Linux has over 6% of the desktop market

[andyprough]

And of this date and time, 75% of them have left Windows 11 and come on over to the "Dark Side" (reference to Darth Vader) of Linux because they mostly surf the web, store pictures, store music, do email, do social media, etc.

Not sure what this "75%" is referring to. As discussed previously, IF the percentages really have changed from 2-3% to the 5% range, this is likely just a hiccup like we've seen during previous Windows upgrade cycles and will just as likely revert to form soon.

Stockholm syndrome... thats the only reason people would be willing o use windows 11 given the copilot crap is so unbelievably awful.

every 5 seconds there is a snapshot taken. I cannot imagine how bad i will get.

I didn't know what you were talking about, so I looked it up. Apparently this 5-second snapshot thing is called "Microsoft Recall", which is an opt-in thing that some people enable when they buy a Windows "Copilot+" laptop. Apparently it is not something that is in all Windows 11 systems, and apparently it is not being forced on anyone at this point in time. So don't expect this thing to have any influence on how many people stay with Windows.

[Night Wing]

And of this date and time, 75% of them have left Windows 11 and come on over to the "Dark Side" (reference to Darth Vader) of Linux because they mostly surf the web, store pictures, store music, do email, do social media, etc.

Not sure what this "75%" is referring to. As discussed previously, IF the percentages really have changed from 2-3% to the 5% range, this is likely just a hiccup like we've seen during previous Windows upgrade cycles and will just as likely revert to form soon.

What you quoted from above in my post to you, you left out the part above it which refers to the people who come into our computer repair shop. It was a long post so it is easy to miss if one is in a hurry. What I said and you missed it is below.

The "mom and pop" types who come into the computer repair shop where I volunteer, lots of them have played with the demo computers in our small showroom installed with the distros of Mint, MX Linux and Debian.

And of this date and time, 75% of them have left Windows 11 and come on over to the "Dark Side" (reference to Darth Vader) of Linux because they mostly surf the web, store pictures, store music, do email, do social media, etc. No power user "stuff".

[andyprough]

What you quoted from above in my post to you, you left out the part above it which refers to the people who come into our computer repair shop. It was a long post so it is easy to miss if one is in a hurry. What I said and you missed it is below.

The "mom and pop" types who come into the computer repair shop where I volunteer, lots of them have played with the demo computers in our small showroom installed with the distros of Mint, MX Linux and Debian.

And of this date and time, 75% of them have left Windows 11 and come on over to the "Dark Side" (reference to Darth Vader) of Linux because they mostly surf the web, store pictures, store music, do email, do social media, etc. No power user "stuff".

OK, I see now.

I think the big new thing to move masses of people toward using GNU/Linux as a computer is the SteamDeck. It's the first time since the original eeePC (before eeePC switched to Windows) that John Q. Public could easily buy an affordable, mass-produced GNU/Linux computer through normal retail channels.

That's really the problem with mass adoption is that either a local computer shop like yours has to install a GNU/Linux desktop distro on a computer for a buyer, or someone has to install it on their own system at home. The vast majority of people just buy a computer and use whatever is installed on it until they buy their next computer, which means Windows, Mac, or Chromebook for nearly all cases.

[Night Wing]

OK, I see now.

I think the big new thing to move masses of people toward using GNU/Linux as a computer is the SteamDeck. It's the first time since the original eeePC (before eeePC switched to Windows) that John Q. Public could easily buy an affordable, mass-produced GNU/Linux computer through normal retail channels.

That's really the problem with mass adoption is that either a local computer shop like yours has to install a GNU/Linux desktop distro on a computer for a buyer, or someone has to install it on their own system at home. The vast majority of people just buy a computer and use whatever is installed on it until they buy their next computer, which means Windows, Mac, or Chromebook for nearly all cases.

I agree with the SteamDeck. The amount of games for hard core gamers on the linux distros of CachyOS and Bazzite is really convincing lots of gamers using Windows to give Linux a "long look see". With distros like CachyOS and Bazzite on gaming, these distros are "giving Windows a run for it's money" (market share wise) like never before.

Since Windows 11 has a not very good reputation, people are starting to think more about "privacy". And with all of the bad press Windows 11 is getting and in my opinion the bad press is richly earned, most people do not want to buy a computer, laptop or desktop, already installed with Windows 11. They want something "different" and this is where Linux comes in.

We do more than just install a linux distro on a computer. We also configure it through the settings. When the customer comes into pay and pick up their computer, we go through all the Settings to see if the customer likes or dislikes something in the Settings. If they do not like something, we change it for them.

As an example, a customer came into the shop and did not want the standard black or white colored cursor which comes with every linux distro I have ever played with. They wanted the custom yellow cursor, named Radioactive that I use since the yellow cursor stands out easily on a dark or black background.

The problem with buying a computer which has Windows on it, before the linux distro installs on it, one has to go into the Windows registry to change the time from UTC to local time. If one forgets to do that like I did, time on on the distro will be off by 5-6 hours. I ran into this when I bought a used HP ProBook and it already came with Windows 11 installed on it. Then I had to use the (ugh!) Terminal to solve the problem and get the correct time and date for linux Debian.

