What's the point of Epyrus?

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LuftWafflePilot
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What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-09-27, 15:25

The nice developer deleted my perfectly legit comment asking the same thing, so maybe I won't get censored here.

Why do we need yet another mail client when Interlink works perfectly fine?

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-09-27, 15:38

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=28877

Technically speaking, you did break the subforum rules. I've asked people repeatedly not to talk about that topic on my subforum, I just hadn't posted a proper rules thread yet about it.

As for why Epyrus is needed? Well, maybe in your view it is isn't. I personally want nothing to do with the e-mail client you mentioned, and I'm creating Epyrus for others who might feel the same way. Epyrus is not an official project, I decided to create it of my own volition, so I and a few others may well be the only ones that ever use it. Maybe it isn't strictly "needed," but I feel that an alternative should exist and I am willing to put work into it. I don't think more justification for its existence is really needed.

If you are happy with what you're using now, you certainly do not have to use Epyrus.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Potkeny » 2022-09-27, 15:39

I personally need it 'cos I lost trust in the developer of Interlink after what he did, so an alternative is appreciated.

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-09-27, 15:47

athenian200 wrote:
2022-09-27, 15:38
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=28877

Technically speaking, you did break the subforum rules. I've asked people repeatedly not to talk about that topic on my subforum, I just hadn't posted a proper rules thread yet about it.
You can't expect everyone to read tens of pages half related to coding, scouting for some "rules" that don't even exist.
If this is so important, you should have posted the rules before enforcing them. OR better - put a sticky up explaining WHY this is a forbidden topic.
I hardly ever go here, just to check on some news here and there, and I simply noticed someone started creating new client. Is it surprising for anyone to ask himself "huh, why?"

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-09-27, 15:51

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-09-27, 15:47
Is it surprising for anyone to ask himself "huh, why?"
Well, now you know so consider the matter settled? :silent:
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by back2themoon » 2022-09-27, 15:55

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-09-27, 15:25
Why do we need yet another <insert software> when <insert same category software> works perfectly fine?
Your question doesn't make much sense though, does it? Unless whatever works perfectly fine for you, should be the only software available to everyone else.

One email client, one web browser, one media player, one text editor, one OS, etc. etc... :coffee:

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-09-27, 16:34

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-09-27, 15:47
You can't expect everyone to read tens of pages half related to coding, scouting for some "rules" that don't even exist.
I don't expect that, that's why I created the thread. I was just reminded that I needed to do that. ;)
If this is so important, you should have posted the rules before enforcing them. OR better - put a sticky up explaining WHY this is a forbidden topic.
Sorry, is there a rule that I have to post the rules before enforcing them? I don't see that one listed anywhere. :P
I hardly ever go here, just to check on some news here and there, and I simply noticed someone started creating new client. Is it surprising for anyone to ask himself "huh, why?"
No, it's not surprising to ask why. But implying that my e-mail client has to justify its existence because another one already exists isn't exactly an open-minded, curious form of inquiry. You know what I mean? It's almost like asking why Pale Moon is needed if Firefox or SeaMonkey exist.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-09-27, 16:52

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-09-27, 15:47
Is it surprising for anyone to ask himself "huh, why?"
No, not so strange, but why don't you keep that question internal to yourself and do some of your own footwork to answer your own question? You can expect at least some posts explaining why Epyrus was started if you would just take the time to read. Maybe you should take some more time to get well first, I doubt getting upset about forum posts is helpful.

As an aside, Interlink hasn't been updated in almost 4 months; there doesn't seem to be much activity at all in that corner and it doesn't seem to get even minimal maintenance right now. That alone would be a good reason for anyone to consider looking at alternatives.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-09-27, 18:05

I guess "why not" is just as legit answer. I just found it puzzling someone would be willing to spend so much time to reinvent the wheel when the current one is still spinning. But the other post about other browsers existing is just as legit answer too.

