[Vent] Being Pale Moon user is frustrating

[back2themoon]

Yes, there are issues but we are nowhere near a breaking point. My suggestions for fellow Pale Moon users:

1. Very carefully tune uBO and eMatrix. Study them. They can greatly improve performance. Learn how to identify problem scripts that may drag down your favourite website(s) and block them (the scripts). AI can help you at first, but be on top of it and never trust it blindly. Don't overdo it.
About uBO filterlists: less is more. Do not overdo it. Study them and see exactly what they are meant for. Some variants are less useful than others. Don't use the "Hosts files" section in eMatrix, keep uBO for that. uBO shows the total number of network and cosmetic filters on top of the "Filter lists" section. Keep those numbers as low as possible.

2. Keep your extensions to an absolute minimum. You might not be aware, but your favourite extension(s) may be dragging Pale Moon down. Check about:performance and try uninstalling some of them.

3. Do not fight with websites that are known to have performance issues on Pale Moon. Accept the "defeat" and bookmark them in another browser. You can even open their links directly from Pale Moon (and Epyrus) in another browser, using your favourite "Open With" extension. You will save time and frustration. And yes, you can install an "Open With Pale Moon" extension on those other browsers to quickly get out of there!

4. This is more exotic but may work well for multi-core systems: use the excellent Process Lasso (or similar) to apply CPU Affinities on Pale Moon and isolate it from other programs, applying on those other, non-interfering CPU Affinities, or CPU Sets.

I'm sure there are other ways to further squeeze performance out of PM. I have it working pretty damn well on my super-powerful for its time CPU. That's 2007.

The above might sound like too much work, but it's not really that involved once you master the process.

[back2themoon]

This comes from AI, so take it with a grain of salt. It does sound interesting though and further comments are welcome.

It's about nsIContentPolicy ordering. Both eMatrix/uBO implement nsIContentPolicy and according to AI:

"Pale Moon calls nsIContentPolicy handlers in the order the extensions were installed (first installed = first to intercept)."

So, for both privacy and performance it'd be preferable to first have eMatrix deal with network requests. uBO second. Their current order can be verified in extensions.json (whichever is mentioned first, comes first). Do not alter this file, only read it.

Again, this is all AI. It does sound logical, but...? And obviously, a lot depends on your eMatrix/uBO specific configuration.

I had uBO first in extensions.json, so here's the process to reverse the order. I've confirmed the reversal works:

1. Backup eMatrix/uBO settings.
2. Disable/enable won't work. Uninstall both extensions and restart Pale Moon.
3. Install eMatrix first and restart PM.
4. Install uBO second and restart PM - done.
5. Restore eMatrix/uBO settings (shouldn't be needed - uninstall does not delete their settings)
6. Look for any performance improvements.

[Gemmaugr]

It does sound interesting though and further comments are welcome.

It does, and would track with how I've perceived their operations. https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=32620

I've only one question. Where do I find extensions.json? (It's not in the install location folders, or the user/app data/moonchild folders)

[back2themoon]

It's in the profile folder. Should be right above the formhistory.sqlite file (when a-z sorted, obviously). I am on Windows by the way, don't know if Linux/Mac may vary.

Looking at your linked topic, it looks a lot like a configuration issue and this suggestion here most probably won't solve that. You certainly shouldn't "have to allow everything in uBO to get eMatrix to do its thing."

Nothing "breaks" if uBO comes first, although perhaps your specific configuration triggers something. Worth a try.

[Gemmaugr]

It's in the profile folder. Should be right above the formhistory.sqlite file (when a-z sorted, obviously). I am on Windows by the way, don't know if Linux/Mac may vary.

Looking at your linked topic, it looks a lot like a configuration issue and this suggestion here most probably won't solve that. You certainly shouldn't "have to allow everything in uBO to get eMatrix to do its thing."

Nothing "breaks" if uBO comes first, although perhaps your specific configuration triggers something. Worth a try.