To keep this post kind of short and not type a long manuscript; I am going to make another post since my next door neighbor who owns the repair shop where I volunteer at, sent me a link to a YouTube video showing how Windows 11 is basically driving many people over to Linux.

[Night Wing]

My next door neighbor sent me this link in an email describing how and why Windows 11 is helping to drive to people to the world of Linux (a linux distro). The title of this video is a little too much (wonky) for me. And the visuals in the video, jumps around too much.

But the words the guy is saying really hits home on why people just aren't in the mood to use Windows 11. The video explains what Microsoft is doing to Windows 11 and why people do not like what Microsoft is doing with Windows 11. These undesirable changes by Microsoft is why Linux is gaining in market share at the expense of Windows 11.

The video was released, at this time of this posting, three weeks ago so it is current. And it is a little over 16 minutes in length, but it is a good "listen".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJa4rL_9o0

[Mæstro]

That's really the problem with mass adoption is that either a local computer shop like yours has to install a GNU/Linux desktop distro on a computer for a buyer, or someone has to install it on their own system at home. The vast majority of people just buy a computer and use whatever is installed on it until they buy their next computer, which means Windows, Mac, or Chromebook for nearly all cases.

Í had bought my spare computer, the one with a missing charger, two years ago from an independent German online shop. (Although I am content with my purchase, I will not name the vendor, for my purpose here is not promotional.) It was refurbished, and the site order form offered a variety of mainstream distros or a slight fee (€30?) for installing another one. I have never seen a desktop or laptop computer with Linux installed at any of the major electronics shops, whether in Germany or the USA. Hardware partnerships are how Microsoft came to enjoy its OS monopoly in the nineties, even in the DOS days. Its current position is simply as an incumbent.

Curiously, FreeDOS exists as a stable, drop-in replacement for MS-DOS, as if ReactOS succeeded in its mission sometime in the mid-tens. Just imagine if a kind time traveller could have gone back to 1994 and offered the source code for FreeDOS!

[Lucio Chiappetti]

At work we regularly buy machines with Freedos installed, which we junk to install Linux over it. When I retired I did the same, from the same supplier, for my home desktop amd laptop

[andyprough]

Í had bought my spare computer, the one with a missing charger, two years ago from an independent German online shop. (Although I am content with my purchase, I will not name the vendor, for my purpose here is not promotional.) It was refurbished, and the site order form offered a variety of mainstream distros or a slight fee (€30?) for installing another one. I have never seen a desktop or laptop computer with Linux installed at any of the major electronics shops, whether in Germany or the USA.

I've been getting computers for a few years from a laptop maker in the Netherlands called NovaCustom (I'll go ahead and promote them because they make me happy and why not?). They say on their website that they'll charge for installing a distro that isn't on their list, but they always install MX for me for no extra charge. I get these computers not because they come with MX, but because they use the open source Dasharo Coreboot firmware in place of the non-free BIOS that all the big computer makers use, and because Dasharo Coreboot allows certain features such as disabling the Intel Management Engine on the CPU. Another computer maker in the US that makes some similar Corebooted systems is System76.

Not many like these computer makers around. Some of the big computer makers will offer to sell you a laptop with Ubuntu on it at a premium price, like the Dell XPS. But it's hard to see why I would want to pay more money for a computer without Windows on it - I could just buy the Windows version for cheaper and put MX or Trisquel or some other distro on it.

[Mæstro]

Not many like these computer makers around. Some of the big computer makers will offer to sell you a laptop with Ubuntu on it at a premium price, like the Dell XPS. But it's hard to see why I would want to pay more money for a computer without Windows on it - I could just buy the Windows version for cheaper and put MX or Trisquel or some other distro on it.

They charge more because they can. The manufacturer thinks he can charge any amount up to the licencing fee he pays Microsoft for an OEM Windows 11 installation, and someone choosing Linux simply for the price would, in the world of orthodox economics if not reality, still see himself as enjoying an advantage. Windows 11, from what i have heard, resists being replaced with Linux more fiercely than older versions, and lay users might not wish to bother bumbling about in the UEFI settings.

---

Browsing through Xkcd at random caused this old gem to resurface. Twenty years on, I have got a start menu and My Documents folder in Cinnamon. I wish we had our own web portal with keywords.

[Night Wing]

There is a German company which builds Linux computers and the company's name is; Tuxedo Computers.

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

Tuxedo also builds their own linux distro too. It is Tuxedo OS.

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-OS_1.tuxedo

Also, there is an American company named, System76 which build computers for Linux.

https://system76.com/

System76 also builds a linux distro which is named; Pop_OS.

https://system76.com/pop/

[Night Wing]

At the time of this posting, I am now using MX Linux 25.1 (Infinity) Xfce.

