Linux Mint 22 and Palemoon

[Night Wing]

@ Pregio03

I am going to let you keep experimenting on your own.

As for your problem with YouTube, like I said you cannot have lots of tabs open from other sites since those sites have their own "stuff" on those tabs which can cause problems for the Pale Moon browser when you are on YouTube.

I am on YouTube everyday and I have no problems using YouTube with my "not installed" linux Pale Moon running in Mint 22 (Wilma) Xfce. I already have the newest 64 bit linux version of Pale Moon which, at the time of this post, is (33.3.1). I have also spent at least two hours on YouTube today and no problems with YT.

YouTube puts lots and lots of cookies in Pale Moon. I have a feeling YouTube has put a lot of cookies in your Pale Moon.

You want to see how many? If you are using the Menu Bar; left click on Tools. When the drop down menu opens up, left click on Permissions. This will open the Permissions Manager. In there, look at the left side and you will see a list of sites.

Find YouTube and left click on it's address. When you do, you will see all the Permissions for YouTube which will be on the right and they are:

1) Passwords
2) Load Images
3) Open Pop-Up Windows
4) Store Cookies and Site Data
5) Show Notifications
6) Install Extensions or Themes
7) Share Location

Each Permission for YouTube will have: Allow, Block and sometimes Always Ask.

Since I do not have a YouTube account, I am never logged into YouTube. With no account, using the Permissions Manager, I first "removed all" of the cookies for YouTube. Then for Store Cookies and Site Data, I chose "Block". Then for Open Pop-Up Windows, the setting I chose is "Block" again. Nothing was changed for the other items in the list above.

The only ad I ever see is usually at the bottom of my external monitor on the page with the YouTube video and the ad is for YouTube TV. I dismiss that. And that is the only ad I see on YouTube. And my "old" uBlock Origin (1.16.4.30) adblocker is always enabled for YouTube.

If you "have" a YouTube account, then you "cannot" use what I have done for YouTube.

[Massacre]

If CPU usage spikes when actually playing the video, then you don't have hardware accelerated video decoding. Disabling WebM and AV1 support (preferences->content->media) could help if only h264 hardware video decoding is supported.

[Pregio03]

Hey Lads, its been a few hours of digging into many other threads about issues relating to LM22. From this i have begun to compile a set of useful terminal commands to use to investigate the system to see what is really going on and why.
Issues arising from either upgrading to LM22 or fresh install range from slow start up times to the system becoming slow, non responsive or force shut down of apps, and similar to what i have seen -

Palemoon will seem fine for a few minutes then getting slow non responsive and force quits. Sure in Palemoon there comes about the lag/non-responsiveness / force quits whereas brave browser doesnt have the identical issue to my mind is because of different approaches to programming, neither right nor wrong, to my mind in LM22 there is kernel/driver issues and all palemoon did was to show there was in fact an underlying problem. in the linux mint forums at https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum. ... &start=100 are a lot of threads with varied issues

While i was in a journalctl process, i did see two errors come up with regard to noveau? graphics....others have found issues relating to network cards/drivers or usb issues causing timeouts or slow system.
A few hours ago i did another fresh install of LM22 cinnamon and quickly had the very same problems, then fresh installed LM22 xfce and same thing. I have now done a fresh install of LM21 - have some 10 tabs open and youtube playing no problems.

There seems to be kernel / driver issues in LM22 on some systems, this is why some will have an ok install and others discover problems. Time is limited to keep looking into this and as there is no absolute need to have the newest version i will just keep to LM21 until LM22 has a few more updates.

[smithy]

LM 22 Xfce seems to have more issues than it’s worth.
I had problems with the panel and eventually gave up and went back to 21.2.
It’s as though the Xfce developers released a half finished finished version, bugs and all.

[Night Wing]

LM 22 Xfce seems to have more issues than it’s worth.
I had problems with the panel and eventually gave up and went back to 21.2.

Generalizations like you posted above do not help us if you are running linux Pale Moon in Mint 22. For some reason some users never give any "specific" details why they are having problems and just give up and move back to an older version like you have (21.2).