I found it. It was in app data/roaming, not app data/local btw, and eMatrix comes before uBO in the JSON.

My "issue" is somewhat solved, for now. It wasn't a configuration problem as I hadn't changed anything and it worked well before it happened. Most likely it was a filter list update or the browser update that changed the addon order..somehow..

[Moonchild]

app data/roaming is where everything non-volatile goes for applications (which includes your browser profile).

Off-topic:
why is it called "roaming", you may wonder? Well, that's from the terminology in use for organizational windows use: Data a user has in roaming would "roam with them" as they would move between computers, i.e. tied to their user account and not to the workstation. Facilitated by Windows Server as domain controller, usually. Yes, in larger organizations requiring seamless transition between workstations this is very much desirable. now, many companies would make the computers mobile instead (company laptops) but there is a fully integrated solution to it.

[UCyborg]

Extensions may not be as much about quantity, rather than what they do. uBlock and GreaseMonkey typically always show red when any page is loading, Reddit Enhancement Suite does so when loading old.reddit.com, Tab Mix Plus lights up when moving tabs around, CuteButtons tends to be a bit random (though its CSS is considerably degrading when it comes to UI responsiveness, makes you wonder if it could be optimized or that's just how it is, today's Firefox CSS offerings to add icons to menus options / buttons don't seem to have any noticeable impact).

I came across another oddity for the first time today, somehow about:support page started to full load one CPU core, it took seconds for UI to respond to anything, took seconds for single letter to show up in this forum text box when I was typing. I only had this forum opened, (old) Reddit, about:support and about:performance, the latter which I detached from the only window I had opened and moved it to new window on second screen. Seems to have occurred shortly after moving the about:performance tab. I figured it was about:support since I started closing tabs one by one and it returned to normal after about:support was closed.

I used to use 2 extensions for content blocking, but I don't do that anymore. Been there, done that, 1 is good enough and I don't like messing with filters more than I have to. Besides, most things I'm concerned about can't be fixed by blocking random resources.

[back2themoon]

Tab Mix Plus lights up when moving tabs around

Perhaps Tab Utilities Phoenix is preferable. Never had issues with it.

[frostknight]

1) I DON'T TAKE KINDLY TO MY INSTALLED EXTENSIONS BEING REMOVED.
2) I DON'T WANT TO USE THE PLAY STORE OR ANY GOOGLE SITES, EVER.
Capiche!?

AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU TALKING IN ALL CAPS!

Seriously though, joking aside, why are you talking in all caps?

[moonbat]

Seriously though, joking aside, why are you talking in all caps?

First day on the net, probably.

[Enobarbous]

Tab Mix Plus lights up when moving tabs around, CuteButtons tends to be a bit random ... I came across another oddity for the first time today, somehow about:support page started to full load one CPU core, it took seconds for UI to respond to anything, took seconds for single letter to show up in this forum text box when I was typing. .. Besides, most things I'm concerned about can't be fixed by blocking random resources.

How familiar this sounds... I remember when this was a regular pain. I can't say I managed to overcome all the problems completely, but I did manage to alleviate the symptoms. So, here are a few suggestions that more or less reconciled me to the reality of palemoon (apologies in advance if you've already tried any of these):
1) One of the main ones, unfortunately: stop using Tab Mix Plus. It's a cool, awesome addon that does a lot of useful and convenient things, but... it lags. Major slowdowns are rare and irregular, but micro-freezes happen often. And of course, when it lags, it freezes everything.
When I gave up on this add-on and switched to a set of CSS styles and a bunch of Custom Buttons, the browser interface became noticeably smoother. But how much time did it take to write/test these styles and find/fix the necessary buttons...
2) This may sound a little funny and silly, but I'm not the only one who has observed this effect: sometimes you need to recreate your profile from scratch. Seriously, if you create a new profile and transfer all your extensions/bookmarks/settings to it 1-to-1, you can often see a responsiveness boost.
I can't recommend this to everyone, but my personal experience has shown that creating a new profile every milestone or after about a year of use is quite optimal. It rarely takes more than half an hour, so even if it's a placebo effect...
3) Settings from here, primarily javascript.options.mem.gc_generational. It has little effect on interface performance, but helps when using "fat" websites. However, memory consumption naturally increases.

