Paypal controversy and alternatives

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-10-31, 14:47

So did I understand his post correctly and they really do live in stone ages in this regard? :shock:

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-10-31, 14:56

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-10-31, 14:00
[If you are sending money to a foreign country, you use IBAN code instead of account number.
And this doesn't cost anything
Well, in Italy you type in the IBAN for all transfers, domestic and other SEPA countries. And you pay (depending on the bank, e.g) 1 euro (both for domestic and SEPA nowadays) unless it is a branch of your own bank organization. And is not instantaneous (I believe they are all settled at 17:30 of the day unless you specify a later date), unless you pay extra (ticking a "switch" on the site).
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-10-31, 22:03

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-10-31, 14:47
So did I understand his post correctly and they really do live in stone ages in this regard? :shock:
Off-topic:
Yeah, in the US it's normal for a wire transfer to be between $15 and $30, and for an international wire transfer I've paid as much as $40 because some other countries use that as a standard form of payment and won't take anything else. Which means I have to pay another $40 just for the privilege of paying them.

There is a system in the US called ACH (Automated Clearing House), that is used for clearing checks, money orders, and debit cards (when they are not used as credit cards), but for reasons I'm not fully aware of, you usually can't use any of those payment options online. Almost all the digital infrastructure is built on the credit card company networks outside of direct deposit from an employer, or utility bill payments. That is, I've never heard of using a debit card AS a debit card to pay for anything online or send money to an individual. The majority of debit cards can also be used as credit cards and go through those payment networks, with the associated fees. In person, you are given the option to insert your card into a card reader, input your bank account PIN, and send money directly from your bank instead, but most people don't do it, and online you don't have that option at all and it invariably goes through the credit card side of things.

Zelle represents a serious attempt by major banks to change things. In fact, it's the thing being integrated into banking apps to do exactly what you suggested... here's their marketing, and it gives you a very clear idea of what the situation is without it:

"Zelle® is a great way to send money to friends and family, even if they bank somewhere different than you do."

Which means... the default is that there is no easy/cheap way to send money to someone who banks at a different bank than you do. PayPal/Venmo are popular because they effectively do an end-run around the banking system and gives you an account that you can sweep funds in and out from as if it were a linked bank account/retirement fund. The way the system is setup now, it is easier/cheaper to transfer the funds from your bank, to PayPal, send money to your friend's PayPal, and then have them transfer the money back into their bank, than to send money directly from one account to another. It's still a problem for anyone who banks at a credit union or a smaller bank that isn't setup to take advantage of the Zelle system setup by the major banks. It's not really a big issue that people complain about because PayPal is reasonably cheap and most people do bank with a large bank, so really only the people that don't like PayPal and bank with a credit union have gotten angry about the situation.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-11-01, 00:40

In Australia, there's a PayID that you can create with your bank's help, linked to your mobile number and/or email address. Anyone who wants to send you money can just specify one of these, and the system will show them the name you have set to identify yourself so that there's no confusion. Easiest and quickest way to pay without having to remember bank account numbers.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-11-01, 19:05

@athenian200
Holy shit. That's incredible in 2022 in one of the leading economies of the world.

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-01, 19:52

Off-topic:
@athenian200 I'm dealing with ACH wire transfers for my DDG partnership and yes it costs $20/transfer (+ more on the receiving side from my bank since the $20 is for shared costs) so yes I can confirm those ballpark amounts you mention which is why PayPal is so important for accepting donations for me.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Tharthan » 2022-11-06, 02:40

So did I understand his post correctly and they really do live in stone ages in this regard? :shock:
You might also be surprised to know that how Americans pay for things is actually somewhat complicated. Attitudes depend somewhat upon what state one lives in, as well (as well as *where* in what state one lives in).

I wouldn't be surprised if in many parts of America, cash use for regular purchases is on track to become little used in the near future. But where I live (and, for the record, I don't live in some rural area in the Midwest or the South or anywhere like that) cash use is far from gone, and it's not on track to disappear anytime soon.

It is certainly true that lots and lots of especially younger people where I live have in recent years been opting almost entirely to use novel forms of payment. But not all do, and that choice also hasn't been limited to younger people alone.

No, where I live, how people choose to pay for things really runs the gamut.

It is not some crazy situation, for instance, to run into an older person who pays for lots of everyday things by means of one of the emerging alternative payment forms.

But on the other hand, it also isn't a crazy situation to run into a younger person who (for in person purchases) uses a mixture of cash and credit and/or debit card to make most of their payments. Online purchases are a different story. Most younger people, as athenian200 said, do usually use some kind of middleman rather than directly hand out their credit card information to individual online businesses.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by wavymoon » 2022-11-07, 17:31

It is worth noting that one of the reasons some of us (USA) use credit cards is the cash back option. I get 1 to 5 $ back for my transactions, depending on specials the CC comp offers. Debit cards are a real problem as there is little protection offered for problem transactions. Using my phone to pay, with the payment coming from my bank account would scare the heck out of me.
Blockchain transactions still are a risky adventure IMHO.