The OP who started this topic wants to solve his problem "by doing it his way" and not wanting to try something else. Like when he ran 22 Xfce as an experiment and immediately ran into the same problem, but didn't come back here when he ran into his problem. His way was to immediately go back to version 21 Cinnamon.

When he loaded Mint 22 Xfce as an experiment, he should have come back here right then and get in touch with me because I use Mint 22 Xfce. But he didn't.

I have no problems with Xfce and linux Pale Moon. I use the same method with linux Pale Moon 33.3.1 on Mint 22 Xfce, MX Linux 23.3 Xfce and Debian 12.7 Xfce. I will say this. I do not know if my method for linux Pale Moon will work with Cinnamon or Mate because I do not use those desktop environments in Mint.

There is another way which I have not mentioned, but I am not going to mention it to the OP or you because it will immediately raise "paranoia" flags. In other words, a trust issue.

I have made this offer before on this site to others and one "brave" soul took me up on my offer. His user name on this site is "TwoTankAdmin" when he wanted to go from Windows 7 to linux Mint because he did not like Windows 10 and he wanted to use linux Mint with linux Pale Moon.

What I told him to do "worked", but in the end he found he liked Windows 7 better than Linux Mint and wanted to stay on Windows 7. He told me he would never go to Windows 10......................but he did.

[Moonchild]

Generalizations like you posted above do not help us if you are running linux Pale Moon in Mint 22.

Actually, they do. They indicate that there's a more systematic problem with LM22 than something just in combination with Pale Moon. From the various posts in this thread there does seem to be a much broader problem, although some things depending on the system it's installed on.

[Night Wing]

@ Moonchild

When it comes to linux Pale Moon and Xfce, those who are having problems with Mint 22, did they use Travis' builds or did they use Steven Pusser's builds? Did they install linux Pale Moon or did they used my method which is not installed.

I have two very old 14" HP laptops circa manufactured in 2012, 2013 (dv4-5113cl, dv4-5213cl) and two desktop tower computers. One of the tower computers originally came with Windows 8 installed on it. The other desktop was also old, but I liked the case. I gutted the inside of that computer and put in a completely updated and new motherboard, new 12th generation Intel i7 processor, new heat sink, new power supply, etc.

All four computer of these computers run 64 bit linux Pale Moon GTK2 builds from Travis (trava90) in three different linux distros using Xfce which you can see in my signature. And I have never had a problem with Travis' builds for linux Pale Moon.

With four different computers with the Xfce desktop environment, if there was a problem with Xfce, would you consider it a good possibility I would encounter a problem with Xfce?

I have never used Pusser's builds at all. Playing "Devil's Advocate", could there be a possibility there could be a problem with Pusser's builds for linux Pale Moon? And I know Pusser uses the MX Linux 23.3 distro. But I am not sure if Pusser uses linux Pale Moon on MX Linux. On their forums site, there is no indication what browser Pusser uses.

There is also the possibility of user error too. Just saying. Lots of factors to consider.

[smithy]

Night Wing" post_id=255048 time=1726141231 user_id=372]

Generalizations like you posted above do not help us if you are running linux Pale Moon in Mint 22. For some reason some users never give any "specific" details why they are having problems and just give up and move back to an older version like you have (21.2).

Fwiw, I ran Pale moon on LM22 xfce with no issues.
The issue I had was with the xfce version of LM22, which had nothing to do with Pale moon and I saw no reason to ask for help with it here.
I was pointing out there maybe other issues with LM22..

Don’t know whose rattled your cage..🙄

[Night Wing]

Don’t know whose rattled your cage..🙄

You did.

Look at your first post which I quoted parts of and it is below.

I had problems with the panel and eventually gave up and went back to 21.2.
It’s as though the Xfce developers released a half finished finished version, bugs and all.

The OP is having problems with linux Pale Moon and YouTube in Mint 22. When you made your post with the Panel problem in this topic, you hijacked the topic thread. Since you've been on here just a little over four years, you know better or should know not to do that and this is what "rattled my cage".

Off-topic:
BTW. When you made that post, you never stated specifically what problems you had with the Panel in Mint 22 using Xfce on the Pale Moon Forums site. Your "I had problems with the Panel" and never stating in detail what the problem was or problems were in my opinion...........is a generalization in the way I think. I need and like "details" when it comes to information.

