Thanks for the good work.

General project discussion.
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jlinton
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Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by jlinton » 2022-10-06, 21:33

So, I've generally been unhappy with the direction the mainstream browsers (chrome/firefox/etc) have been going for a few years on desktop platforms. I've been using palemoon for a while in a VM/sandbox, and its been a lot more impressive than I initially imagined from what I generally assumed was mostly a lazy recompile in response to mozilla making poor decisions. But, I've slowly begun to realize that this is a real project with real dedicated people behind it who appear to be in it for the long haul unlike many of the other forks of mainstream browser engines.

And while i've not tried to audit any of the work (web browsers aren't my thing, despite posting fixes for firefox bugs), the changelog is really what drove me to write this, because while a bit cranky it reflects a genuine passion and a professionalism that is lacking in most software projects these days where the changelogs are frequently giant middle fingers to the user base while insulting their intelligence. Most are at the level of "changed some stuff" if not actually written that way (see amd AGESIA for the running joke). But it also reflects what appears to be an inability to _actually_ track what changed beyond a version control commit history which frequently isn't public.

So, two thumbs up! Keep it up.

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andyprough
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-10-07, 00:07

I agree with everything you've said, very well stated. Add both of my thumbs - four thumbs up now. :thumbup: :thumbup:
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moonbat
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-10-07, 04:25

jlinton wrote:
2022-10-06, 21:33
mostly a lazy recompile in response to mozilla making poor decisions.
It started around 2009 as a (not lazy) recompile with compiler optimizations for modern CPUs, then as time went on, Mozilla went on adding more cruft while Pale Moon removed less used features like accessibility support in order to help performance. Eventually as we know, Mozilla abandoned everything that made it good in order to copy Chrome and Pale Moon today is more or less what the original pre 2011 Mozilla might have been, and its true spiritual successor.
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andyprough
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-10-07, 15:48

moonbat wrote:
2022-10-07, 04:25
It started around 2009 as a (not lazy) recompile with compiler optimizations for modern CPUs, then as time went on, Mozilla went on adding more cruft while Pale Moon removed less used features like accessibility support in order to help performance. Eventually as we know, Mozilla abandoned everything that made it good in order to copy Chrome and Pale Moon today is more or less what the original pre 2011 Mozilla might have been, and its true spiritual successor.
This is interesting information, so originally Pale Moon was a straight fork of Firefox for better optimizations, and then just decided not to join Firefox as it discarded XUL?
Off-topic:
By the way, a few days ago Google released a new chrome/chromium version that has a nasty bug that locks up graphics on systems. I ran into it yesterday with Brave while working with a database web portal that is not as Pale Moon friendly. I nearly lost all my work, but I knew enough Linux tricks to be able to kill Brave while leaving my notes and other work open. But Brave wouldn't respond to a normal SIGKILL command, I had to use a nuclear option on it. I need to get rid of Brave as a secondary browser, Google as the upstream has gone insane and is actively harming users, even users of other browsers. I went to the "Known Exploited Vulnerabilities Catalog" kept by a US Government agency, and they are listing 33 zero day exploits for chrome/chromium in the past 3 years alone, which is some kind of record for an individual program. Flash had 32 zero days over a 9 year period.
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Blacklab
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by Blacklab » 2022-10-07, 17:46

andyprough wrote:... so originally Pale Moon was a straight fork of Firefox for better optimizations, and then just decided not to join Firefox as it discarded XUL?
Yes, IIRC Moonchild first created Pale Moon as a faster, lighter version of early Firefox for his friends. I'm not an expert, so happy to be corrected Re: 'fork' definition... but I think you could better describe early 'pre-fork' Pale Moon as a 'recompiled' version of the then current editions of Firefox rather than a fork as such. Much as today's LibreWolf is not a real fork of Firefox... but a recompiled version of almost current Firefox with various modifications, enhanced hardening, all telemetry removed, etc.

I'm sure you can find all the discussions in old forum posts if you wind back about 7-10 years! All history now. :)

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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by Nigaikaze » 2022-10-07, 18:04

Regarding the history of Pale Moon, there's also this link.
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-10-07, 20:37

It seriously needs updating, something I never really got around to yet, but it does give a good recounting of the history up to 2021
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random
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by random » 2022-10-10, 18:38

moonbat wrote:
2022-10-07, 04:25
while Pale Moon removed less used features like accessibility support
that is sad.

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Moonchild
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-10-10, 20:51

random wrote:
2022-10-10, 18:38
that is sad.
Really now? So you think we should maintain and support code for outlandishly rare hardware? That has never been part of Pale Moon's scope. Gamepad, accessibility hardware, parental controls, etc. are not part of Pale Moon's "general use browser" scope. If you need it, then it's just not the correct choice for you. if you don't need it, then there's also no reason to feel sad about it (as you'll never use it).
"The best revenge is to not be like the person who wronged you." -- Marcus Aurelius
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portforeign
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Re: Thanks for the good work.

Unread post by portforeign » 2022-11-23, 09:50

Yes, you have made several excellent points, and I agree with them all. My two thumbs up make a total of four now.

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