Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

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Pause
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Re: Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

Unread post by Pause » 2022-08-09, 14:21

What a bizarre situation.

It's good that the update solves it, but ridiculous that it is deemed necessary by them for obvious fair-use (and similar legal equivalents) screenshots in the first place.

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Re: Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-08-09, 15:34

Pause wrote:
2022-08-09, 14:21
What a bizarre situation.

It's good that the update solves it, but ridiculous that it is deemed necessary by them for obvious fair-use (and similar legal equivalents) screenshots in the first place.
It really is.

Just read through this policy, it will disgust anyone from a country where the matter of Fair Use is as clear on this matter as the US:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Fair_use

I mean, in the United States at least, we draft most of our licenses/legal agreements with the assumption of Fair Use principles in mind, and in my view rightly so. Willfully choosing to interpret every contract and legal issue as if those concepts didn't exist (unless we explicitly state within the agreement HOW we intended Fair Use to impact the nature of the agreement when we drafted it, I guess), and applying Debian Linux-style purity standards is pretty much what they do over there. It's just another place for the FOSS community to engage in Stallman-esque intellectual circlejerks about what "freedom" means, and exercise power over people.

Their reasoning is that the principle of Fair Use "isn't universal." Well, perhaps not, but that hardly justifies ignoring the assumptions that people writing contracts make in countries where it does apply. Of course in practice, it just becomes their own excuse for their own twisted censorship of everything that isn't "free" enough. I bet that site attracts all the most toxic people.

I bet I know why they didn't impose this policy on English Wikipedia... they knew that if they tried people would get mad and potentially create forks of Wikipedia and rebel against such an unreasonable standard. But instead it's now imposed through the "back door" on other language versions of Wikipedia that those who speak English usually aren't watching and won't know to be outraged about.

Sorry if that comes off as a bit of a rant, it's just... the more I read their policies, the more I do not like how they operate and find it upsetting that they have a monopoly over images on some versions of Wikipedia.
"There are two sentences inscribed upon the Ancient oracle... 'Know thyself' and 'Nothing too much'; and upon these all other precepts depend." -- Plutarch

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Re: Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

Unread post by Pelican » 2022-08-11, 06:53

I don't know how any of you can get edits approved on Wikimedia or Wikipedia when their rules prevent anyone from contributing/editing content if they have a vested interest, regardless of how remote that may be. That rule is so open ended that because I have an interest in the Internet and that I know much about how it works, that I cannot contribute that knowledge without citing references published by people who know a lot less.

What sparked this comment was reading that MoonChild said that "being the copyright owner and saying that use of a screen shot is ok, then it should be ok". I don't think that their moderators think like that and the suggestion that MoonChild may have edited anything about Pale Moon will set off alarm bells with the nutters that I have dealt with in the past.

While Wikipedia could be a useful source of information, I no longer trust it after encountering the mentality of its moderators and seeing that it has become a collection of misinformation for topics of my own expertise.

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Re: Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2022-08-11, 07:26

I'm also surprised that nobody in Wikipedia AFAIK complained that Moonchild may be violating the "conflict of interest" policy. Maybe the fact that Pale Moon is an open-source project helps I guess, since it's usually hard to see a COI for such cases, and Wikipedia seems to just be biased against purely proprietary software when it comes to COI.

It wouldn't be a big deal though if they noticed and tell Moonchild to just put his suggestions on the talk page for every major change he wants to do to the article (and I do see some major changes by Moonchild from time-to-time). There will always be a volunteer among us who will put such edits. I wouldn't be violating COI because I'm not really part of the Pale Moon project. I may be a biased volunteer, yes, but I do try my best to adhere to Wikipedia's "neutral point of view" policy.
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Re: Wiki sites to remove Pale Moon screenshots

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-08-11, 07:54

jobbautista9 wrote:
2022-08-11, 07:26
It wouldn't be a big deal though if they noticed and tell Moonchild to just put his suggestions on the talk page for every major change he wants to do to the article (and I do see some major changes by Moonchild from time-to-time). There will always be a volunteer among us who will put such edits. I wouldn't be violating COI because I'm not really part of the Pale Moon project.
That is exactly what I have done.
While I wrote the initial page (after no less than 6 reviews and rewrites finally approved, way back when) most of the edits that were substantial have always been community-contributed, often even unprompted by me. They pretty much permanently marked it as "needing improvement" as well despite approving it, which has always been annoying.

So there is no conflict of interest here. I just want the page to be accurate - it's pretty long-standing of an article as it is.
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