💰 But CASH is still KING the world wide 🤑 💸 💵 💶

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-07, 21:52

wavymoon wrote:
2022-11-07, 17:31
But CASH is still KING the world wide
Well you can send me cash in the mail too as a donation ;-)
Risks:
  1. It gets stolen
  2. Converting it to a fiat currency I can use locally costs more than anything else I can use
  3. Small amounts can't be converted, period
So... it's king with a few asterisks ;-)
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by TwoTankAmin » 2022-11-09, 17:35

I am one of those old folks. I started using paypal when I began keeping tropical fish in 2001. paypal was almost the only method used to buy fish from breeders and and other hobbyists. There is a site, (past its popularity) used to sell fish and the preferred method of payment for users was Paypal. So I got an account. Never had any problems over the years. I even began paying using it on non-fish related sites,

When I began breeding fish as part of my hobby, I had to sell the offspring. So I accepted payments using Paypal. I continued to do so until this year. What changed is the US govt. requires Paypal to report to the IRS anybody who receives $600 in "cash" any one year. So while I may still use Paypal to pay merchants from my checking account, I do not accept payments using it. Instead.
A new day is dawning for online sellers and individuals who collect transactions and fees through third-party payment processors. Beginning January 1, 2022, all third-party payment processors in the United States are required to report payments received for goods and services of more than $600 a year. This means if you’ve sold goods or conducted a business service and collected payment through Venmo, PayPal, Cash App, Square, Stripe, Etsy, or eBay, you will receive a 1099-K Payment Card and Third-Party Network Transactions Form, and that income will be reported to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

This new law was buried in the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 and primarily affects gig workers, independent contractors, and entrepreneurs with a side hustle. In the past, companies were only required to send an IRS Form 1099-K for gross payments exceeding $20,000 and more than 200 transactions within a calendar year. This changes that landscape dramatically.

The new law only applies to sellers who made money from goods or services. Even those individuals who periodically decide to empty their closets and sell their clothes on eBay will now be issued a 1099-K if the profits exceed $600 within a calendar year. The new law does NOT, however, apply to transactions among friends and family, such as when you send your friend $20 via Venmo to cover the cost of splitting a pizza.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by frostknight » 2022-11-26, 03:52

Moonchild wrote:
2022-11-01, 19:52
Off-topic:
@athenian200 I'm dealing with ACH wire transfers for my DDG partnership and yes it costs $20/transfer (+ more on the receiving side from my bank since the $20 is for shared costs) so yes I can confirm those ballpark amounts you mention which is why PayPal is so important for accepting donations for me.
Doesn't paypal also take a cut though?

Btw, besides the other way to transfer money aka, Zelle, I also once heard of something called Transferwise, although, I am not sure because of the last post made as of today, if Transferwise will be affected too at some point.

Blah... not good lol.

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-26, 14:03

frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 03:52
Doesn't paypal also take a cut though?
Of course they do! But it's at least a somewhat manageable percentage. IMHO they don't have to ask as much as they do, but it's still within the "OK I can live with that" range.
frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 03:52
Transferwise
I'd be extremely careful with TransferWise. They got flak for misleading advertising and their CEO is being investigated for tax issues (default). They've also gotten more and more expensive to use in the past years, afaik, so their main selling point (very low rates) is dwindling rapidly.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by frostknight » 2022-11-26, 18:43

Moonchild wrote:
2022-11-26, 14:03
frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 03:52
Doesn't paypal also take a cut though?
Of course they do! But it's at least a somewhat manageable percentage. IMHO they don't have to ask as much as they do, but it's still within the "OK I can live with that" range.

Ah okay, good to know.
frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 03:52
Transferwise
I'd be extremely careful with TransferWise. They got flak for misleading advertising and their CEO is being investigated for tax issues (default). They've also gotten more and more expensive to use in the past years, afaik, so their main selling point (very low rates) is dwindling rapidly.
Hmm... so what you are saying is, I should get any info I was using off of that site and then quit for good?

This actually makes me wonder though, are there "better" ways of doing what transferwise does, without the same issues?

Anywhp, thanks for the warning

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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-11-26, 20:29

frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 18:43
so what you are saying is, I should get any info I was using off of that site and then quit for good?
No, I'm saying to be extremely careful with them. Please don't pull things I say into the extreme.
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Re: Paypal controversy and alternatives

Unread post by frostknight » 2022-11-27, 00:29

Moonchild wrote:
2022-11-26, 20:29
frostknight wrote:
2022-11-26, 18:43
so what you are saying is, I should get any info I was using off of that site and then quit for good?
No, I'm saying to be extremely careful with them. Please don't pull things I say into the extreme.
Yeah, sorry... I very much, get confused by my own lack of focus sometimes regarding understanding of others' thoughts.

By be careful, with them, do you mean transferwise alternatives, as well?

Not sure, but it probably is wise anyhow.

Btw, I recall a while back you said you didn't accept cryptocurrency.

This might be wise, for many reasons, beyond just the instability of the currency, depending on your beliefs.

Supposedly, cryptocurrencies have a heavy impact on the hardware that mines it and the pollution it creates, among other things.

I don't know if this is still your position, but it is wise. Btw, my apologies for my misunderstanding(s)

No hard feelings frome me tho.

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