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-09-27, 21:52

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2022-09-27, 18:05
I guess "why not" is just as legit answer. I just found it puzzling someone would be willing to spend so much time to reinvent the wheel when the current one is still spinning. But the other post about other browsers existing is just as legit answer too.
These fine folks are too kind to say it more plainly, but Interlink is probably dead. Epyrus is quite nice and has a promising future, I hope you'll try it, it's my favorite email client now. @athenian200 has done a great job and should be thanked, he's worked hard and a lot of us are benefiting already.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by TheRealMaestro » 2022-09-29, 14:57

To answer the original question, presuming it genuine, Interlink’s developer is hostile to localisation. He refuses to support language packs for Interlink, but insists all use his own English dialect (US American). As 97% of the world is not Yankee, this is important. Interlink’s developer was, until March this year, an important developer for Pale Moon, but after a long series of quarrels with others (programmers and users alike: he was known for his vitriol on this board) and subtle attempts to steer Pale Moon’s progress and the community’s nature against its will, had proclaimed in a passion after another dispute over localisation that he would forsake Mozilla technology altogether. He has left the Pale Moon development team and, for a time, had shut down Binary Outcast and Interlink development. Many here, after this hostile, volatile behaviour, cannot trust him with developing their email client. Epyrus seeks to be a UXP-based client free from this personal baggage, with stable and sensible development.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by ag0044 » 2022-09-30, 12:09

For what it is worth (not a lot, to be honest), I've switched to Epyrus, and it works fine for me.

Why am I using Epyrus?
1. Epyrus is part of the Pale Moon "family". Interlink no longer is.
2. Epyrus isn't Interlink.

That doesn't really directly answer the OP's question ... but I hope it does indirectly - especially point 2.

Give Epyrus a go and see what you think.

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Blacklab » 2022-09-30, 12:23

LuftWafflePilot wrote:Why do we need yet another mail client when Interlink works perfectly fine?
Just my personal take on email clients. :) Never having used an email client, except when required to do so in a work or business environment, I'm always slightly puzzled as to why most private individuals bother... at least those with not vast amounts of email traffic? Email straight off the server has always worked flawlessly for the low volume user AFAICS? :think:

Perhaps I've been scarred for life having been forced to use the awful MS Outlook desktop email client... a woeful UI and UX IMO.

Not a negative comment about Epyrus at all... I'm sure its a fine effort and very welcome by those who do use email clients.

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Falna » 2022-09-30, 14:01

Off-topic:
Blacklab wrote:
2022-09-30, 12:23
I'm always slightly puzzled as to why most private individuals bother [with an email client]
To:
  • avoid adverts
  • own your own messages
  • read & reply to messages offline
  • retain messages when changing ISPs
  • have a permanent searchable archive
  • access multiple accounts from multiple servers in one place, using the same UI and tools, drag-and-drop between them...

Forked extensions :
● Add-ons Inspector ● Auto Text Link ● Copy As Plain Text ● Copy Hyperlink Text ● FireFTP button replacement ● gSearch Bar ● Navigation Bar Enhancer ● New Tab Links ● Number Tabs ● Print Preview Button and Keyboard Shortcut 2 ● Scrollbar Search Marker ● Simple Marker ● Tabs To Portfolio ● Update Alert ● Web Developer's Toolbox ● Zap Anything

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2022-09-30, 15:45

On the topic of localisation - I don't rememeber the last time I noticed any difference between us and uk english in a program that had the choice :D The only exception was/is Windows, ironically :D

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-09-30, 18:29

Blacklab wrote:
2022-09-30, 12:23

Just my personal take on email clients. :) Never having used an email client, except when required to do so in a work or business environment, I'm always slightly puzzled as to why most private individuals bother... at least those with not vast amounts of email traffic? Email straight off the server has always worked flawlessly for the low volume user AFAICS? :think:
Well, if I don't run an e-mail client, I tend to forget to check my e-mail, so I would at least need something like Outlook Express, or even the Windows Mail client that comes with Windows 10. And I'm not a big fan of relying on something loaded into a browser and giving me notifications via WebRTC, which is probably what it would take to make webmail work for notifications and such. So if I'm going to use an e-mail client, it might as well be one that I can design according to my liking.

Also, aside from using Pale Moon, the next best thing you can do to avoid Chromium at this point is to use dedicated clients for as many services as you can. E-mail would be a good example of something you can avoid doing on the web. Another example would be that I tend to use Pidgin to access Facebook Messenger, because the client they provide is terrible and won't notify me when people log on, won't be proactive about telling me about messages if I'm not "active" on my PC, and if I accidentally leave Facebook Messenger in focus because I'm waiting on a message, I will get no notifications sometimes because it assumes I'm there.