If you want to discuss your problems with Mint 22 and the Panel in Xfce................kindly make a new topic because since I use Xfce, I might be able to help. And the key word is "might" because I am not a power user. If I cannot solve the problem, I will tell you so. But I do not have problems using Xfce in Mint 22 whether it be with Pale Moon or other things. And an example is below.

One of those "other" things was when Redshift was suddenly deprecated on June 12th and would no longer work anymore in (21.3). Another method had to be found to replace Redshift. I found that I could use a utility program named "sct" to do so. But I had to install the utility program since it was not installed by default in 21.3 to dim the light in my 32" external monitor without using my monitor's buttons/settings. Ditto for my two laptops.

And when 22 came along, sct was deprecated and would no longer work in 22, but "xsct" would work so I had to install it since it was in Mint's repository. It just took a little more digging on my part since xsct was the replacement for sct in 22.

[Pregio03]

Everyone, take a pause.

Why I posted is because I really do appreciate the efforts it takes to maintain and keep developing Palemoon, but , how exactly can I help it along and be proactive?
First is by asking questions,
second, do not expect to be right,
third, be flexible as this is like an apprenticeship - a learning.

In my opinion: every issue arising may not necessarily due to the coding or programming issue with Palemoon itself.

So, coming from a varied technical background, I sought to raise an issue, but to learn from it from the feedback without being attached to any response.
Read my previous post.

There are a number of mentions surrounding upstream issues regarding Linux Mint 22, such as: https://linuxiac.com/cinnamon-6-4-to-de ... ult-theme/

" Transitioning from Mint 21.3 to 22 posed challenges due to package conflicts stemming from upstream changes in Ubuntu 24.04, specifically with the Samba and LibreOffice packages.

These issues were linked to the broader transition of Debian unstable packages being frozen for the Ubuntu release, compounded by a delay in the Ubuntu 24.04 release to address a critical issue known as the XZ backdoor.

The Mint team has been working to resolve these conflicts and has re-tested the upgrade path multiple times since their last update. "

The posts in here are helpful for me personally, for example, this page i would guess the information gets taken for granted because most wont know just how to find out, let me show you:
http://www.palemoon.org/systemrequirements.shtml
ale Moon is specifically optimized for current-day processors and as such requires a reasonably modern system to run properly. See also hardware requirements above. Especially for Linux, often used on very old hardware, this is a point of note.

System requirements:

A modern Linux distribution. The browser may not work well on old or LTS releases of Linux.
2GB of RAM (4GB or more recommended for heavy use).
GTK 2.24 or GTK 3.22+, depending on which version you download. GTK4 is not supported.
GLib 2.56 or higher
Pango 1.42 or higher
libstdc++ 4.6.1 or higher

so, how would i know whether my system meets any and all of those needs? simple, be ok with being wrong, read, research and find out some things like:
in terminal enter:
apt list --installed libgtk*
will display which version of libgtk are actually installed.
Does my install meet the requirements? yes or no nothing else

in terminal enter:
dpkg -l | egrep "libgtk(2.0-0|-3-0|-4)"
will list the libgtk- libraries installed.
Does my install meet the requirements? yes or no nothing else

Which version of Pango is installed?
dpkg -l '*pango*'
Does my install meet the requirements? yes or no nothing else

which version of libstdc++ is installed?
in terminal:
apt-cache search -n libstdc++
Does my install meet the requirements? yes or no nothing else

These examples are not absolute, but by the responses in this thread is what I have learnt in developing a structured fault finding method.

[moonbat]

All I can say is, I was using Pale Moon on Mint 22 until switching to a new laptop with KDE Neon a couple of weeks ago, and had no problems. In fact I've been using PM comfortably on my old laptop since Mint 19.3, upgrading to each major revision of Mint since then. Whatever the problem, it's not with Mint 22 or Pale Moon.

[Pregio03]

All I can say is, I was using Pale Moon on Mint 22 until switching to a new laptop with KDE Neon a couple of weeks ago, and had no problems. In fact I've been using PM comfortably on my old laptop since Mint 19.3, upgrading to each major revision of Mint since then. Whatever the problem, it's not with Mint 22 or Pale Moon.

