regardless of the naysayers

Pallid Planetoid wrote: ↑

2020-05-18, 16:08

the more the exposure the more the customers

But exposure not the unworthy criticism. You yourself said that people don't dig into facts and do serious research, so any any negative exposure is bad. Pale Moon is not a celebrity, Or a business.

adesh wrote: ↑

2020-05-18, 17:18

Pallid Planetoid wrote: ↑

2020-05-18, 16:08

the more the exposure the more the customers

But exposure not the unworthy criticism. You yourself said that people don't dig into facts and do serious research, so any any negative exposure is bad. Pale Moon is not a celebrity, Or a business.

I trust that Pale Moon is not about "negative" exposure because it is the excellent browser that it is.... The more users the more donations the better Pale Moon can be -- it works the same as in any enterprise and in that sense it is a type of "business" if you will. Fact is customers are not possible absent "exposure" -- you will not use what you do not know about. Simple deductive logic at work.... (my reference to the term "customers" correlates to "users" and in either case applies to the success or failure of any type enterprise endeavor in regards to the concept "the more the better".)

You failed to read the most important point in my post; at least you didn't counter it.

^ and that most important point was?....

Pallid Planetoid wrote: ↑

2020-05-18, 18:11

^ and that most important point was?....

This:

Pale Moon is not a celebrity, Or a business.

The term 'customer' is meaningless in the context of this browser. Or any browser ever since Internet Explorer started being bundled with Windows. Customers by definition are paying to use it, and unlike various privacy raping online services or Pale Moon's ancestor, where 'if you are not paying for it you are the product', Pale Moon isn't profiting off userdata either.

Besides why is popularity a good thing? Who the hell wants the mouthbreathers seen on Reddit and other places to show up here with their dumb entitled attitude or total cluelessness about mentioning basic information when asking for help? We have enough of those already here who can't be bothered to search before asking for help, or even reading basic system requirements or technical information that emphatically states that this browser is not and won't ever become Firefox.

The masses have been dummified over the last decade by Chrome,expecting a 'simple' UI incapable of doing anything, and for whom a desktop browser isn't cool enough because it looks 'old'. Try mentioning Pale Moon anywhere else and you'll be bombarded by Firefox trolls repeating the same debunked bullshit. And as far as I know - not a single author of any of these articles that mention Pale Moon has bothered to read the basic information about the browser on the main page, let alone contact Moonchild to clarify the 'old and obsolete' or 'unsafe because it doesn't use sandboxing' canards.

Screw them. Let Pale Moon's audience be self selecting, we are here because we know what we want out of a browsing experience and nobody else provides this.

^ All excellent points nearly all of which I would totally agree of which to a very large extent discusses the pernicious effects of "herd mentality" that otherwise does not have much to do with what I've said. So I sincerely do appreciate your sentiments and as I said do agree as well -- but with that said -- let's stay on point and get back to what I've actually been saying all along (of which some inexplicably take the opposite view).

If you disagree with what I've previously said all along (regarding "exposure" and the "success" of the Pale Moon "project") and take the opposite position that "exposure" is not helpful in the least to the "project" then presumably we would have to conclude that each of us who support Pale Moon should all root for the browser to not make any top-10 list and with that celebrate that Pale Moon's "exposure" remains limited as much as possible. However if you happen to disagree with what I've just said in the previous sentence then you would find yourself on the opposite end of the spectrum and as such, to your chagrin perhaps, find yourselves to be in agreement with all that I've been saying. Which do you feel makes sense?

In reference to the term "customers" -- I've already discussed this but I'll repeat in case anyone missed it "my reference to the term 'customers' correlates to 'users' and in either case applies to the success or failure of any type enterprise endeavor in regards to the concept 'the more the better'." The term "customers" is a "business" oriented term and as such would not apply in a strict sense to Pale Moon (agreed! of course) but I've clarified that the term is only used to discuss "business" paradigms as it would relate to any enterprise striving for success.

So let's discuss what does apply to Pale Moon (which is exactly what I've been doing all along). Hopefully we can all agree that the Pale Moon project is an enterprise with a goal to succeed (serve it's users in a successful manner) and as such applies to any paradigm that supports the goal to "succeed". Based on counterpoints expressed in this topic one would have to believe that there are exceptions to the extent that some enterprises should not oriented toward "success". The term "success" simply means a "favorable outcome" (monetary remuneration is not required to satisfy the term "success"). The term "enterprise" simply means a "project undertaken". I would suggest that in every case a "favorable outcome" should be and will be the goal of any "enterprise".

So with all that said, can we all agree that Pale Moon is in fact an "enterprise" (project undertaken) and that the goal of this "enterprise" (as is the case with any "enterprise") to to attain "success" (that being a "favorable outcome" as defined by the term "success")?

Hopefully we all do agree and thus can continue on....

If a "favorable outcome" means less "exposure" then that is what any type "enterprise" will and presumably should strive for. Does anyone believe that this would be the case? Of course not! -- just the opposite -- "exposure" is absolutely critical the success of any "enterprise". I contend, no one in the right-mind would say otherwise.

This is ALL that I'm saying -- we can discuss and assuredly agree to a large extent the foibles of "herd mentality" and how it distorts common sense and can be harmful to the success of any well run enterprise in so many ways that might find itself outside of the "herd mentality" that exists. All worthwhile points and discussions to be made. But that's not what I've been talking about.

My only point is that there are two positions to hold in regard to any browser that might garner additional "exposure" (as outlined below).

That would be in regards to what is helpful to the success of an enterprise (in this case Pale Moon):
#1 Exposure isn't helpful
or
#2 Exposure is helpful

For all those who take the #1 position -- all I can say is I'm frankly at a loss how this conclusion can be reached.

If I'm correct when I say I personally support #2 -- then the website I've linked in this topic cannot be a negative for Pale Moon. So it has to be either a "positive" or a "wash" (as some like to think). I contend that by holding that the at worse the outcome is a "wash" then we would be condemning Pale Moon as that of a "bad" product (or project if you will). Because clearly if that were not the case and the project is a "good" one then how in the world would exposure to a "good" product turn out to be at best a "wash"?

You "sir" are what could be consider an "idiot".

Pallid Planetoid, read this carefully before replying please.

Nobody said exposure is not helpful. But a thing like negative publicity and "exposure" also exists. Take "fake news" or spreading propaganda, affecting elections using "exposure" and a lot of other things. Do you think those are helpful or unhelpful?
This negative exposure, undue criticism and misinformation is what is dangerous and what the core people are against (as they should be).