I have a specific workflow that modern applications don't accommodate well... I like to passively monitor a lot of input streams and react to notifications as they happen. This doesn't work well if I have to be already actively doing stuff to get the notifications. Power saving features are also annoying... if my displays turn off when I'm not using them, then I can't glance over at my computer to monitor a bunch of stuff I have open waiting to see what happens next. The way most things are designed these days isn't very friendly to that.
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-09-30, 19:22

athenian200 wrote:
2022-09-30, 18:29
Blacklab wrote:
2022-09-30, 12:23
Just my personal take on email clients. :) Never having used an email client, except when required to do so in a work or business environment...
Well, if I don't run an e-mail client, I tend to forget to check my e-mail, ...
Off-topic:
Well, I started using e-mail for work, some 23 years ago, and until a few years ago we were running our own MX and SMTP server, so I am used to have e-mail stored on my own machine, and to use a text-oriented mail client (when I'm logged in is always running in a dedicated terminal window, never used biff or alike) ... actually in my life I used two MUAs only, VM Rice mailer on IBM mainframes and Pine/Alpine on Unixes/Linux. Even now that my organization moved to Gsuite, I use fetchmail every 5 min to retrieve mail locally, and clean Gsuite's Bin daily ... only spam stays there :D
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Blacklab » 2022-09-30, 20:25

Thanks to Falna, athenian200, and Lucio Chiappetti for your thoughts and comments. :)

We can all get stuck in a 'fur lined rut' in many aspects of our lives... and maybe I should have tried using email clients long ago?

I suspect I became accustomed to using email straight off the server when I had to use many different public computers to access the web... a long time ago now... before home internet connections and smartphones became a ubiquitous part of modern life!

I note Falna's 6 x 'pro-email client' bullet-points above.. all true I'm sure... but I think I manage pretty well without:
1. I see no Ads whatsoever (gorhill's wonderful uBO + many excellent filter list maintainers + uBO's superb element blocker!)
2. I could download all message history if required. I prune emails frequently... and print anything vital to .docx or .pdf.
3. The few longer documents I need to work on offline I write on Word... then either attach as a PDF or copy into an email.
4. As 2. above.
5. My whole archive is searchable on the server too. (Any essential 'permanent' items are copied off as 2. above.)
6. No doubt useful for heavy email users. As a low volume user I only use one main email account and the odd burner.

I can see athenian200's workflow needs are much heavier and very different from my own. I don't have any need to be available to respond quickly to incoming emails... and if people really need to contact me urgently then there's always mobile or landline phone (how quaint :) ).

I also 'cheat'... in that I have my email account linked to my iPhone's email app... thus, I'm continually alerted (disturbed?) by 'Notification' pings... which have trained and conditioned me like the very best of 'Good Boy' Pavlovian dogs... so much so I have to turn the wretched machine off to get some peace!
Last edited by Blacklab on 2022-09-30, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-09-30, 20:39

Interesting reading all people's takes on mail client use.
I'm a very heavy e-mail user, always have been as it's been one of the earliest and always constant forms of communication for me for decades (heck I started off my stuff with a BBS and fido mail...). A quick check of my active mailbox sizes including the in-client archives (that Epyrus is handing beatifully, by the way!) it's pretty much 5 GB. And no, I don't archive every e-mail notification i get ;P
I use a mix of IMAP (server-stored) mail and POP3 (client-stored) mail, depending on whether the account should be private (POP3) or more accessible from other locations as well (IMAP).
I have a fundamental problem with ads in webmail interfaces. Not because of the ads themselves but because of the fact that it inherently means that you have 3rd party active content in the same page as your private communication. That is very risky. I don't like the risk of an advertiser becoming privy to my mail content, so I prefer to not use webmail with any of the ad-supported providers.

Also, keeping everything on a mail provider's server will provide access by the service operators to your mail (and in turn to any third party they grant access to it, which may be mandated in some situations). I don't mind the postman delivering my mail and knowing my address, but they have no business reading my letters, you know what I mean?

So yeah my default access is and has always been through a mail client. This was also imperative when I had to use per-minute-charged dial-up internet in the past. I couldn't read and write everything on-line, it would have bankrupted me :)
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Re: What's the point of Epyrus?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-10-01, 07:14

Off-topic:
athenian200 wrote:
2022-09-30, 18:29
I tend to use Pidgin to access Facebook Messenger
How do you do that? It doesn't list Messenger in the list of supported accounts when I try to add a new one. And now Google has turned off their XMPP transport so Google Chat no longer works either :(
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