Then the question remains, with zero custom changes done in either mint or xfce for example, why do i see any issue....despite anything else, what am aiming to zero in to is.....what if there could plausibly be a specific hardware driver issue only for some people and not others, i will find out when more time is at hand..I have seen some errors pop up in the error console of LM22 as well but not specifically to Palemoon. As a learning curve because not all of us are linux pros, i did read a Lm22 issue thread recently where the issues experienced by the user when, guided by knowledge, found an actual hardware issue related to the network causung stuttering and timeouts...this is a process not alike for everyone with all variants of hardware imho.

Respectfully, where my view is:
Sure some will say " look at me all is fine so there is something wrong with you" implication
but
we do not have a structured investigative approach to unravel what may me the real cause, this is why i want o spend time to work out, what are all the necessary steps to isolate what COULD BE A COMPLEX ISSUE.
yes I will approach this my way fault o not. Looking at many linux threads there is a lot of good information scattered about, so, how can i compile something useful as a step by step process to isolate and eliminate to get to the cause.

[Pregio03]

To give an anology, somewhat, to this issue.
>greater than 10 yrs ago I was tasked with replacing an intercom system whose cabling was integrated with an active alarm system, those whom did the initial investigation and quotation to replace the old hardware passed to me the required details to upgrade the intercom hardware as no other neighbour had any similar problem.

Upon completion of replacing older hardware with newer hardware, I discovered there remained the same existing problem with the intercom system.
So each and every cable to and from both the alarm system and intercom were traced.

By a systemic approach what did i find.?

I found that the fixing screws for the main intercom control panel interface into the recessed wall fixing were too long and thus had only just shorted two wires whose location of being brought down from the ceiling into the centre of the recessed wall flush box were exactly in line with the fixing screws......had the initial installer fitted a standard shorter wall plate fixing screw would have eliminated the problem bot by using a standard extended length unknowingly introduced an intermittent problem that imitated faulty hardware.

[Night Wing]

yes I will approach this my way fault o not. Looking at many linux threads there is a lot of good information scattered about, so, how can i compile something useful as a step by step process to isolate and eliminate to get to the cause.

You started this thread on August 17th. Today is September 14th. You've spent over three weeks "doing it your way" and your way is not working. The Cinnamon desktop is totally different than Xfce.

As an example.

This morning I flashed a Mint 22 Cinnamon iso, which can be used "Live" just like Xfce can, onto a thumb drive so I could play with Cinnamon in Live mode. Long story short. The things I do in Xfce in Live mode with Pale Moon and which work.......did not work in Cinnamon in Live mode.

I find Xfce easier to work with when it comes to Pale Moon "maybe" because I have been using Pale Moon in Mint Xfce since January of 2014. This encompasses Mint 14 to Mint 22 (I did skip Mint 15).

When you installed Mint 22 Xfce, you tried it your way and when it did not work, instead of keeping 22 with Xfce and coming here for help with Xfce in 22, you "immediately" went back to Mint 21 (and mostly likely Cinnamon) instead of coming here.

Like I mentioned previously, there is a way to find out if the problem is with you (user error), your hardware, Cinnamon or Xfce. But as long as you are adamant about using Mint 22 with Cinnamon and Pale Moon, I cannot help you. When it comes to Pale Moon, my way works in Xfce.

One last thing. My way involves a lot of steps for the first time when Pale Moon is not installed in Mint 22 Xfce. Typing all of those steps in a forum message is like typing an extremely long manuscript. Leave out one step and it will not work.

There is an easier way, but I know you would not go for it because you want to do things your way so this is why I am not going to mention it. But I will give you a hint. It involves a utility program which is an AppImage which is not installed on your computer. And this AppImage is a "trust" issue.

And one person who was having problems like you, changed his mind and did it my way and it solved his problems with Pale Moon in Mint Xfce. But he gave up on Linux and went back to Windows 7 and eventually upgraded to Windows 10.

In closing, if you keep trying and never find the answer, you will use Pale Moon in Mint 21 and never upgrade to Mint 22. Or...........you can go to Mint 22 and when the problem arises again in 22 with Pale Moon and YouTube, your best solution for YouTube............. is a backup brower.