I have also just finished downloading and flashed MX Linux 25.1 (Infinity) Xfce iso to a flash/thumb drive. For those interested, MX had separate ISOs for systemd and sysvinit when MX Linux 25 was released. But in MX Linux 25.1, both systemd and sysvinit are now on the "same iso". Reason being, this provided less work for the MX developers and maintainers.

After a quick, one-week beta testing phase, MX Linux 25.1 is now available for download based on the latest Debian 13.3 “Trixie” operating system and featuring the long-term supported Linux 6.12 LTS kernel on the standard ISOs and Linux 6.18 LTS on the AHS (Advanced Hardware Support) ISOs.

The biggest attraction of the MX Linux 25.1 release, compared to MX Linux 25, is the dual-init support, which means that both systemd and SysVinit are now included in the ISO images, allowing users to choose the init system they want to boot MX Linux with from the live boot menu of the live system.

[Mæstro]

But in MX Linux 25.1, both systemd and sysvinit are now on the "same iso".

This is genius. It would make checking whether avoiding Systemd reduces system load in noticeable ways in a manner which makes it both easy meaningfully to test and to withdraw to safety if anything goes wrong. Perhaps I could try running MX and then install Antix or Debian over it depending on how important the init proves to be, or perhaps this experiment would result in me making MX + Debian ELTS my distro of choice for the thirties, the information thus gained informing me for my choice in the forties.

[Night Wing]

Both systemd and sysvinit were in the same iso "before" which was the norm. But the warring factions had "loud" voices so a consensus was reached to make two different isos' to "appease" the warring factions.

So it was split and test them both in beta. One for systemd and one for sysvinit. But it was too much work for the developers and maintainers so it "reverted" back to having "both" in the same iso again.

Like the old adage goes. "The more things change, the more things stay the same".

[UCyborg]

I think the way Linux saves old hardware, speaking as somebody for whom it has saved mine, is subtler.

I guess basics usually work, it's just for the things I do most of the time, I get more out of my hardware on Windows. I do use (desktop) Linux, just not in a day-to-day life.

It seems Linux often has better I/O performance. But I don't often do things needing it and I can usually wait when I do.

[Mæstro]

I get more out of my hardware on Windows. I do use (desktop) Linux, just not in a day-to-day life.
It seems Linux often has better I/O performance. But I don't often do things needing it and I can usually wait when I do.

I have commented before about how Windows 7’s power management was preferable, and I imagine there is some software out there which would have been easier to run if I were still using it, but that is as far as it goes for me. Although I am using a laptop, I do not use its inbuilt keyboard or trackpad, but a mechanical keyboard and graphic tablet connected by USB cables. On disconnexion or if the cable fails, which can occur if the input device is shifted, Cinnamon can freeze for up to a few seconds. If the connexion is weak, it can freeze until disconnected altogether. I do not recall this happening with Windows 7.

[frostknight]

I have commented before about how Windows 7’s power management was preferable, and I imagine there is some software out there which would have been easier to run if I were still using it, but that is as far as it goes for me. Although I am using a laptop, I do not use its inbuilt keyboard or trackpad, but a mechanical keyboard and graphic tablet connected by USB cables. On disconnexion or if the cable fails, which can occur if the input device is shifted, Cinnamon can freeze for up to a few seconds. If the connexion is weak, it can freeze until disconnected altogether. I do not recall this happening with Windows 7.

Its worth noting, I think very little of all Desktop Environments... this being said, Cinnamon and anything Gnome3ish or newer makes me yuck especially a lot.


Never really used cinnamon either, but I have heard people say it has problems. I don't recommend it.

[Mæstro]

I also think Luna and Aero look fine, so make of my statement what you will.

[moonbat]

I also think Luna and Aero look fine, so make of my statement what you will.

Aero was peak desktop experience, as was Windows 7 compared to other versions of the OS. KDE Plasma is a worthy successor with a Windows 7 theme.

[UCyborg]

Can you get Compiz working on something other than MATE these days? if you can even get it working at all... Windows' Aero is also distinguished by pixel shader blurring effect on titlebars...can KDE do that?

Something I like about Cinammon, you get thumbnail previews on minimized windows. If I remember, you could enable that on Compiz, though it's possible that something was bugged about it that I don't recall. You couldn't click on the thumbnail though.

KDE was the most functional desktop I tried so far, though its compositor's performance is horrendous on NVIDIA...

One thing I also have on Windows, QTTabBar allows preview of media files by hovering on them, both audio and video. Though I did see support for audio preview on Nautilus a while ago.

I think resistance to hardware related faults varies between different systems in different places.

[Night Wing]

Can you get Compiz working on something other than MATE these days?

I do not use Compiz. Although MX Linux does not officially support Compiz, a person can still get it in Xfce which is MX's official desktop environment. It would have to be installed by the user in MX. The use of the Synaptic Package Manager and the Terminal are mentioned.

Below is a video of how to do it. The video is old since it deals with MX 19.3, but the instructions still work and should work in the present version of MX (25.1).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsH8Vs2TGfY