...and as I write all this, I realize once again that if it weren't for font rendering and the ability to customize the interface, I would probably have already switched browsers. Unfortunately (fortunately?), that's not really an option...

[UCyborg]

Never suspected anything about Tab Mix Plus. I'm not using much features from it I think. I did setup Pale Moon from scratch on two other OS installs in recent times, general responsiveness is about the same as on the usual old profile. I did stop using NoSquint a while back because it breaks something in the browser, if a video is opened directly in the browser, controls are missing. Not something I need often, but enough to bug me.

Zoom Label is good enough, but even that, I had to dig into it since the label is broken, its label is actually a button hacked to look like a label (even though an actual label element can be used) and with my setup, it effectively causes wrong color to be used for text, so it's not readable, should be white instead of staying black.

[back2themoon]

I did stop using NoSquint a while back because it breaks something in the browser, if a video is opened directly in the browser, controls are missing. Not something I need often, but enough to bug me.

Yes, it's a known unresolved bug. It was suggested here that the issue first appeared with Pale Moon 27.1.0, while the previous 27.0.3 was fine. I don't remember if Moonchild looked at this detail. Perhaps it's worth revisiting, NoSquint is too important.

For those that don't need this feature often, setting media.play-stand-alone to false is enough to bypass the issue. (old discussion)

[UCyborg]

Oh, didn't know it was already discussed. I have the habit of going with most feature rich software options at first, just in case, even if I end up using only a small portion in the end. And in this case, I only really want to know, if I changed zoom, to what I've set it.

With all the options in stock Pale Moon, not having zoom level shown strikes me as an odd omission.

*Incoming philosophical arguments why this and that should / shouldn't be in the browser...

[back2themoon]

With all the options in stock Pale Moon, not having zoom level shown strikes me as an odd omission.

Stock Pale Moon does have the feature and zoom levels are remembered per site. They are not as detailed as NoSquint's, but they are present. Worth remembering:

a) NoSquint disables Pale Moon's internal zooming feature. You need to disable/uninstall NS to get it back.
b) NoSquint stores everything in about:config. Pale Moon stores its Zoom levels as Site Preferences I think, which makes them a bit more prone to deletion via the Clear All History prompt and 3rd-party "cleaning" programs.

[UCyborg]

Am I missing something? Can I see somewhere in GUI to what % zoom level is set? Basilisk shows it in URL bar if zoom level is set to other than 100%.

[back2themoon]

I am not 100% sure, but I don't think the level numbers are visible in the UI. I seem to remember there was an extension that revealed them, but I am not sure of that either. I am not even sure if the native Zoom system uses the percentage system as displayed by NoSquint.

However, they are definitively stored in content-prefs.sqlite and remembered. You can either use the "Zoom Controls" icon or the View/Zoom Menu controls. You'll also find the "Zoom Text Only" setting there.

[UCyborg]

Native buttons to zoom in/out only have descriptive text for zoom in/out, hence I use the extension to show actual zoom level. Probably the author wouldn't bother making extension if he found the option natively.

[back2themoon]

Ok, but the main thing is the actual zooming effect, based on what is comfortable to each user's eyes, specific monitor/resolution/website etc. Not the zoom level percentage indication.

It's helpful having it of course, but not crucial. Personally, I use NS not for the percentage indicators but because I prefer about:config for storing the zoom settings. And for the additional flexibility of separate Global/Text zoom levels per website.

[UCyborg]

Yesterday's memory report, taken 10 minutes after closing every other tab:

report.json.gz

The browser ended in CPU spiking loop.