So PM is better in Linux for me

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Disil07
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So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Disil07 » 2022-06-25, 13:13

Just tried Pale Moon on Linux Mint, and it is much better than the Windows version in loading everything :P. I just install LM on my laptop, and adding Stevepusser gtk3 PPA. Im not familiar with Linux program system (like the package manager), so I just add the GTk2 and gtk3 ppa.

Btw which one would be better, gtk2 or gtk3? I don't even know what that mean :crazy:

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-25, 13:19

They're about the same, honestly.

The main difference you'll notice is that if you're using an old GTK2 theme, the GTK2 version of PM looks better. If you're using a GTK3 theme, the GTK3 version of PM looks a little better. It really depends on your desktop environment and what theme you picked, basically.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-06-25, 14:11

You are probably better off using the GTK3 version.
It doesn't change anything for the browser itself, but under certain situations, one of them being described by athenian200, the GTK2 version might have issues.

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Night Wing » 2022-06-25, 16:21

I've always used GTK2 for years and years with linux Pale Moon in linux Mint. Never had a problem with linux Pale Moon with GTK2.

Since I just picked up an old (circa 2016) 15" Dell laptop (i7 processor with a 2.50 processor speed, 16 GB of ram memory), I forget the model at this time, Mint 21 should be ready for public release around July 7th (in my opinion). Just before I install Mint 21, I will put the newest linux Pale Moon on the Dell which is running Mint 20.3 and try out GTK3.

This way if I don't care for GTK3, I will use GTK2 on Mint 21since I always do a new install and not an overwrite of (20.3).
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Nuck-TH » 2022-06-25, 16:57

Aside from styling, difference is in compatibility with NPAPI plugins. Many of them are compiled for GTK2 and won't work on GTK3 Pale Moon build.

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by distantpluto » 2022-06-25, 17:24

Personally, it's down to aesthetics. I don't use a DE, just roll my own and GTK3 looks hideous (yes I've tried all the themes). I install GTK2 versions of everything where possible. Admittedly it's getting harder but Pale Moon is one of the delights.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-06-25, 19:52

I don't use a DE myself (I run fvwm window manager) and use the GTK2 version because it's the only one I can easily control the background colour and font of the buttons (for the rest I use the default theme). There should be tracks on the forum of a thread about this started from a question of mine.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Night Wing » 2022-06-25, 21:42

Below is just 'food for thought" and I'm really shooting in the dark since I'm not a power user in linux and I could be way off base on this.

Isn't GTK2 getting kind of old? Lots of linux distros are fine with GTK3 and (I think) Mint is one of them.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-25, 22:14

Night Wing wrote:
2022-06-25, 21:42
Isn't GTK2 getting kind of old? Lots of linux distros are fine with GTK3 and (I think) Mint is one of them.
It is. In fact, technically GTK4 is already out. GTK3 is considered the "stable" version at this point. Then again, older GUI frameworks have historically lingered around... there's still some ancient applications out there using Motif that everyone complains about, and that's even older. I imagine GTK2 could become the new Motif at some point. Something that people grudgingly keep around to compile older applications and bugfix if they have to, but otherwise don't want to touch.

I suspect the real pain will come if Wayland is universally adopted by Linux distros and X11 backwards compatibility is dropped. That would make it harder to run anything except one of the major DEs and their compositor. But as long as X11 is still a thing on Linux (even if only as a compatibility layer on top of Wayland), I imagine GTK2 will continue to exist as well.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-06-25, 22:41

Wayland is one of the issues I talked about.
Strictly speaking there is XWayland, but compared to to an actual X server is rather inferior.
In fact, looking at it after all these years Wayland isn't that great compared to X; the real advantage is removing some middleware, but it's not really enough to carry the rest of the features.
I'm a bit sad about it, because I had great expectations for it when it was getting rolled out on distros.

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-06-25, 22:55

If they hadn't made such a mess of Wayland by trying to be "new and cool" and breaking with X11 in ways nobody was ready for, it might have seen a much smoother adoption.
But as it is, people are simply not wanting to take 1 step forward and 3 steps back in terms of usability.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by jangdonggun1234 » 2022-06-26, 07:17

As someone who have experienced Pale Moon from version 26 to 31 on Windows, 31 uses much less CPU, RAM than previous versions even with many addons installed and enabled. Dunno why but usually after a 24h browsing session, previous Pale Moons usually reach 1.2GB to 2.4GB RAM, but version 31 only reached 300-600MB so far, and idle CPU usually in range 0%-15%, ofc some websites like Live Mail still cause massive problem but I just open them in Thunderbird instead.

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-06-26, 14:06

jangdonggun1234 wrote:
2022-06-26, 07:17
ofc some websites like Live Mail still cause massive problem but I just open them in Thunderbird instead
With Live Mail I've found that I have to have the User Agent mode set as "Firefox Compatibility". Hope that helps. Otherwise Live Mail should work well - open a Live Mail thread if you continue having trouble and maybe we can help.
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2022-06-27, 11:15

Moonchild wrote:
2022-06-25, 22:55
If they hadn't made such a mess of Wayland by trying to be "new and cool" and breaking with X11 in ways nobody was ready for, it might have seen a much smoother adoption.
But as it is, people are simply not wanting to take 1 step forward and 3 steps back in terms of usability.
At least it takes a few steps forward in terms of security and it fixes my issues with screen tearing. The only issue I've had is my mouse cursor being inconsistent across applications and almost impossible to change, but I did it by changing some system files and all works well now.
Android sucks, it's just linux but every phone has a custom kernel that never gets updated...
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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by Nuck-TH » 2022-06-27, 12:14

leothetechguy wrote:
2022-06-27, 11:15
At least it takes a few steps forward in terms of security and it fixes my issues with screen tearing. The only issue I've had is my mouse cursor being inconsistent across applications and almost impossible to change, but I did it by changing some system files and all works well now.
Off-topic:
One step forward, two multiple steps back. More than 10 years passed, and it is nowhere near stable daily driver state. But wow, tearing is fixed. In this time they could refactor xorg into maintainable state(if it isn't) and roll out X12(if issues with X11 is so severe as they tell, which i doubt), but no, lets invent the wheel again...
Sigh...

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Re: So PM is better in Linux for me

Unread post by leothetechguy » 2022-06-27, 18:59

Off-topic:
I'm just saying that it works well for me and I can use it as a usable daily driver, feel free to share your experience, but don't just make claims about it being unusable for everyone and quote me with a sarcasm tag. Waylands changes over Xorg, like combining display server and compositor (Why would you run an extra compositor if Xorg already displays something) and isolating inputs between clients make a lot of sense to me, nothing that makes it inherently worse than Xorg. (other than stopping inactive windows from detecting key presses)
Android sucks, it's just linux but every phone has a custom kernel that never gets updated...
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